Ryan Harrison Out Of The Top 100

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Cfidave, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

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    Just noticed that Ryan Harrison has fallen out of the top 100, while Steve Johnson and Jack Sock take thier places in the top 100. Harrison is defending 90 points at Newport this week with a first round match against Isner. At this rate Ryan's brother may well be ranked ahead of him in the near future.
     
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  2. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    Yeah, Harrison is a guy that us hacks can relate to. Unfortunately. Good serve, solid groundstrokes, moves pretty well and is generally well rounded technically. But I don't understand his shot selection. You can tell that he rushes his shots and bails out of clearly defensive positions, by trying to hit super high risk shots. You can clearly see these issues develop during a point. I cringe at times.

    Hope he can get it together or he will be spending time playing Donald Young.
     
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  3. pingu

    pingu Semi-Pro

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    He needs a tough coach like Lendl to straight him up. I think the problem is in his head.
     
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  4. WARPWOODIE

    WARPWOODIE Rookie

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    Yawn...not a surprise :-( He's just another USTA hyped up player. Sad reality is that, he should have gone to college (would have been a great D-1 player at some top University) like Isner did,...at least he would have a fall back plan.
     
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  5. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Ryan Harrison will upset the top seed today and win the Hall of fame tournament this week. watch on Tennis channel
     
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  6. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    strong kid, big serve, ability to hit big shots, ability to be aggressive and come to the net, good volleys......

    ....but he grinds like a 14 year old pusher playing a jr tournament.
     
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  7. uncooling

    uncooling Semi-Pro

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    he's just not a talented guy. He already maximized his potential and it's just sad he is the future of American tennis along with Donald Young.
     
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  8. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I didn't even know he made the top 100. He will probably move above and below 100 for a while. I thought most people considered his brother the better prospect anyway - at least until he got injured.
     
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  9. Ace of Aces

    Ace of Aces Rookie

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    Sock, Kudla, and Johnson all have more effective games styles than Harrison. He stand 5 miles behind the baseline and puts way more spin than needed on his forehand. It's like a guy with Hewitts power and Gasquets court positioning.
     
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  10. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

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    I often wonder what the USTA training center is doing for these guys. The era of big serve, big forehand is no longer enough to get to the top in men's tennis. You look at the top guys, and you really don't see them using just one or two strengths to win matches. They have the ability to hurt you in so many ways. The guy that just won Wimbledon has an 80mph second serve!

    I would like to see us get some of these young guys thinking less about power and more about effectiveness.
     
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  11. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    Can we give Lendl Pmac's job at the USTA since he seem to know how to develop players?

    Just asking...
     
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  12. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    right. those USTA coaches he gets free are total incompetent fools. their combined IQ was total of 99. would you believe that ??:???:
     
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  13. WARPWOODIE

    WARPWOODIE Rookie

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    The quote below was from 2008. I think that USTA and in particular...Patrick McEnroe says this things more out of desperation :-? If he's out of the top 100, he's regressing not progressing.

    "Harrison moved to the front of the line in the “next big thing” sweepstakes. Within hours, the words “Top 10 potential” were being heard, and they were coming from the lips of those who should know. “He’s got the head for the game, and he’s got the firepower,” says Patrick McEnroe, General Manager of USTA Player Development, who saw Harrison up close during Davis Cup workouts in Colombia last fall. McEnroe was impressed, as much as anything, with Harrison’s second serve, a key shot at the highest levels of the game. “It’s already unbelievable,” McEnroe says. “He really goes after it.”
     
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  14. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    I believe that the fish rots from the the head. It's time for a change, unless the
    USTA is truly not interested in Player Development. Which they seem to be.

    Or change the title of the office to Player Marketing.
     
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  15. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

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    Patrick McEnroe is probably the worst thing that could happen to the USTA program. He is quick to hype a player like Harrison, praise his so called power and aggression, when he should be developing all court skills. If anyone should be able to appreciate how a well rounded game can beat mindless ball bashing, it shoud be Patrick. He has a brother named John, who did pretty well.
     
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  16. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Beyond the grinding, I just don't see the elite level shots that would make him a consistent presence in the Top 30 or above. Big serve and forehand are also owned by a ton of other players. Of course he's a great player - he's been near the Top 50 and has been in the Top 100. But what about him suggests the next level?
     
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  17. pingu

    pingu Semi-Pro

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    I think the USTA needs a completely overhaul.
     
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  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    How many players has Lendl developed? Lendl took over when Murray was fully settled in his strokes with years of training in Spain and US. He is a fine-tuning guy, not a player development guy.

    I am constantly amazed at the number of rec players who seem to make a living criticizing the USTA. Why not go beat one of the top players being trained in the USTA centers and prove your caliber?
     
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  19. dirtballer

    dirtballer Professional

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    Harrison always seemed robotic to me - good drilling skills but little improvisation skills.
     
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  20. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    ---------------------------------
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
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  21. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He was a top doubles and singles player and a DC captain. Unlike other corporate jobs (and I will not even talk about Ellison spending the entire week at Indian Wells), the sports job at ESPN gives him total access to the players and their performances and the statistics. What is he supposed to do otherwise? Feed balls to Taylor Townsend during Wimbledon?

    Mind you I was the first to get upset by the way he treated her and then fled once the backlash started. But I don't dump all things into one basket.
     
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  22. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    BS. He is a talented guy who doesn't understand how to build points/games/sets. He needs a good coach.
     
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  23. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    When you can beat a top 100 player at age 15, on their favorite surface, you dont go to college.

    Harrison's gotten to the 2nd/3rd rd pretty consistently at slams as well. Beat Ljubicic at the US Open a yr or two ago. Made two semis in a row in the US Open Series a couple yrs ago.

    Yes, he's in a slump right now, but, that shouldnt detract from all of the accomplishments he's had. 2-3 yrs ago when he was doing well, no one was suggesting he should have gone to college.
     
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  24. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    I don't need to eat horse crap to know it won't taste good.

    The USTA has been nothing more that a hype factory of late. Wayne Bryan's letter to the USTA not only provided criticism, but a potential roadmap for the USTA. But instead of, at the very least, entertaining those ideas, the USTA got its back up because someone dare to suggest they could be doing a better job.



    The problem is there are examples provided by Spain and France on the development of players that can at least compete to win slams.
     
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  25. Down_the_line

    Down_the_line Legend

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    Wooo! Sorry, there's not one tennis player I dislike more.
     
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  26. Down_the_line

    Down_the_line Legend

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    That's true, but the funny thing is - with the exception of Nadal - it seems like all the champions of late on the men's side hail from countries without a large development program that's constantly churning out players. Look at Murray. He's a one man army. Federer? He's got Wawrinka with him in the top 10 and that's it. Djokovic? I know Serbia has made a bit of a rise in tennis but to my knowledge, besides Zimonjic in doubles, he stood alone when he first came on the scene and he's since been joined by Tipsarevic and Troicki. Good players to be sure, but nowhere close to being champions.

    I don't know, it's just curious. It seems being bred by a tennis factory, so to speak, is more of a hindrance. I imagine in that scenario the training is more structured; everyone learns the same way. On the other hand, imagine Federer in the little nation of Switzerland having coaches helping him hone HIS talent and HIS game style because he's pretty much the only focus. It almost makes sense.
     
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  27. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Harrison playing Great right now against Isner at hall of fame. about to win the 1st set against top 20 player..
     
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  28. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Harrison shows everything that is wrong the USTA nowadays. Instead of working on his weaknesses they try to overpower his strengths and use crappy cover up tactics. The guy had an explosive yet unpredictable forehand at a young age. IN that match where be beat Raonic he would either blast 90mph winners or blast 90mph errors. What does the USTA do? Turns into some pusher piece of crap. He know hits the Roddick loop (which seems to be the new US tennis standard) but has no depth really on it, and clearly it does not suit his style.

    He was very interesting to watch circa 2011, he had a handful of weapons that needed to be tuned. Now he suffers from horrible shot selection, complete lack of power on the forehand wing, and a game that seems completely unfinished and unrefined. Honestly I prefered when he played his game to this coached crap and he had much better results
     
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  29. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Uh huh, won 0 points in that tiebreak...
     
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  30. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

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    Two guys that have two shots, and little else. An example of the problem with " our " style of tennis. If you can't beat them with the serve and forhand, now what? Isner, somewhat understandable, given his size and lack of mobility. Players like Harrison have the potential to be trained to have a far more dynamic game, but for some reason are not.
     
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  31. TheRed

    TheRed Professional

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    Agree. Not sure what ppl see as a "big" forehand. Anyone on tour has a big forehand if he closes his eyes and takes a big swing. This is essentially what Harrison does and, it's not even that big. He has no directional control and frequently leaves it short. He sucks. Average hands. Serve is top 20 though. Worst part is the brain. He's right up there with James Blake for lack of game plan.
     
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  32. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Yet, Blake has achieved monumentally more during his career, which is interesting. Maybe because Blake's forehand was actually "big" compartively to other players, and, because Blake never, ever grinded (only playing defense when forced) Sure, his lack of a Plan B or lack of willingess in some matches to wait a few more shots before going for the knockout punch, or his lack of better decision making maybe prevented him from doing even better. But, 3 Slam QFs, 4 4th Rnds, 2 Masters finals, a YEC appearance, 10 overall titles (and 24 finals), and wins over some top players isn't anything to sneeze at.

    I point all of this out to illustrate how seemingly similar players are actually quite different. Maybe Blake can justifiably be accused of a "lack of a game plan" like Harrison. But, if that's true, it worked much, much better for Blake, and there must be some reason for that.
     
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  33. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    What about the players coached by the great coaches who always criticize the USTA, cheered on by the parents? Surely with all the crap USTA coaching, the students of these great coaches would be at the top and we would not even be talking about Ryan Harrison at all?

    Talk is cheap. Only results matter.
     
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  34. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Just getting back from HOf now, Harrison played well in the 1st set, got schooled in the tiebreak and got broken early in the 2nd.

    It was hot, super hot and humid at one point Ryan sailed a ball out of center court but was not penalized oddly by the umpire. Overall tho he kept his composure throughout. Isner was on fire, serve touched 140 a couple of times he likely would have beaten any player in the world today.

    Ryan has big game, needs a proper coach. There is still time far from hopeless IMHO.
     
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  35. Cormorant

    Cormorant Professional

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    Harrison doesn't know whether he's coming or going when playing Isner recently. Big John seemed a decent gauge of a resurgent Ryan at the French, now Harrison's out of the top 100 and having it compounded by a comprehensive loss to his compatriot.
     
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  36. jack crack

    jack crack New User

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    I think being labeled and hyped as the next big thing inAmerican mens tennis is a jinx. To me RH has great potential but is too cocky. But what do I know? I think the American that really has the stuff is Querry.
     
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  37. PennAlum

    PennAlum Rookie

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    egn and TheRed, you guys are right, his forehand sucks. It frequently lands short with no directional control. This is the current state of American junior tennis forehands. 95% of the teaching pro in the US teach an open stance compact back swing forehand that they see Nadal hit. However none of the American juniors have any upper body torque, they use all arm. They don't don't drive through the ball. They park themselves in the ad corner and try to hit inside out forehands. All their crosscourt forehands land short. Call it clone tennis. On the backhand side, they tend to step into the ball and drive it, hence they have strong backhands but weak forehands. Not a recipe for success in the show.
     
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  38. TheRed

    TheRed Professional

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    Yes, I agree, Blake has achieved much more. As you said, Blake actually has a big forehand. Harrison doesn't, by pro standards at least. I don't think Blake's lack of game plan contributed to his success though. Blake is simply better than Harrison. Blake was faster and is very consistent off the backhand side. Other than the serve (and the advantage is only marginal), Harrison doesn't do anything better than Blake.
     
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  39. President

    President Legend

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    LOL, he would be lucky to win 6 games total against Murray on grass.
     
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  40. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Huh first of all this makes zero sense. Second just look at what Gilbert did to Nishikori's game. He got him back on track and into the top 30 (then Nishikori furthered himself into the top 20 in the first tournament minus Gilbert..so Gilbert got him into the 20 from 100 in a season basically.) I mean I can't speak off hand of who is coaching Dimitrov and Janowciz but the two have actually shown dramatic improvements and actually putting work into their weakness and developing their own games. Hell as much as I complain about Raonic for not working on weaknesses he even has put a lot of work into his baseline game.

    Results exist everywhere outside of the US when it comes to young players now, results aren't great but the US is by far the worst. Ryan Harrison should not be out of the top 100 and instead should be climbing to where Dimitrov is. However it almost feels as if the USTA has no idea what to do anymore, but all we here about is the Nick Bolletteri academy and how it's doing wonders for US juniors. Yet zero results have been achieved. Besides if you just look at it, the most successful Americans since Andy Roddick have been James Blake and John Isner. Both of those guys went to college and did not develop under USTA in their late teens early 20s. Both have done more than any junior prospect the USTA.
     
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  41. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Never mind Nishikori and Dimitrov. If a US player wants to come up outside of the USTA, let him do it and show everyone. John Isner is 9 feet tall and that gives him a big serve. And that is all good. Let all the coaches and parents also produce more Isners. But what does this board say about Isner? That he is a loser. So nobody other than the top will get any respect, be it coming through the system or outside it.

    The fact is that globalization and affluence and awareness have spread to far more places than when US tennis was dominant. So the statistical chances of one country dominating has been reduced. It is as simple as that. In technology and medicine, a country at the forefront can keep pumping money, and keep being the leader, because other places find it very difficult to have the same access. (Even that is not too true any more.) How many places can build a LHC or a Fermilab? But in tennis, you start from scratch every time. A great stadium does not guarantee that a newborn child can hit the ball. Infrastructure helps, but a court and a coach can be found in thousands of places now. You can't pass on the "heritage" that easily.
     
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  42. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Probably.

    But not yesterday.
     
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  43. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    Problem is a US player will struggle so hard to come up outside of the USTA regardless of talent. He won't get the wildcards, travel fees and various other things covered that they get. I don't think having the USTA is a bad thing, but they need to stop trying to make every player follow some same formula and start developing good tennis players.

    Second I think Isner gets a damn good amount of respect. Sure he's disrespected at times for being just a big serve type of guy, but most people will agree that Isner (as well as Querrey) are established top 30 guys. Querrey to my knowledge as well didn't work much with the USTA as a junior and isn't super involved now as a pro. Mostly becuase while Isner and Querrey were developing the USTA was throwing all their money at Donald Young. Quisner gets a good deal of respect, I mean you can't go with fanboys, because fanboys are ******** at times.

    However right now at the state US development is in we'll be lucky to have a player in the top 50 at the end of next year. By the end of 2014 Querrey will be 27 and Isner 29 and their results are declining, chances is they might be out of the top 50. Whose coming up in their place? Jack Sock can't even seem to qualify for majors yet he is inside the top 100? Kulda might be the frontrunner but here at 20 like Sock is struggling to qualify for majors and doens't have 10 ATP wins yet. Harrison seemed hopeful up until this year but has hit a downward sprial. The other Harrison boy just turned 19 and isn't top 200 yet and Frataneglo well yea. No offense it would be a complete failure to have so many proven juniors and young talent to not get a single top 10 player out of the bunch.
     
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  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    You think that USTA was throwing "all" its money at Donald Young? Can you support that with any credible numbers?
     
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  45. uncooling

    uncooling Semi-Pro

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    With the amount of articles and all the hypes they made when donald was ranked 45 its not that hard to guess hiw much they have invested on him. It wasnt even funny they asked everyone including federer and nadal during their interviews abouut donalds future when they didnt even know him. Same goes with ryan harrison.
     
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  46. uncooling

    uncooling Semi-Pro

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    ??? If you really do think he is talented then I must feel really sorry for you. He has learned tons of stuff how to build games and sets and was oftened coached/advised by roddick and mcenroe. But with his talent this is about the best he can show as a player and he should be even thankful for all the support he received from usta that brought him to a position he doesnt belong. Without it he would be ranked outside of 300 now. He is nowhere close to being a talented player and he has already received goog coaching, support, tips on how to build points, etc to have accomplished thus far that I donk think his talent deserves
     
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  47. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    But still, the money spent on Young was a blip in the USTA's budget. Could it have been distributed among a few more people - sure. But, it's not like tons of players were suffering due to the money thrown at Young or that player development and resources ceased to exist outside of Young.
     
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  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. Just a lot of unsound amplification all around
     
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  49. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone really think that the USTA is all about developing world class players? They are an organization that is interested in pumping money into their own coffers and providing good jobs for their chosen executives.

    Keeping the money flowing in at the USO and their membership base is not dependent on them pumping out top players.
     
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  50. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Based on results on ATP and WTA tour USA tennis is a train that needs to be put back on the tracks.

    I wish I knew the answer. My thought has always been we need to get better athletes with more drive and ambition playing more tennis.

    Is it so simple?....I dunno.

    I do not again see Harrison as a lost cause, but time is running out and changes need to be made in his development now. There are a lot of good thoughts in this thread, perhaps he will actually read it.

    Bottom line is he was right there yesterday with a player who was flat out playing out of his mind.

    If I was Ryan I would take something positive from that.
     
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