Sampras w/ Wood Racquet to play Lendl with Modern racquet

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by BrooklynNY, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Good catch joe sch and gavna. I thought that the frame was a JKA too, with maybe the "P" on there standing for Pete or "pistol"..lol. Interesting frame. They sure did make it look a lot like the classic JKA. I never saw these around in the late 1970's when I first started playing. I loved my JKA frames though. Beautiful. Here is a Paramount Speedking Autograph with an "S" on it, whereas Pete's has a "P" above the grip. Thanks.


    http://woodtennis.com/paramount/paramount_speedking_1.jpg

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  2. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Hey BN1, isn't the rounded bottom half of the shaft of that Kramer is much longer than other Kramers? Typically, the flat section is much longer which gave the Kramer its flexible shaft section along with the stiffer hoop. This was in contract to the Dunlop Fort which had the stiffer shaft section and the more flexible hoop.
     
  3. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    One of the tennis shops I go to has about 200 old frames, from 30 to 90 years old, hanging from the ceiling. He's got one of those midsized, graphite reinforced, Kramers hanging on the wall with the rest of his modern Wilson stock. The graphite is basically a single ply in the hoop (the dark ply in your pic). If there's any graphite in the shaft, I'm pretty sure its covered by a lamination, so it can't be seen. But, knowing that the Kramers were basically known for the flexible shaft and stiff hoop, there may be no graphite in the shaft. I'm not sure about the head size, but, I'd say max about 75si.
     
  4. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    It looks like a Kramer Signature look-alike to me, not the real thing. The Kramer Sig has a big 3-pointed crown midway down the throat.

    He should've played with the Kramer Pro-Staff woodie, (it's closer to the PS85 in feel IMO).

    The Sig was more flexible; the Staff was stiffer and heavier.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  5. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Remember when I asked what racquet he'd be using and if it were an orginal because I didn't know if a 40+ year old wood racquet would hold up that well? I suspect the choice of Sampras' racquets is based on availabity.
     
  6. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Talk about copying the Jack Kramer Autograph. They even made the "K" in "King" bigger just like on the Kramer, and also put a crown logo on it. And then they had the gall to put 4 red and gold bands on each side of the shoulders, again just like on the Kramer. :shock:
     
  7. ChocoLab

    ChocoLab New User

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    He should've just got on **** or checked craigslist. :) I very much preferred the Pro Staff back when I was a kid.

    And IMO and the opinion of others back then, that Kramer midsize was pretty lousy. It was a nice idea, but wood just wasn't strong enough to make a midsize head play very well, unless you were talking about a split throat like a Price Woodie.

    Great thread, though. I'm definitely going to catch some of this match tonight.
     
  8. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Have you seen the Spalding Tracy Austin Autograph or the older versions of the Spalding Pancho Gonzalez Autograph frames? Those too are pretty close copies of the Wilson JKA.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  9. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Limpinhitter, I think that one I posted above may be a later model, relatively speaking, made in say the late 1970's or after. It looks a lot like the ones I used to use. I used a medium with (4 1/2 grip) in about 1978-1980 as a junior (B12's). Perhaps they changed it a bit over time and went a bit away from that earlier design, but I'm not positive. Do you mean a longer flat section just below the hoop like the Tad Davis. More like this? See the Tad Davis below and then a JKA from the 1960's (per Google). Thanks.

    [​IMG]

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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  10. BrooklynNY

    BrooklynNY Hall of Fame

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    Rained in with the hurricane, about to watch Pete bring it.
     
  11. thor's hammer

    thor's hammer Semi-Pro

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    The Challenge is on!! Yesss!!!

    Brought to you by Grecian Formula and Rogaine! ;-)
     
  12. ChocoLab

    ChocoLab New User

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    Wow, I know you guys mentioned something about Lendl's back being bad, but I haven't seen him in forever... Never thought I'd see him fat! Kind of shocking, almost.
     
  13. goober

    goober Legend

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    He actually has dropped quite a bit of weight from several years ago.


    BTW watching Bryan Bros dominate Jensens with wood racquets was pretty funny.:)
     
  14. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Donnay BORG Pro used by Pete Sampras was actually a Very nice racket. I hit with it few years back and it feels very solid and sweet,,just so long as you hit the sweet Spot. It is VERY small.
    I can see how Pete was serving 110-115 MPH with it tonight.
     
  15. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    That wasn't a Donnay Borg Pro that Sampras was using. He was using a Donnay Allwood. The Borg Pro was much stiffer and had graphite inlays in it.
     
  16. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    Well, that was a ripoff.
     
  17. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Yeah, it kinda was.

    There was no thought as to the wooden rackets either by the Bryans or by Sampras.

    The Bryans came out with "garage sale" rackets. Bob cracked one and was given a Dunlop Maxply off the display behind the commentary booth from John McEnroe.

    Sampras came out with both the Paramount Speed King and the Donnay Allwood. He started with the Allwood but it developed a crack. He tried the Speed King but didn't like the Paramount at all and ditched it after only playing one point with it in the set. He stuck with the Allwood despite it being cracked. Then he played as if he had a broken string coming to net whenever he could.

    but....

    The guys using wood still won.

    Bryans d. Jensens 6-3

    Sampras d. Lendl 7-5
     
  18. Devilito

    Devilito Hall of Fame

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    lol all that fuss for 2 sets of tennis. They couldn't at least play a pro-set?
     
  19. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    The bryans didnt even prepare for it, well only by playing ping pong.

    not only that to be truthful it just wasnt that entertaining. I was genuinely excited for this, and i was genuinely disappointed.
     
  20. big ted

    big ted Hall of Fame

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    i think the jensens would have won if they tried hard. it looked like they could win a point when they wanted to but it wasnt as entertaining, so they went for entertainment over performance. and i think sampras went easy on lendl, i think he could have beaten him easier if he wanted to. lendls movement doesnt look very good, he looks like he could be 30lbs over his prime playing weight. overall i liked the doubles match more than the singles. and i wonder why they didnt get john mcenroe to participate. he seemed like he would have been eager to join. agassi w/ wood vs. mcenroe w/ graphite would have been good too.
     
  21. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    and some guy ive never heard of sing,.
     
  22. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    McEnroe is nursing a glut/hamstring injury he suffered a couple of weeks ago.

    I thought I was out of the loop. If you don't know who Cee Lo Green is, you're either too old, not into pop culture, or maybe from another country and a combination of the previous two.
     
  23. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    im an 18yr old american kid, i dont listen to that stuff. now maybe if it were some metal or house music, then id listen to it.
     
  24. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Kind of confirms that apparently Sampras had very limited choices when it came to racquets....sad that he had to play it out with a cracked racquet! Also makes it obvious that even before it cracked, it was hardly in mint condition!
     
  25. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Just goes to show that with tennis racquets, size doesn't matter. :)

    And people today complain that a 93 sq. in. racquet is way too small to play with. They should go play with a 65 sq. in. wood racquet for a week and then come back to appreciate how truly MASSIVE that 93 sq. in. racquet is. :shock:

    Both the Bryan brothers and Sampras played really well with their wood racquets, and I don't think the Bryan brothers had ever played with wood racquets before but it didn't seem like they missed much of a beat. They were still hitting some great serves, volleys, half-volleys, and groundies with these tiny, heavy wood racquets that they had never used before and which probably had 30 year-old nylon strings in them. Just goes to show that when you're really good, you can play with just about anything. :)

    And Sampras was serving well over 110mph with the wood racquet. :shock:
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2011
  26. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    Or, it cracked under the pressure of Sampras' serve.... :)

    I'd say that the Bryans and Sampras played well enough to win but weren't comfortable at all about it.

    I hope an event like this happens again. Maybe next time, P1, ****, or Bosworth might step in and help the participants have a collection of better gear for which to play.

    Now I'm just reminded of the old thread where someone asked how a NTRP 5.0 player would stack up against Federer with a wooden racket.

    I'd be willing to extrapolate that the 5.0 should just stay home and not waste Federer's time.
     
  27. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    TBH, the reason why i dont like wood is the crazy @$$ flex. its not making contact, its keeping the ball deep, which is why you have to be so good controlling the shots, and placing them. the Bryans commented on that, about how they had to focus on accuracy over power.
     
  28. SusanDK

    SusanDK Semi-Pro

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    Couldn't they have had a decent doubles team from the 80's or 90's play? The Jensen brothers - sheesh, give me a break.

    It's a shame Mac was injured because it would have been fun to see him play doubles with one of the other in-shape seniors. Unfortunately, Peter Fleming didn't look too sharp at Wimbledon this year, but Jarryd is playing well and he and Mac won the French Open senior men's invitational doubles for several years together. Or bring Edberg to play with Mac. Or the Woodies who still play in the senior invitational events. Woodforde teamed with Pat Cash at this year's Wimbledon.

    I'll bet one of those teams could have given the Bryans a decent, competitive match. But I suspect that wasn't the idea.
     
  29. VGP

    VGP Legend

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    The commentators said that Sampras strung his frames at 50 pounds tension. I guess that was his attempt to get a little more power with the wood.

    It was distracting both as a spectator and for Sampras to see him looking at his frame to see how it was holding up between every point.

    That's a unprepared as I've seen anyone on court (gearwise) for a televised match. You come out with two frames. One cracks, the other you dislike so much you give it away and stick with the cracked one and it bugs you the rest of the time. Then after the match, despite winning, you throw it into the crowd bidding it riddance.
     
  30. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    But accuracy wins over power and the Byran brothers proved that. :)
     
  31. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    McEnroe and Edberg would give the Bryan brothers a competitive match even if they used wood racquets as well. :shock:

    BTW, the Jensen brothers won the French Open so I'd say they were pretty "decent". :)
     
  32. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    LOL. The power of Pete's swing doesn't help, but of course wood racquets stood up to servers as powerful as Sampras, or even more powerful in the past.

    Yes, I'm a little surprised...I assumed the organizers might have arranged for a collector to provide a selection of high quality frames....not just have the players show up with random frames from someone's garage! LOL


    A thread about Federer with a wood racquet at 5.0 is just plain stupid. Outright stupid...there shouldn't be any question at all. If I can play at 90+% effectiveness with wood, believe me, so can the pros.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
  33. Harry_Wild

    Harry_Wild Professional

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    I like a repeat match if and when Lendl get in shape and loose 50 pounds.
     
  34. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

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    Well...part of the idea was for the "modern" team to be worse...LOL. The woodies, if they're in shape, and playing, might give the Bryan's a match in an equal contest even NOW. LOL. They beat the Bryan's down on tour, and even though the Bryan's have improved, and the Woodies have aged (and won't be anywhere near the form they were), they were a far better team in their prime.
     
  35. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Who else yawned through the Sampras-Lendl match?

    I am a big Sampras fan, but I couldn't keep my eyes open.

    Lendl looked like he gained more weight since the match against Mac earlier this year.
     
  36. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    This event was really just very quickly organized and not well communicated with the players prior to arriving. Obviously the Bryans and Sampras did not know about the nice wood rackets that were supplied for display purposes behind Johnny Mac. He grabbed the maxply fort and fortunately it ended up with the Bryans. Bob Bryan did not even want his sons to play give the Open starting tomorrow.

    I think Pete should have stuck with the NOS paramount but he was not comfortable with the weight compared to the allwood. May have also been the strings since Im pretty sure it has just cheapo syn gut and was probably strung too loose for him.

    In any event, Pete and the Bryans were still hitting very big with some old wood that has some minor crack(s) and the rackets still did not snap. Just think if they had a chance to get use to playing a NOS wood with agreeable stringing setup, like nat gut.

    I was entertained and extremely impressed with Pete's ability to hit 120 serves where he wanted in the box. He also showed off his good ole SV expertise and Lendl could not beat him with a customized bosworth graphite. Give Ivan a break, he was probably a last day sub since Mac did not feel upto the task. He is over 50 and in golf condition :)

    The Bryans were very impressive hitting every shot in the book including half vollies, touch volleys, and out serving and volleying the Jensens. The Jensens were still impressive, just dont think they had been playing that much lately, especially against a dubs team with the speed and power of the Bryans ;)

    Great event, looking forward to follow up variants ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
  37. jakemcclain32

    jakemcclain32 Banned

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    Lendl's not just in golf condition. He's in golf condition while riding in a cart for 18 holes.
     
  38. thor's hammer

    thor's hammer Semi-Pro

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    Hey, it was a corporate cocktail party - with the noise and lack of attention given by the crowd to the actual tennis being played it must have been pretty tough on all the participants. That part was certainly disappointing.

    It would indeed be great to see something like this attempted again. As someone suggested earlier in the thread do it at the end of the year, between Thanksgiving and New Years, so any current players (singles or doubles) who might participate could relax and maybe even practice a little with wood ahead of time.

    And clearly have Joe Sch or someone similar provide good quality, well strung wood rackets to the players ahead of time. ;-)
     
  39. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

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    Federer vs Nadal. Both with wood.
     
  40. FedererClone

    FedererClone Semi-Pro

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    It was a really disappointing especially when it held so much promise. I mean Sampras old woodie vs Lendl modernista? I mean c'mon!

    What was with the crowd not even giving a crap about two legends out there on the court? Wrong venue, wrong crowd... plus Sampras only having 2 sticks, one cracked? Like this is Pistol Pete and nobody could come up with the goods? Just plain sad.

    Sure was fun seeing Pete serve and come in, and sure Lendl ain't as agile as old but he had a few classic passing shots out there as Pete came in; one BH down the line was pretty sweet....

    I feel the atmosphere could have created a much better set of tennis for the players. Neither was focused. Lendl and Sampras must have realized nobody was really watching. I felt like Sampras pitching the stick into the crowd at the end was a bit of an FU to be honest...

    It needs to be done again, and professionally organized at the right venue with the right crowd for sure.... maybe Agassi on the other side of the net would create the necessary buzz ~ I feel Pete could take him w/ S&V ~ bring it on somebody PLEASE !!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
  41. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    hate to tell you hitting big serves with wood nothing new. Colin Dibley in the 70s served normally in the 130s and had for a time the fastest serve at 149 mph and that was using a Maxply Fort. It's much more EASY to hit 125+++ serves with today's sticks but it's always been done.
     
  42. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Aww come on - the Jensens did fairly well on tour and top 10 in doubles in the early 90's - even a French open title. The point of this exo was for fun clearly and to get teams of brothers to play. Now JMac paired with PatMac would also have been fun as Patrick was a solid doubles player as well.
     
  43. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Even Borg served 125mph
     
  44. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Federer would clean Nadal's clock. :)
     
  45. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I don't think so. The fastest I've ever seen Borg serve with a wood racquet was about 115mph.
     
  46. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, but Colin Dibley practiced serving every day for hours with a wood racquet for decades. Sampras hasn't served with a wood racquet since he was 13 years old!
     
  47. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    He definitely served 125mph in one of his USO finals against McEnroe. I saw it on ESPN Classic a year or two ago.
     
  48. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    so lendl couldn't do it. which other past champions do you guys could beat sampras if he plays with a wood racquet? I can only think of mcenroe but i am not even sure he could do it.
     
  49. Nadal_Power

    Nadal_Power Semi-Pro

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    Any videos guys?
     
  50. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Mick, I think Stefan Edberg would have a real shot at beating Sampras. He's not that much older than Sampras and he's obviously still very fit and has obviously been playing a ton. I even think it would be competitive if they both played with graphite. The age difference is a big factor with past champions playing Sampras, especially since Sampras trains regularly with guys like Fish in L.A. I'd like to see Edberg vs. McEnroe as well. Borg is getting up there at 55, plus his predominant style always demanded stellar movement. I'm not so sure about Mats Wilander, but he may have a shot. Even with past greats, you just can't drop the game entirely for years on end and just pick up where you left off. See Edberg in 2010 at a Hong Kong tournament here.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yylgZJwnZu0
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011

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