Safin/Monfils lead tape/customization on frames info required!...

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by Ross K, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Like which locations they are thought/known to put lead at?... (are we talking polarized?... non-polarized?~... combinations of both?)... and about how much lead?... I'm sure in both cases it's a hefty load all right! :)... oh, and grip info too please (what kind grips they use, lead amounts in/on butt or whatever, etc)...

    Anything and everything re these 2 players and their customization set ups gratefully received!

    TIA,

    R.
     
  2. baseline_monster

    baseline_monster Professional

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    I know monfills uses calf skin leather with tourna and safin used to use the same but switched a few years ago to a head synthetic grip with pro overgrip on top
     
  3. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Safin definitely used some at the top of the racket, and sometimes used some at 3&9. Exactly how much I don't quite know. I heard he varied it based on what he thought felt good at the time... Might explain his lack of consistency... Haha. jk But he did vary the amounts himself based on how he felt it played. Some people have his rackets and can confirm this.
     
  4. baseline_monster

    baseline_monster Professional

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    I know at one point, think when he used the flexpoint pj he had big strips of lead at 10 and 2
     
  5. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    On Safins Frames his racquets start out much lighter than the retail frames. So knowing how much lead and where is not going to help you at all. What you want to know is what the end result is.

    According to HDtennis Safin is at:
    Weight: 353g
    Balance: 32cm
    SW: 347
    Grip: 4 1/2
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2010
  6. baseline_monster

    baseline_monster Professional

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    How do they manage to take the weight out or is it a case of they add silicone to the frame to build the weight up?
     
  7. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    The pro stock frames start out much lighter than retail frames so that the customizers of the players have much more control over the end result (basically they can do more with the frame). They add silicone (and lots of it) to gain some of the weight back before adding lead.
     
  8. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    VS, I've been searching for hours on end to find out whether those specs are strung or unstrung but with no success. If you can tell me with certainty whether the Greg Raven specs are strung or unstrung I'll be extremely grateful
     
  9. NovakWannabe

    NovakWannabe Semi-Pro

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    ^^Holy crap, how'd you get your hands on a Wilson Pro Stock H19??
     
  10. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    Long story short, I got it from a friend of a friend of a Wilson-sponsored pro who got the H19s for playtesting
     
  11. Pioneer

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    Ross K, I found these Safin specs in an old thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=121102

    travlerajm concluded that the strung swingweight would be 365 which in my opinion is a bit exaggerated. I believe the strung specs would look something like:

    350g
    31.7cm
    330-335 kgxcm^2

    Keep in mind that these are the specs of Safin's dunlops which were just clones of his head racquet
     
  12. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Pioneer,

    Many thanks ^^^

    Any guess/idea though how he might have customized - by which I mean where would he have put lead tape/how much/and grip info?

    You always hear Marat and Gael had frames that were 'clubs' but I'd be keen to know or just have some good informed guesses on lead tape quantities/locations/as well as grip specifics.

    Thanks again,

    R.
     
  13. baseline_monster

    baseline_monster Professional

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    Safin uses Head hydrosorb synthetic grips with Wilson Pro overgrips, grip size 4, there is pictures on the Prestige thread. Monfills uses head calfskin with tourna grip, size 5 I'm pretty sure.
     
  14. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    If Marat's strung specs are what Greg Raven posted then it's not a club in any way, it's more like federer's racquet. If, however, these are unstrung specs, it's a very different animal at 370g, 33cm and 380 SW, though I doubt it, considering how much lower his Dunlop specs are

    As far as lead tape placement is concerned, I believe Safin puts equal amounts at 12 and 3&9 and counterbalances with silicone in the handle
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
  15. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Pioneer, b-line,

    Thanks for informative posts ^^^

    R.
     
  16. baseline_monster

    baseline_monster Professional

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    No worries Ross. Just wondering, when you say polarized in regards to lead, does that mean that its split at say 3 and 9 with a strip either side of the strings?
     
  17. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Sorry b-line, I think there's a misunderstanding here somewhere and I'm sure you know this already but mention of polarized simply refers to a polarized set up, ie, like, say, lead tape @ 12 and in handle, versus a non-polarized set up, like, say, lead @ 3 and 9 and in handle... and as you're doubtless aware, many mix it up too, ie leading up @ 12,3,9, handle, etc - as Pioneer thinks Safin may have done at some stage...

    I actually tried this lead set up recently on my Pres mid with not very much lead, however, the sweet balance suddenly felt sluggish... not that I'm done experimenting. :wink:... am going with a couple of gs of lead just @ 10 and 2 next, see how that grabs me (I'm after a bit more oomph on serve and 2hbh.)

    R.
     
  18. baseline_monster

    baseline_monster Professional

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    Yeah I just sold mine and sold the bag to Meaghan, great sticks. I've got to add 20g to my new Volkls, going to be a nights work as I've got 4 of them and need some electronic scales! I would try some lead at 10 and 2 on the PST mate, would give great plough and they already have a good sweat spot
     
  19. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    Ross K, here's a picture of Safin that shows what his lead at 3&9 looked like in his early career:
    http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/1081633.jpg

    That's 1/4 inch lead tape covering 13 mains. I have the same deal and it's 14 grams. So I guess he has 14 grams at 3&9. Keep in mind that if you're trying to match your racquet to Safin's you can't just put 14g at the shoulders because his racquet initially weighs much less that the commercially available prestige mids.

    Here is a picture of his lead at 12:
    http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/108/pro110584maratsafinkustam4.jpg

    seems like it's 1/4 inch lead tape all the way from 10 to 2. My guess is that it's about 10g.

    I believe he counterbalances with silicone in the handle (that's what I read some time in the past on a safin-dedicated website). I don't know how much weight a fully filled handle with silicone would add but my best guess is 20-30g.

    In his later paintjobs you don't see any lead because it's all under the bumper.
     
  20. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Pioneer,

    Many thanks for great posts/details re Safin's mods. Although I'm not attempting to copy his set up (that said, a 'Safin light' set up could be worth me looking at?) - I am experimenting with lead etc on the Prestige mid for more 2hbh/serve oomph (presently about 3 g @ 10 and 2 and leather and OG)...

    Anyhow, I just find all this kind of thing interesting... cheers again!

    R.
     
  21. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    Ross,
    relative to where and how much weight is added to Safin's frames really is not comparable to your frames. Because if you strip all of the lead and silicone out of his frames you would end up with a a frame that is 10.0-10.5oz (with pallet, butt-cap, grip and grommets on) while your frame is about 11.5oz unstrung before you started adding weight. What you should be interested in is what Safin's frames spec out in the end.

    Just trying to help you out.
     
  22. baseline_monster

    baseline_monster Professional

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    Yeah, the players stock come ultra light right? So if you want the same specs you need his final SW, balance and static weight then match yours to that
     
  23. Jaewonnie

    Jaewonnie Professional

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    Hmm compared to a retail prestige thats not heavy customization at all. Thats about close to a retail prestige with a leather grip and overgrip isnt it?
     
  24. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    He has used a Synthetic grip for the past number of years.
     
  25. Pioneer

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    What if those are unstrung specs?

    PS: In a thread here that I can't find I read that thomas martinez said that Safin's swingweight was always around 335 unstrung, which would be about 360 strung.
     
  26. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    You have to remember that his frames start out much lighter than a stock retail frame.
     
  27. Jaewonnie

    Jaewonnie Professional

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    Ya I'm aware of that. Its just that if Safin's frame was compared to a uncustomized retail Prestige, than the differences dont seem too significant
     
  28. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^You are correct that Safin is not far from Stock

    According to Thomas the unstrung specs of Safin's frames are:
    Weight:336g
    Balance:31.2cm
    Swing Weight:335
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2010
  29. Pioneer

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    So if we string this with big banger original 16 gauge we got something like 355g, 32cm, 360 kgxcm2. I'm curious what the stock swingweight of the prestige classic 600 was, I know the LM prestige mid was in the 340s
     
  30. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    Prestige Classic 600 SW was 333 strung according to TW.
     
  31. Pioneer

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    guys, I plugged the unstrung specs into the learning center and assumed a stringbed weight of 15g with a center of mass 53cm from the buttcap. Here's the result:

    351g
    31.94 cm (from an initial 31cm because the tool only accepts natural numbers, but add in an overgrip to the unstrung specs and it's exactly 32cm strung)
    362.73 kgxcm^2

    Slap in an overgrip and the weight's right about 355g. So the static weight and balance are very similar to the PC600 but the SW is some 30 points higher
     
  32. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Guts,

    Interesting stuff... and just to reiterate:

    BTW, Pioneer has I think largely answered my qsn by showing pics of where Safin had lead on his frames...
     
  33. Pioneer

    Pioneer Professional

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    Oh well I am :D

    Although a slight miscalculation is throwing me off currently. When I have my racquet uncustomized it's SW is 315. Then when I punch in the exact specs and setup in the USRSA (14g with center of mass 54cm, 6g with center of mass 67.5cm) I get a SW of 363. Then when I use the TWU tool "Do-It-Yourself Swingweight" I get between 350-355. Maybe it's just due to random errors in the process, dunno, but I'm quite close to the "Safin setup"
     
  34. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Pioneer,

    Tried to email you but your profile won't allow it, so is it possible you could email me your email address only I have a few follow up/related qsns.

    Thanks,

    R.

    rossrohan@yahoo.com
     
  35. Pioneer

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  36. gino

    gino Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone have specs for Tommy Haas?

    Thanks.

    G
     
  37. Pioneer

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  38. mozzer

    mozzer Hall of Fame

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    Whats his string setup in lbs?! Sounds like a bloody cannon!
     
  39. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    mozzer, can't vouch for its reliability but last info I came across was this: monfils: prince, luxilon alu 1.25mm 57/55
     
  40. mozzer

    mozzer Hall of Fame

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    Oooh, what about Safin?
     
  41. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    ^ Safin???

    Where???

    The Russian Punisher??
     
  42. mozzer

    mozzer Hall of Fame

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    ? His string setup?
     
  43. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    Courtesy of PurePrestige's recent post:

    R.
     
  44. mozzer

    mozzer Hall of Fame

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    Ooft 62/64! I used that but with SPPP 1.18, hardly BB Orig though! Must swing like a club to use that so tight!
     
  45. juan ignacio face

    juan ignacio face New User

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    Of all the new head prestiges, which one is closest to the model Safin used? What were the specs of Safin's prestige? Are any of the new ones close?
     
  46. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    ^Prestige Mid.

    If you want the closest feel to safin's pro-stock .1's or 'ol p10's, I would suggest hunting down some readily available MicroGel Prestige Mids.

    My experience is they come in lighter than the youteks, I've measured many that were 315grams unstrung. Wrap 10gr of lead all the way around the top half of the hoop and add 9grams of silicone under the cap, so when og is added it will balance out perfectly.

    The end specs will be somewhere in the range of 355-358grams (depending on string), 350+sw and anywhere between 7-8pts. HL.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2012
  47. sampras98

    sampras98 New User

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