Safin, THE MOST overrated player EVER!

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Achilles82, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Ok, enough is enough. I see all the time on this forum people talking about how talented, and how great player Safin is. "Is Safin more talented then Federer, Is Safin better then Djokovic, Safin is this, Safin is that" ENOUGH ALLREADY!

    Fist of all, I LIKE Safin. He was a good player, I respect him. But don't talk about him as like he was one of the greatest EVER. Safin is not in top 15 of all time.


    Safin won 2 grand slams, 5 masters titles, and on most of masters didn't even reach QF. On 41 grand slams he played, only 9 times he passed 4th round!
    Yes, he beat RF in AO 2005, BIG WHOOP, so on that 1 great win, you consider him as one of the greatest of all time? And he was No1 for only a couple of weeks. Since 2006 he couldn't stay in top 20! I mean he was 26, that's supposed to be best age for a tennis player. And he couldn't be even in top freakin' 20! Are you kidding me?


    Stop comparing him with Roger, Novak, Nadal, even Murray. They are all at least 5 times better players then Safin. If Murray played between 2000 and 2005, he would've won like at least 5 grand slams, and be No1 for long period of time.


    Players greater then Safin in tennis history (in no particular order):

    1.Federer
    2.Nadal
    3.Djokovic
    4.Murray
    6.Sampras
    7.Agassi
    8.Lendl
    9.Bjorn
    10.McEnroe
    11.Wilander
    12.Courier
    13.Edberg
    14.Connors
    15.Roddick
    16.Becker
    17.Vilas
    18.Nastase
    19.Ashe
    ...
     
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  2. Breaker

    Breaker Legend

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    Can't focus on topic at hand until this is addressed.

    Safin is closer to being GOAT and Prime Minister of Canada than this being anywhere near true.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
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  3. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    Having Murray in there ruins all credibility.

    /thread
     
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  4. got spin?

    got spin? Banned

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    I think if Fed wouldnt have come along on the tour Roddick would have dominated for several years and probably would still be top 3 at least. Federer just completely destroyed him and his mentality.
     
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  5. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Ok, I'm going to address it.

    Remember I've said in grand slams Safin passed 4th round only 9 times from 41 played tournaments? Well, Andy dd that from 23 appearances. He didn't win grand slam YET, but he is only 24, and will win I guarantee it.

    Safin played 87 times masters tournaments, and reached QF or above 16 times. Which is really not that impressive. He won 5 masters tournaments, which is good, but...

    Andy played 49 masters so far, and passed QF 21 times. He won 6 masters, and I repeat, he is ONLY 24. Has at least 3 more years to play at TOP level.

    Andy only problem is he is playing in time where you have 3 No1 players. If Andy played 10 years ago, he would be No1 easily.
     
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  6. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Remember Hewitt? The only reason Hewitt didn't finish 2004 as world number 2 was because he started the year at number 17, while Roddick was always in the top 2 throughout 2004 and wasn't meeting Federer until finals. As for 2005, Hewitt missed the entire clay-court season and the last few months of the year, but he was also better than Roddick that year when he played.
     
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  7. Tennis_Monk

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    Simple answer is NO.

    Safin is not the MOST overrated player.
     
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  8. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Listen, if you're good then you're good. There is no excuse. Andy is Ok player, has top 5 talent, but not really in Roger, Nadal, Novak category. Look at Novak. Lost so many times to Roger, and especially Rafa, and yet he came back, and became No1. When you've got it you got it. If you don't then you don't.

    Fine, loose to Roger or Rafa or Novak, but you need to be able to beat at LEAST other players if you want to be in top 5, which Andy couldn't do.
     
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  9. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yet Roddick, like Safin, has 5 masters series despite the much greater longevity of Roddick's career. Roddick has 1 major to Safin's 2, and 1 Davis Cup to Safin's 2. Roddick has spent 4 weeks longer at number 1 than Safin, though, 13 weeks compared to 9 weeks.

    Safin, for all the underachievement, achieved a lot in tennis, and he was always very entertaining to watch, whether he was playing brilliant tennis, getting frustrated or having a meltdown.
     
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  10. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Murray is consistent, which is what makes a great player. Safin wasn't.

    Andy played so far 3 finals, lost to Roger 2 times, and Novak 1 time. He played 4 semi finals, lost 3 times to Nadal, and 1 time against Roddick on grass.

    Nadal, Roger and Novak are only Andys problem, nothing else.
     
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  11. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    If you wanna watch tennis so you could see drama, or players getting melt down, that's fine, but that has nothing to do with how talented Safin is.


    Roger, Rafa, Novak, you can't even compare Safin to them.
     
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  12. 10ACE

    10ACE Professional

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    Safin was 90% physical ability 10% mental on the court. He needed a head coach. I liked his game and his humor. Not overrated.
     
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  13. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Just to make 1 thing clear.


    I'm not saying he is overrated player, in sense that he wasn't top player. He definitely was, and I liked to watch him.

    All I'm saying, he wasn't in premier tennis players category (Sampras, Agassi, Roger, Novak, Nadal, Bjorn, McEnroe etc...)


    He was more like in Roddick, Chang, Ivanisevic, Rafter category.... more or less
     
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  14. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Safin won 2 majors, 5 masters series, 2 Davis Cups, 15 career singles titles overall and spent 9 weeks as world number 1.

    I'm sorry, but that's an excellent career, especially for someone considered a big underachiever.

    Safin beat prime Federer in the semi finals of the 2005 Australian Open. As for Djokovic, Safin is 2-0 against him, the second match of which was a straight sets win for Safin at 2008 Wimbledon of all places, when Djokovic was world number 3 and Safin was well past his best.
     
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  15. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I see the opposite...he underrated. He's always been called as an underachievered which cannot be considered as an overrated player.
     
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  16. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Has anyone put Safin's achievements up there with Sampras, Agassi, Federer, Djokovic, Nadal, Borg and McEnroe? :confused:
     
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  17. got spin?

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    I still think Roddick would have been a sensation if it werent fed. I mean Roddick has confidence issues, of course he lost to federer in alot of finals but that shoudnt have stopped him from creating a Roddick Federer era and eliminated the Rafa Roger rivalry before it even started.
     
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  18. JustBob

    JustBob Hall of Fame

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    Regardless of the topic, anytime I see "MOST.... EVER!" (in small caps even) in a thread title, there's a 99.986245321 % probability that said thread cannot be taken seriously. With this thread, that probability has now risen to 99.986245322 %
     
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  19. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    As I mentioned upthread, the biggest loser from prime Federer's presence was Hewitt, not Roddick, especially if we're talking about 2004-2005.
     
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  20. T1000

    T1000 Hall of Fame

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    You put Murray and Roddick on that list but not Hewitt? 2 grand slams from each Hewitt and Safin is better than 0 and 1 no matter how you twist it.

    and Mustard is right, Hewitt dominated Roddick when they were both in their primes (04-05) Hewitt would've benefited more
     
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  21. Breaker

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    Murray has lost to more players than just those three in slams and hasn't even come close to being competitive in a slam final, I'd bet my life savings on Safin getting at least a set in one of the three finals Murray was in and probably winning one or two of them.

    Second - 24 is not young at all when discussing players winning slams, there hasn't been a multi-slam winning player in the last 30 years who won their first slam after 24.

    Third, the time period between 2000-2005 was absolutely full of talent. Sampras was at about the period in his career where Federer has been for the last year (you yourself said he's still a 'number 1 calibre player'), Agassi was playing at a consistently high level, Hewitt was a clear number 1, and clay had a lot more specialists than just Nadal.

    There are top players in every single era. If Murray was playing in 2000 and lost to Agassi, Guga, Sampras, and Safin at their respective slam victories we'd be saying "oh his only problem is there are is talent everywhere, anyone would have difficulty".
     
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  22. got spin?

    got spin? Banned

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    I will agree that Hewitt has proved him self. But I still think If Andy would have kept hid mind strait the top 5 would be as follows

    1)Djokovic
    2)Nadal
    3)Roddick
    4)Federer
    5) Hewitt
     
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  23. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Agree 100%. Very good career, but not as good as Nadal, Roger, or Novak (especialy Novak in 5 years)

    Omg, Safin won against Federer ONE time, let's put Safin in hall of fame because of that win only. He has 10-2 against Roger. He was lucky that 1 time, that's it.

    AHAHAHAAHAHAHA

    First time he beat Novak was when Novak was 18. ranked 81st lol. Yeah, let's count that hahaha

    Second time, I'll give to Safin, but I'll tell you this. The only reason why they didn't play more matches, is because Safin couldn't pass like 3rd round of almost any tournament. And I guarantee you this. Novak wins against Safin 9 of of 10. He was lucky, that is all.
     
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  24. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    I'm not even talking about "achievements", because that is pretty clear. I'm talking about player respect, and people place Safin at very top, and compare him with Roger or Novak or Agassi...

    It's threads like this that pisses me off.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=388495

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=366565


    Thread No1 "who is more talented Roger or Safin", I mean give me a brake...

    Thread No2 "Better player out of Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, or Djokovic". Please don't compare Novak with Safin or Roddick. It's a put down.


    And 50 more times I've read it in different arguments on this forum.
     
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  25. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Don't mention it.

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  26. Kaz00

    Kaz00 Semi-Pro

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    Nalby has more talent than Federer and Safin in one pinky.
     
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  27. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    Safin/Nalby at their best would destroy Djokovic. In fact, in AO 2005 Safin bageled Djokovic in a 6-0, 6-2, 6-1 win. Granted Novak was only 18 or 19, but he still plays a similar style game. Safin can counter it perfectly, and had the power to break Djokers defense. Seriously, no contest.
     
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  28. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

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    But 18 year old Djokovic was MUCH worse than 20 year old Djokovic, who was MUCH worse than 24 year old Djokovic.
     
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  29. SStrikerR

    SStrikerR Hall of Fame

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    Oh no doubt, this Djoker was missing shots he would make in a heartbeat today. The thing is, his gameplan isn't much different now than it was then. I still think that Safin would be able to dictate pretty easily and counter Djokovic's shots. The only way I could see Safin losing is him having an outburst because of Novak's defense or something.
     
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  30. fps

    fps Legend

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    He's horrifically overrated around here. It's a case of a guy who had a lot of injuries, therefore meaning he had more "potential' that simply must have been untapped, and a very high peak level of play, which "must" mean that he could have played that way all the time. The add in the looks, the physique, the personality and he becomes a video game character who you add extra points on to because he's cool.
     
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  31. HiroProtagonist

    HiroProtagonist Professional

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    Roddick is not better than anyone on that list.
     
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  32. mcr619619

    mcr619619 Rookie

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    LOL, he isn't overrated, i think he's a little bit underrated.. i like his game style, he won a lot of tourney despite his short peak time... he wasn't really focused in tennis after he won some tourneys and injuries attack him badly...

    i find him more fun to watch than nadal
     
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  33. mcr619619

    mcr619619 Rookie

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    Agree 101%
     
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  34. westside

    westside Hall of Fame

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    Roddick > 1 slam, #1 ranking, 4 slam finals (beating Murray in 09 Wimbledon semi), 5 masters
    Murray > 0 slams, 3 slam finals, 6 masters

    I'm not a Roddick fan, but come on now.
     
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  35. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    hehehe... the posters starts with a good point (mind you i'm a Big Safin fan), despite we can agree with him or not. but then...

    rimshot...

    :nice stand up comedy but keep your day job:
     
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  36. Diabl0

    Diabl0 New User

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    Why the hell are you bothering to make a all time list to prove Safin was over rated? When did anyone say he was top 15 all time?

    Most people feel he was a talented underacheiver..which he was.

    Stupid thread.
     
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  37. Comet Buster

    Comet Buster Banned

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    Words/insults can't justify how stupid the OP is. Murray? You're just trolling for attention right? In terms of technical skill Safin surpasses Murray in everything. Even in a matchup Murray's defensive play would fit right into Marat's style. All four of these guys have had longer career's than Safin. In fact, the only guy who would be tough for Safin to beat on a consistent basis would be Federer (Safin's focus to beat Federer just wouldn't be there the majority of the time). Safin would be a nightmare matchup for Nadal, Djokovic and Murray. He was able to beat Djokovic at Wimbledon 2008 for christ sakes. I still can't believe you said Murray???? What the hell? That guy couldn't even win a set against an out of prime Federer in a slam final. At least Safin had to go through the two greatest players in their primes to win his slams. Get real.









    Also, I know you don't watch Safin. His AO 2005 match wasn't his only impressive win.
     
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  38. Satch

    Satch Hall of Fame

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    maybe he meant to say that he was overrated on these boards because i cant say that he was in reality.

    but again, he was talented and got every stroke.. Good serve, good on net, nice 2hBH, only his head was/is in serious trouble, thats why he wasted his talent.

    ..but again everyone that knows safin know that his priority wasnt tennis but luxurious life
     
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  39. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    More proof that it is not Safin but NALBANDIAN who is the most overrated player ever. The current Djokovic would destroy Nalbandian, not the other way around. In fact Djokovic has delievered smackdowns to Nalbandian many times when he was playing nothing like he is now, including dishing him a bagel and breadstick in one of their meetings.
     
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  40. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    THIS IS EXATCLY why I made this thread. Safin or Nalbandian at their best would destroy NOVAK DJOKOVIC, who has 48 wins and 1 defeat in 2011, including beating Rafael Nadal No1 player 5 times in a row, man who won 2 grand slams and 4 masters in 6 months?

    Do you realise Safin has 2 slams and 5 masters in his whole carrier? Do you REALISE what Safin did in his whole carrier, Novak basically did in 6 months?

    I can't even believe someone would say that.

    AHAHAHAHAAH Granted he was 18? He was 75th in the world! Safin didn't just beat him. So did Guillermo Coria, Florent Serra, Paul-Henri Mathieu... Maybe they are better players then him?

    Safin can't counter perfectly. If he could counter perfectly, maybe he reached more then 3rd of 4th round in tournament, and progress enough to play Djokovic. That's why they only played 2 times.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2011
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  41. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Yet....


    Sampras was at his late 20s, and early 30s in that time. It's was unmotivated worn out Sampras.

    Agassi was good, but not "destroyable" like Roger, Nadal, Novak or Sampras at middle of 90s

    Hewitt? Don't get me start on Hewitt... I can't believe he was No1 for 2 freakin' years. Do you realise Roger Federer right now as No3, has more points then Hewitt as No1 at end of 2002? Because of Hewitt I believe Murray would be No1.

    On clay I agree...
     
    #41
  42. RedWeb

    RedWeb Semi-Pro

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    The primary reason Safin is considered so wonderful on this forum is because he shagged so many foxes in his day. Since 1/2 of the posters on this board are lucky to get a date on Saturday night they are fanboys. Women love him because of his charm and good looks. Tennis talent and results wise he had a good career but nothing that even begins putting him in the upper strata of tennis history.
     
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  43. benmarks1984

    benmarks1984 New User

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    What carnt you believe about Hewitt being number 1 for 2 years?? In 2001 and 2002 Lleyton was by far the best and most consistent player. Agassi, Sampras, Safin, Federer, Nalbandian, Roddick, Kuerten, Ferrero, - all these guys were around in 2001 and 2002 but Hewitt won a slam in each year and the end of year masters and was the most consistent player throughout both years.

    Your judging him on the way he plays today, but since 2006 he hasnt been able to go more than a few months without picking up an injury.
     
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  44. adidasman

    adidasman Professional

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    Wilander, Nastase, Courier, Ashe - ASHE! - Vilas, Edberg, Murray - MURRAY!!! - Roddick - RODDICK??!!?? - and no Laver, no Rosewall, no Newcombe? Your list is a joke.
     
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  45. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Agassi - Good player, but he was in his 30s, he wasn't "best Agassi", he was just "average very good Agassi".

    Safin - Like I said, the most overrated player ever

    Federer - Are you serious? In that time, Roger won like 2 ATP titles. Roger Federer we know today was about to come 2 years after that.

    Roddick - He has top 5 talent, generaly is top 10 player, but not in Roger, Nadal, Djokovic class. Not even close.

    Kuerten - He was good, but he was clay court specialist. For rest of the surfice, he was just "good".

    Ferrero - Same as Guga, only not as good.


    Just have 1 thing in mind. I always repeat this. Hewitt had less points as No1, then Roger Federer as No3 right now, or Novak as No3 for last couple of years.

    Nadal right now holds 2 grand slams, 1 grand slam final, 1 masters title, 2 500 series titles, 4 masters finals, and he is still not No1. With Hewitt results today, he'd be No4


    About his injuries, I'll give him some slack, but listen, del potro took 1 year completley off, and he came back in top 20, it's just a matter of time when he's going to be top 10 again.
     
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  46. Achilles82

    Achilles82 Semi-Pro

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    Absolutley, won more slams, more titles in general.

    I'll just copy my post about Andy, cuz I don't wanna repeat myself.

    "Remember I've said in grand slams Safin passed 4th round only 9 times from 41 played tournaments? Well, Andy dd that from 23 appearances. He didn't win grand slam YET, but he is only 24, and will win I guarantee it.

    Safin played 87 times masters tournaments, and reached QF or above 16 times. Which is really not that impressive. He won 5 masters tournaments, which is good, but...

    Andy played 49 masters so far, and passed QF 21 times. He won 6 masters, and I repeat, he is ONLY 24. Has at least 3 more years to play at TOP level.

    Andys only problem is he is playing in time where you have 3 No1 players. If Andy played 10 years ago, he would be No1 easily."

    Ok maybe not easily, but would be No1.

    That's right. Was more consistent then Safin. Safin passed 4th round in slams only 9 times dude! That's almost embarrassing for former No1 player! Roddick did that 18 times, and has also won a slam.

    Roddick is more consistent player, and to me that's what makes an excellent player.

    I've put 3 dots at the end, meaning there is more players, I just didn't wanna count them anymore.
     
    #46
  47. MethodTennis

    MethodTennis Hall of Fame

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    the thing about the era. I totally agree If he had been a late 90s early 00s player people would inclued him in GOAT debates tbh. Its all about when you play and playing just now is not a good time to be trying to forge a legacy
     
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  48. 2kJosh

    2kJosh New User

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    Safin was a lot like djokovic before only he never really grew up and took anything as serious as he should have.
     
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  49. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    And Safin didn't care...he won 2 slams and then retired. He has now taken up another sport...and a political career.

    [​IMG]
     
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  50. fundrazer

    fundrazer Hall of Fame

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    Your comments regarding Hewitt aren't necessarily fair. When we're having 4 guys basically dominate the tour, of course they're going to accumulate the most points. It also doesn't help that the surfaces are now relatively the same. In the earlier 2000s we had a wider range of dangerous players for each surface. As such it would obviously be harder to accumulate as many points today, even for a dominate player. On clay we had players like Moya and JCF who both have won the french. We've got guys on grass like Sampras, Ivanisevic, Flipper, Rafter still.

    Just my thoughts anyway.
     
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