Sagging crosses, something to be concerned about?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by tsongaali, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

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    I notice that professional string jobs have crosses that are perfectly straight. My stringer always strings my racquets where the crosses sag down a bit, like a hammock. Is this something to be concerned about. Although i know nothing about stringing it seems like this could be easily fixed if more effort was put into the stringjob. Is it a big ask to ask him to make sure the crosses are straight? Also note that my stringjbos are very low (45lbs).
     
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  2. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    It's not your low tension. I am afraid your stringer simply isn't taking the care he should take in providing you with a quality finished product. Unfortunately, the diagnosis is really that simple.
     
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  3. got spin?

    got spin? Banned

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    Is there a big difference in Mains and Crosses tension?
     
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  4. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    If your stringer isn't straightening the crosses or pushing them up before he pulls tension on each string he is losing some significant tension on the crosses. I would suggest finding another stringer.
     
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  5. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    If I understand you correctly, then your stringer hands off the racquet to you just strung with the cross strings not straight. If that is correct, then I would find another stringer.
    Bad enough if the stringer straightens the cross strings after the job is done, which is not a proper way to do it, ( the curvature of each cross can be different, and if straightened later can result in an inconsistant lower tension), but he is lazy enough to hand you a racquet without even straightening them at all is just bad.
    The proper way to do it is to straighten each cross string as it is being tensioned. Usually pushing the cross string against the previously tensioned cross string, then when it is tensioned it will be relatively straight.If it is straightened later, then the tension would be lower depending on the curvature of each string.This is why it is best to straighten each as it is tensioned.
    So... if that is what is being done, how do you know what else he cut corners on. Best to just go to someone else, or string your own!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
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  6. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    I straighten out each cross while being tensioned, but I find that I still have to straighten them out again after the job is finished.
     
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  7. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

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    Well I think im just going to ask him to straighten the strings while stringing and see what happens. If he doesn't, I may just bring my racquets to the shop instead.

    I like him a lot though because he provides the most affordable rate out here and has amazing turn around time (within a day). But it does scare me if this may not be the only thing he does incorrectly.
     
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  8. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Just how would you know if he actually does this, unless you actually watch him string??
     
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  9. mctennis

    mctennis Hall of Fame

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    Sagging anything isn't a good thing.
     
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  10. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Something specific you are commenting on ? :)
     
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  11. mctennis

    mctennis Hall of Fame

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    Mains and crosses, duh.
     
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  12. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Agree with the others in that your stringer or any stringer for that matter should be straightening strings as they pull tension, and not do it after the frame has been completed. It leads to tension loss.
     
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  13. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    Consistency is very important to most players. If you have him do this, your racquet will hit different. I am not saying what he is doing is right, (it isn't). Just ask him to straighten strings before you see it.
     
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  14. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    Same here.
    If your stringer isn't straightening at all, that's just lazy, sloppy work.
     
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  15. Spin-A-Lot

    Spin-A-Lot Rookie

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    Does this happen with fixed clamps? I thought, from experience that it's more obvious on flying clamps...
     
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  16. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    It ALWAYS happens!
    Nature of the beast.
    The crosses will not pull straight because of friction and tension in the mains.
    I hope you don't think the logo is already stencilled on the string!:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2011
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  17. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Thought maybe you would be talking about Coopers Droop.
     
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  18. equinox

    equinox Hall of Fame

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    Agreed lazy lazy.
     
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  19. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    i never straighten my crosses, i dont see the big deal in it.to be truthful it doesnt matter to me.
     
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  20. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    You're not going to have grid straight strings coming immediately off the machine. At the end of every string job, even every proper one, not every string will be perfectly straight. There's just too much friction between the strings for them to be aligned perfectly. However, each cross should not be a frown. That is a sign of poor stringing technique, and if I can be honest like the others, laziness. In short, just switch stringers.
     
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  21. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    My stringer always leaves saggy crosses but I don't feel like firing myself or straightening the strings since they'll move all over the place anyways once I start hitting with them.
     
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  22. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    If the strings move later, thats one story as it does not effect the tension, but if they are strung sagging down, then thats another story, as it does effect the final tension, and inconsistantly,as well as it depends on how much each is sagging.
    Also if the stringer cannot even give it to you with straight strings then thats just lazy and who knows what else he is lazy with.You know presentation of final product plays an important part as well, yet alone that crooked crosses while stringing effects the string bed as well. I guess some people don't care or take pride in what they do.
     
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  23. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I only string for myself and I do it consistently so I'm used to it. If I ever string for others, I'll do it the right way.
     
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  24. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    exactly same here. when i string for money then i straighten them etc.
     
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  25. COPEY

    COPEY Hall of Fame

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    Does anyone ever straighten the mains after they're finished? Pulling tension on the crosses results in several mains being slightly bowed inward. At least that's been my experience. How do you guys deal with that...or do you?
     
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  26. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    Not straightening the crosses as you string results in a loss of around 3-4lbs
    of tension on them, this is a significant amount. It doesn't require much more effort to do the job correctly. You two need to take a little more pride in your work. :)
     
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  27. COPEY

    COPEY Hall of Fame

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    How'd you come up with those figures?
     
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  28. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    The USRSA Racquet Service Techniques part of "The Digest".
    States that the USRSA tests showed a 3-6% higher tension when straighten while tensioning, depending on machine type.

    My take on this is...
    It makes sense that it would be, not only for machine type but also the curvature adds length to the string, so when it is straightened later it would be a decrease in tension. It seems that if different curvatures were on each cross string it would give a different amount of tension variance.Many variables with stringing as it is, so why add more variables when it is easy to just keep the string as straight as you can when tensioning.Plus it looks neater, and the customer deserves the best you can string along with a neat appearance.Also if you string for yourself, many string for themself due to lack of detail and lack of proper stringing of others, so they string their own, so if you string your own should you not deserve a decent job?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
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  29. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Yep. My outer two mains sometimes like to be bowed inwards slightly. Really does depend on the string though. When using rough mains in a hybrid, this is common. When doing full poly or fully natty, it rarely happens.
     
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  30. COPEY

    COPEY Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the info, Jim. Some people throw out numbers or make statements in the form of facts when they're often time just opinion. That's fine, of course, but I typically prefer to know whether the person has a source or if they're just stating their opinion. ;-)

    Appreciate the feedback pv. I'll have to start paying closer attention when I do full poly jobs to compare to all the hybrids I typically do. The bowing isn't prominent at all, and in fact you can hardly tell usually unless you tilt the racquet away from you. Just figured I'd pop the question since no one ever mentions mains and how they're not straight after a finished string job.
     
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  31. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    I straighten the mains as well. Afterwards you find the crosses were not as straight as you thought.
    Classic optical illusion.
     
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  32. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    I straighten the strings as I go. Tried a tip I learned on here yesterday, to pull the strings up against the previous tensioned string before pulling tension. That worked really great and made it even easier to straighten them as I go. (tip from Jim e I think)

    After finished I ensure all are straight, then once I take the racquet off the mount, I finish it off with the "stringthing" which just fine tunes the straightening. I know I've read some dislike on here about the stringthing, but it sure seems to finish off a string job pretty well for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
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  33. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    It seems like my crosses are straight when I pull them but they always end up with a slight bow. I'll pay more attention next time.
     
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  34. PureAlph4

    PureAlph4 Semi-Pro

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    Constantly improving my stringing technique little by little thanks to this forum! Really provides a wealth of knowledge.

    When you guys say straighten the crosses whilst stringing, how do you do this on a dropweight if you have one hand on the crank and one on the bar? Do you straighten them while you have just pulled a little tension, or do you need to straighten once under full load (and then have to retension if bar drops due to reducing slack)?

    Previously I would make sure the cross was straight before pulling tension, and then on completion of the job, but I did notice there was slight bowing that needed correction.

    Will try the Jim e tip next time.

    Cheers!
     
    #34
  35. meowmix

    meowmix Hall of Fame

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    I generally weave the cross, apply tension while the string resembles the Mississippi River in curvature (aka I don't straighten beforehand), one hand lets the dropweight drop a bit while the other hand pulls back on the cross. When tension is completely applied, the string will be (more or less) straight because you've been pulling back on the string the entire time.

    Saw this when I was learning how to string in either one of DD or Yulittle's videos. Thank you (both of you)!
     
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  36. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    welp, i guess my crosses are 3-4 lbs looser.
     
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  37. PureAlph4

    PureAlph4 Semi-Pro

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    Great. Thanks; I'll try that.
     
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  38. coolblue123

    coolblue123 Hall of Fame

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    I usually just straighten out the strings and make sure that the string is shortest distance between the racquet and the string tensioner. (on my dropweight, anyways..) Learned that from one of the banned posters (initials are TM) here.
    Just alittle sloppiness from your stringers, just let him know that, and I am sure he'll pay more attention to it.
     
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  39. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I payed close attention yesterday to keeping the cross strings as straight as possible on each pull. Even doing that, each cross had a very slight sag to it which I fixed after each pull.
     
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  40. coachrick

    coachrick Hall of Fame

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    Wow, it was about 38 years ago that I decided (with some input from the shop owner) that handing a freshly strung racket to a customer and THEN watching them straighten THEIR OWN strings was a feeling I never wanted to experience again.

    If, for some strange reason, a customer ALWAYS wanted their rackets to look like a bundle of smiley faces, that would be different. ;) With a non-elastic string like many polys, the tension loss would be significant if the strings were straightened AFTER the stringing. To come up with relatively straight strings WHILE stringing, the method of sliding the non-tensioned cross up to the previously tensioned cross and THEN applying the tension will result in a fairly straight string(as mentioned by previous posters); but there's an even easier way...to string 'one ahead' as many stringers already do. By having a 'one ahead' cross already installed, the freshly tensioned cross will now tend to pull straighter, since there is some resistance to the tendency to move away from the previously tensioned cross toward the heretofore 'open' area. Whew! Just try it if you haven't noticed the difference.

    Also, straightening WHILE stringing will eliminate the 'locking in' of the crosses in the 'wrong' position(making it difficult to then straighten). There will always be SOME fine-tuning needed to make sure the racket is 'full of squares' instead of a smiley face here, a perfect 90 degree angle there, some loose, some tight, and so on.

    I can't recall, after 4 decades in the 'biz', of a single customer who was upset that their freshly strung racket had straight crosses and mains instead of smiley faced crosses...just sayin'.

    To re-cap: Straighten crosses WHILE stringing(as tension is applied) AND touch up when finished. It'll take less than a minute and you'll feel better about life--I promise. :)
     
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  41. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ Well said coachrick!! Nice post!
     
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  42. GlenK

    GlenK Professional

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    Nicely done coach!!!
     
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  43. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I agree, very informative. :)
     
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  44. themitchmann

    themitchmann Hall of Fame

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    I agree. Straighten as you go, then fine tune at the end.
     
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