Running: good or bad?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by sureshs, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    To be frank, I run a little before playing tennis to warm up, and then I try to play singles as much as possible to make me run.

    I picked up one of those free junk magazines to read during lunch and it turned out to be a racing and marathon magazine. In a sarcastic article, a writer wants a Bill of Rights for runners because of how they are looked at. Joking aside, one of his complaints was about people coming up to runners and telling them "Don't you know running is bad for your knees?"

    Going by the number of people who seem to need knee and hip replacement surgeries while leading ordinary lives, why would someone increase the chances of wearing out your joints? Is running a good idea or a bad one? The magazine seems to be supported by advertisements from foot doctors.
     
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  2. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Bad idea!!!!

    The only exception is doing HIIT barefoot on an elliptical.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
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  3. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Just found this the other day on running and osteoarthritis - haven't studied it yet
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556152/

    I'd like to see more similar studies.

    I believe that warming up by moderate running for a few minutes before tennis is a big plus.
     
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  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    What? You wanna live foreever? Starship Troopers.
    Do you want to SAVE your body, never do anything athletic, until you're 65?, so you can be an OLD athlete? Competing in the old man's class?
    Should we mummify you right now? So you'll look good when you die?
    Are you sure you're gonna be around to reap the benefits of healthy knees when you're older?
    Are you sure the world will be around to reap the benefits of your healthy knees when you''re older.
    Live for tomorrow? Or live for today?
    For sure, lots of kids today are saving their knees by staying home in front of their computer games.
     
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  5. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    I like to walk/jog to warm up before tennis (I too prefer singles) but I'm fortunate that next to the courts is a cushioned track so it is much easier on the joints. I wouldn't run on cement though to save wear and tear as I near forty. The problems didn't seem to start until after I lost access to a red clay court.
     
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  6. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I try to run on grass (courts are in a park).

    Does running on a treadmill also do the same amount of damage?
     
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  7. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    I don't think running on a treadmill is as harsh but if you have access to an elliptical I was told by my sports doctor that was the way to go for minimum wear and tear as I came back from Achilles tendinitis.
     
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  8. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Nailed it!

    You don't need to run a lot of miles unless you love doing so. Seems that you can get the health (though perhaps not the competitive fitness) benefits from walking the same amount of time that you'd spend jogging.

    For tennis, I say sprint (barefoot after fasting for 30 days) rather than jog. Jogging is boring!
     
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  9. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I think there is a trade-off. Running is good for cardio and weight loss, and weight loss will reduce the stress on the knees. But running will increase the wear and tear.
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Eating can wear out your jaw muscles, so later in life, it get's harder and harder to chew foods that don't immediately melt in your mouth.
     
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  11. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

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  12. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Running is fine when done in moderation.

    Why, I ran just today. I want to work on my speed so I ran intervals at the track.

    I run, but when I get around more sedentary family members, they like to point out how unhealthy it is. They say this while ingesting fish oil pills, blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, cholesterol meds, and snake oil for their ailing joints.

    My daughter has taken up running, and a friend's mom said she doesn't run because runners always have a grimace on their faces. My daughter replied that is the same facial expression that non-runners have from going up one flight of stairs.
     
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  13. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    My office is on the 3rd floor these days, and most of my work is between the 1st and 6th floors. I try to use the stairs as much as possible.
     
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  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Stairs are great.. up is great..down is dangerous.
     
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  15. rk_sports

    rk_sports Hall of Fame

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    Don't think just running is bad for your knees.. but the way you run... we heard it before... heel striking + concrete/hard surfaces seems to be the worst!

    Does Foot Form Explain Running Injuries?


    haha! that's a classic LeeD ;-)
     
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  16. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Interesting read, thank you. It corresponds with an experiment made here in Denmark I was a part of, where the result said that habitual barefoot runners experienced less shock from running than habitual shoe runners, and this was found to be true both running in shoes or barefoot in the experiment.
     
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  17. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    running

    What I do now is train for a marathon but don't run it. I have read from docs is running a marathon puts too much stress on your heart. Also I run on a treadmill and get two new pairs of shoes every 3 months. Switching between 2 pair is like having 3 pairs. I run 8 miles everyday and have no problems with my knee, back or feet. Running outside is fun but running down hill puts alot of stress on your knee plus unleashed dogs, potholes, bathroom breaks heat, cold and rain to deal with. Plus I get a better run inside since I don't have to stop and wait for a stop light every 1/4 mile. I also get to watch tv while running on a treadmill.
     
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  18. PrimeChoice

    PrimeChoice New User

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    This guys a Guru so I say don't waste u'r time running. Really if you think about it, it all depends on what time you're going to DIE. duhh. Cause that's what really matters, and no one can predict that unless you're Kurt Kobain bro.
     
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  19. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrOgDCZ4GUo&feature=channel&list=UL

    His other 5 videos are interesting as well. For example, look at what an awful gait this joker has. No doubt he'll never be a good runner and will get hurt soon if he tries to run over a mile:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAW87NsiGuI&list=ULXrOgDCZ4GUo&index=3
     
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  20. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    Running could be overall good for you and not harmful to your joints ...

    IF

    you are not overweight, have not had a previous knee joint injury/known osteoarthritis already, and don't lean backward so you have a pronounced heel strike.

    Fairly strong leg muscles from doing closed chain weightlifting (squats, deadlifts) seems to actually be protective of joints - at least not if getting into very high weight lifting.



    Here's the conclusions of a fairly recent review article that may be of interest:

    "Conclusions:

    Impact loads [jumping] are the most likely to result in injury to articular cartilage.
    Having well-developed muscles decreases the loading on the cartilage and thus has a protective effect.
    Animal research suggests that exercise--at least when done in the form of running--is not harmful to normal joints even under high loads and over long distances.
    In contrast, similar exercise of an injured joint leads to arthritic change.
    The literature suggests that in humans, athletic activity is associated with a slightly increased risk of osteoarthritis.
    Athletic individuals seem to tolerate similar radiographic levels of osteoarthritis with less disability than nonathletic individuals.
    Joint injury is the primary factor that increases the risk of arthritis developing in athletes. [More likely in contact sports.]

    Activities that maintain flexibility, muscle strength, and coordination protect the cartilaginous surfaces and help to maintain joint function in joints that have already been injured and in which arthritic changes have developed or are developing. The forms of exercise that meet these criteria include bicycling, weightlifting (with emphasis on closed-kinetic-chain exercises), and pool exercises.

    A good program to start with is an exercise bike with the seat positioned high and with resistance set to a low level. After the patient is able to spend 20 minutes on the bike, the seat may be lowered to deepen flexion, and the level of resistance may be increased. The patient may then add leg presses using a low weight and with a high number of repetitions (start with 20 repetitions at a time). Patients may progressively add weight to the leg press until lifting to their tolerance. I tell them to avoid knee extensions despite the fact that these machines are found everywhere. Reactive forces on the patellofemoral joint exceed body weight, even when light weights are used. For patients without access to exercise equipment, straight-leg raises are a good start. Wall sits are a substitute for leg presses, although it is often difficult for patients to start out with wall sits because they cannot exercise using less than their body weight. Patients should also work on a stretching program to maintain full extension of the knee.

    For patients who have suffered a significant injury to the knee but who do not have arthritis, activities that include prolonged, repetitive impact (eg, distance running) are not the best choice for maintaining fitness. Other activities that the patient enjoys and that maintain physical strength and flexibility are probably acceptable if they do not cause pain. The best choices are bicycling, swimming, and weightlifting. Runners usually find this recommendation difficult to accept; many dedicated runners do not feel that any other activity makes them feel as good as running does. Sometimes a difficult decision must be made, however, and they must recognize that they exercise for many reasons and that the possibility that arthritis may develop may be offset by the cardiovascular benefit and the sense of well-being that they get from running. Doing any exercise--even one that is not especially recommended--is better than doing no exercise. If the choice were running or nothing, I would run."
    - http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejournal/Fall00/Osteoarthritis.html
     
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  21. PrimeChoice

    PrimeChoice New User

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    if u got cartilage go for it! Make it happen!
     
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  22. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    For those wishing to understand the effects of exercise on joints...

    Consider:

    The thick layers of cartilage at joints do provide a measure of shock absorbtion.

    Although most of cartilage is composed of material that is not living, the cells interspersed throughout the cartilage are still capable of manufacturing more of the material making up the cartilage, as well as the quality of that cartilage.

    Mechanical loads that are not excessive stimulate the cells in cartilage to secrete more cartilage. [By excessive I mean plyometric jumping.]

    "3.1. Moderate Mechanical Loading Plays a Role in Normal Tissue Remodelling
    Several investigators have used a range of approaches to examine the effect of moderate exercise in maintaining cartilage homeostasis (Table 2). Indeed, there is sound evidence that individuals engaging in regular activity are less prone to incidence of OA, since frequent dynamic loading in the physiological range will increase cartilage thickness and maintain normal cartilage integrity [36, 37]. There is also evidence that exercise therapy in the form of aerobic and strengthening activities reduced pain and disability, enhances GAG content, and protects against cartilage degeneration in subjects with knee OA [4, 38–41]. However, the protective effect of recreational exercise has been reported to be dependent on a number of risk factors including age, body mass index, history of knee injury, smoking, and education [42–44]. Clinical observations suggest that healthy subjects as well as OA patients, in general, can pursue a high level of physical activity, provided that the activity is not painful and does not predispose to trauma [45].

    In most animal studies, load bearing exercise minimises the development of OA. For example, daily exercise increased proteoglycan content and cartilage thickness in hamster and rodent models [26, 50]. In dogs, moderate exercise augments GAG content particularly in younger animals [51, 52]. In hamsters, early joint loading advances the maturation of matrix proteins, improved the integrity of the collagen network and the tissue resistance against OA in older animals [53–56]. In general, exercise and loading of joints within a physiological range appears to have beneficial effects over normal day to day activities characterised by modest movement. The anabolic changes induced by exercise appear to enhance the load bearing properties of cartilage and may help explain how lifelong physical activity protects the joint from OA during later periods in life."
    - http://www.hindawi.com/journals/arth/2011/979032/
     
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  23. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Charlie does it again...

    I loved being in good running shape back in the "warrior years", but the most important component of my off-court fitness work lately has been riding a bicycle. Two or three rides a week keeps my legs - especially my knees - are night and day more happy. I've also noticed over recent years that a few of the pros mention cycling in their fitness work so that they can avoid unwanted extra pounding.

    I do remember that I was never faster on a tennis court than after my soccer seasons back in high school. Now that I have a couple months to winter over, I'm thinking of also running a good steep hill near my house to see how that treats me (not ready to take up with soccer again). Details a eleven...
     
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  24. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Variation of feeling in the knees - story from a guy at the US Open

    I had a conversation with a guy at the US Open. He was about 70 years old. He had had a meniscus operation which is usually a partial meniscectomy, or removal of a percentage of the damaged meniscus. He had had a very considerable percentage removed.

    His Dr told him that for similar knee operations, because of the nerve locations in or near the knee joint, often one of two conditions results for exercises such as running or tennis:

    1) either considerable pain, or

    2) little pain.

    In his case, he did not have much pain and could play.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articular_cartilage_damage - for articular cartilage
    "As cartilage is aneural and avascular (lack of nerve and blood supply, respectively), shallow damage often does not trigger pain."

    Painwise he was OK playing but because of his discussions with his Dr he knew that he was doing damage. He quit tennis after playing for a few/some months.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
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  25. F. Perry

    F. Perry Banned

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    My knees started feeling tweaky a couple years ago and I read a short book on the subject. One of the things the book said was studies show a lot of people confuse weak quads with bad knees.
     
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  26. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Rookie

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    Every addicted runner I know has had ACL issues. Then they keep running anyway, until they get injured again.
     
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