Scenario for Djokovic becoming #1 (at Wimbledon)

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Shaolin, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,026
    Location:
    Kansas
    Just wondering if its possible for Djokovic to take the #1 ranking at Wimbledon and what that would entail. Thanks.
     
    #1
  2. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,804
    Location:
    Tuning Up The Band...
    Not till the week after. Don't worry, he's gonna get it in the next few weeks one way or another.
     
    #2
  3. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,704
    If Nadal does not win Wimbledon, Djokovic will take over the #1 spot even if he loses in the first round.

    If Nadal does win Wimbledon, Djokovic must make the final.
     
    #3
  4. powerangle

    powerangle Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,184
    Sounds a whole lot like RG. Interesting.
     
    #4
  5. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,804
    Location:
    Tuning Up The Band...
    Interesting indeed, a lot of cool stories going on at Wimby, I can't wait.
     
    #5
  6. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,026
    Location:
    Kansas
    Thanks. I'm not a big Djokovic fan but do find his charge to #1 intriguing.
     
    #6
  7. Sharpshooter

    Sharpshooter Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    922
    Let's say Nadal wins the final against Djoker. Djoker will be ranked number one even though Rafa has won 2/3 majors this year and made the final of 5 Masters events and winning one. Weird system.

    My worry is, in that scenario how will he be perceived? Will he even feel like he's number one?

    Personally, I'm a little on the fence about it. I think he well and truely would deserve it given his excellent form for pretty much the whole season so far, but if he fails at the majors then maybe the guy winning the majors still deserves it.
     
    #7
  8. Pwned

    Pwned Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,418
    nvm



    .
     
    #8
  9. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    6,879
    And while Rafa was amassing these majors and Masters finals, Djokovic was just sitting back twiddling his thumbs or something?

    Funny how you mention Nadal's Masters finals when considering the No. 1 rank but completely overlook the person who WON them.....like they shouldn't count or something.
     
    #9
  10. Sharpshooter

    Sharpshooter Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    922
    Well anybody who follows tennis would already know that Rafa lost to Novak in those other finals so why the hell would I need to mention it? But just for you I will, Djoker has lost one game all year and won 4 Masters titles by beating Rafa in each final.

    I did say he would well and truely deserve the number one ranking given his form this season so it's not like I didn't give him any credit at all like you make out.

    Anyway, that's not the point, what I'm saying is who will be more worthy of the number one rank should Rafa and Novak meet in the final and Rafa comes out victorious. Do we rate the victories at the majors or the masters events?
     
    #10
  11. powerangle

    powerangle Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,184
    Both victories (at majors and masters) matter. But Novak will have accrued more points. Would have defeated Rafa in several matches, and has a slam win of his own. He would deserve it. The whole "it's only slams that matter and nothing else!" mentality is dumb.

    If you believe that Novak would deserve it, then why are you questioning it?
     
    #11
  12. Sharpshooter

    Sharpshooter Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    922
    Because I also believe Rafa would deserve it if he wins 2/3 majors. It's hard to tell who is more worthy of the number 1 ranking, and I'm not saying only slams matter, only that they are more important and harder to win than Masters 1000 events.

    Yes Novak has a 4-0 record over Rafa this year, but if you ask him if he'd rather be 4-1 with the 1 being a loss in the Wimbledon final or 1-4 with only one win, but its the Wimbledon final what do you think he'd say?

    If slams are used as the benchmark in discussion of the greats, why can't it be the benchmark for the best player of the season?

    Besides, my opinion isn't the only one, even if I did think Novak would deserve it, doesn't mean everybody else would think so.
     
    #12
  13. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    28,724
    Location:
    Brave New World
    Dull hardly deserves the #1, being beaten regularly by Noel. Noel is the number one. And Dull won't win Wimbledon this year. USO isn't likely although I would not rule it out entirely.

    So Noel gets his #1 after all ??!!
     
    #13
  14. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Interesting question. Usually I would think someone holding 3/4 slams losing #1 to someone who only holds 1 is ridiculous. Djokovic winning those 4 Masters in a row (well except for 1 he skipped) and beating Nadal in the finals of each would legitamize it somewhat though. Still I think slams rule over all and 3 slams > 1 slam + whatever else. If there was only a one slam difference I could see it more easily.
     
    #14
  15. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    6,879
    And these relevant nuggets make it harder to question whether or not Djokovic has done enough to become No. 1.

    Djokovic has already won 1 major this year and everything in between. People who don't know anything about tennis might question it but I would hope that we regular tennis watchers would know better; there is tennis outside of the slams.
     
    #15
  16. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    While Djokovic has actually won a slam in the last year this question would be a similar one of Wozniacki vs the slam winners for womens #1, just on a much higher scale of achievement and worthiness for the men in question, but still relatively speaking the same sort of argument. In the hypothetical Djokovic took #1 by losing the Wimbledon final to Nadal that is.
     
    #16
  17. tusharlovesrafa

    tusharlovesrafa Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    2,394
    Location:
    Lucknow to kolkata
    Pls rectify your aforesaid mistakes(in red)..:)
     
    #17
  18. DMan

    DMan Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    922
    First off, Djokovic isn't winning Wimbledon.

    OK, he may become #1 after the event anyway. And that has happened before, where the computer ranking is a bit slow to recognize reality.

    Mark my words, it's over and out for Nole for 2011!

    That French loss really burst his bubble. He was on a great roll, but now it;s done. Djoker is the kind of player who does well when things are going well. But he doesn't handle adversity well.

    At Wimbledon, he will go in with more expectation and pressure (he's #2 betting favorite, Ha!) But he's never done well on grass.

    I also think the weight of expectations post Wimbledon will get to him. If he becomes #1, he will have more pressure, especially with US Open series. I think it's all going to come crashing down on Djoker in the 2nd half of the year. Yup, it's gonna happen!
     
    #18
  19. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    6,879
    ^^ Nadal, is that you?
     
    #19
  20. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,804
    Location:
    Tuning Up The Band...
    [​IMG]
     
    #20
  21. Messarger

    Messarger Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,828
    How would you know?
     
    #21
  22. Nextman916

    Nextman916 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,122
    ^
    hahaha!
     
    #22
  23. kOaMaster

    kOaMaster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,958
    Location:
    Basel/Switzerland
    incredible how easy this is again :)
     
    #23
  24. Ralph

    Ralph Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    Novak won't do well at Wimbledon many are saying, he's not performed well there over the years.

    Up until this last year, he'd made 'only' 2 SEMI-FINALS at Wimbledon.

    Where as on clay, many think he's a better player. That shows in his results on the clay major, the French Open. Obviously his record there until last year would have been better than Wimbledon.

    Oh, hold on... up until last year, he'd made 'only' 2 SEMI-FINALS at the FO.
    This year, he made another. What is to say he won't do that at least at Wimbledon?

    For those writing him off due to his past record, which IMO is still a very good one, do so at your peril. His retrieving, his serve, his forehand and movement have all improved. I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the final and even take it.

    The top 4 sure are going to make it fun this year for us all :)
     
    #24
  25. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

    Joined:
    May 30, 2011
    Messages:
    5,811
    If Djokovic faces Federer in the final it could be tough and will all depend on how well Fed is serving. If Djokovic faces Nadal in the final, easy 3 set beatdown.
     
    #25
  26. tennisenthusiast

    tennisenthusiast Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,595
    No one deserves no. 1 ranking more than Federer. I have seen him in every semi-final since I was born.

    King is going to reclaim is lost possession!
     
    #26
  27. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14,564
    Apart from the guys who have more ranking points than him. Roger has little chance of finishing year end number 1 this year.
     
    #27
  28. Ralph

    Ralph Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    I agree. Although can you imagine if a big server/hitter takes out Ralph/ Djokovic slips up somewhere prior to the semi/quarters, and Roger continues playing as well as he did in the French, only to go and win it?

    It'd make for any interesting rest of season post Wimbledon as Roger would have shortened the distance in points.
     
    #28
  29. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,155
    So long as Dijana's son spanks Roja Federer, No 1 or 2 doesn't really matter! Enough hype around chimp nose already ... hope Dijana's lad sends the No. 3 packing!

    :)
     
    #29
  30. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    Are you hallucinating? There's hardly much hype around gorgeous nose.I think you're just hoping Dijana's lad makes the final because then he would be at a disadvantage on the surface(unlike on clay) if he were to meet Mr.EversoDull. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2011
    #30
  31. Ralph

    Ralph Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,040
    Excuse me, but look to the left. Is this the face of a dull man?

    ;)
     
    #31
  32. ksbh

    ksbh Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,155
    ROFL X 10,000, you're on top of your game today, Mandy!

    :)

     
    #32
  33. glazkovss

    glazkovss Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    862
    I don't mind if someone is ranked N1, even if he didn't win any GS. The system works perfectly, the most deserving player is no.1.
     
    #33
  34. jones101

    jones101 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    4,275
    Location:
    Wales
    If Nadal loses at SF or earlier and Fed wins = Fed no 2.

    Also, just prior to Cincy/Canada, Fed will have a 480 point boost, (Basel and Monte Carlo) are non countables on his rankings, which may make things even tighter.

    This is assuming of course he is able to reach the Final or Win.

    Im curious to see how Djoker handles the first half of next year however!
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011
    #34
  35. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,047
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Current points
    Rafael Nadal: 12,070 points (CHAMPION at 2010 Wimbledon)
    Novak Djokovic: 12,005 points (Semi Final Loser at 2010 Wimbledon)
    Roger Federer: 9,230 points (Quarter Final Loser at 2010 Wimbledon)

    Rafael Nadal points total after 2011 Wimbledon
    Round of 128 Loser: 10,080 points
    Round of 64 Loser: 10,115 points
    Round of 32 Loser: 10,160 points
    Round of 16 Loser 10,250 points
    Quarter Final Loser: 10,430 points
    Semi Final Loser: 10,790 points
    Runner-up: 11,270 points
    CHAMPION: 12,070 points

    Novak Djokovic points total after 2011 Wimbledon
    Round of 128 Loser: 11,295 points
    Round of 64 Loser: 11,330 points
    Round of 32 Loser: 11,375 points
    Round of 16 Loser: 11,465 points
    Quarter Final Loser: 11,645 points
    Semi Final Loser: 12,005 points
    Runner-up: 12,485 points
    CHAMPION: 13,285 points

    Roger Federer points total after 2011 Wimbledon
    Round of 128 Loser: 8,880 points
    Round of 64 Loser: 8,915 points
    Round of 32 Loser: 8,960 points
    Round of 16 Loser: 9,050 points
    Quarter Final Loser: 9,230 points
    Semi Final Loser: 9,590 points
    Runner-up: 10,070 points
    CHAMPION: 10,870 points
     
    #35
  36. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,828
    I agree with Novak taking the #1 spot is inevitable. It is very possible for Novak to re-start his winning streak once the US HC season starts.
     
    #36
  37. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    28,724
    Location:
    Brave New World
    And proud of it ???? (TM)
     
    #37
  38. jrachiever

    jrachiever Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    217
    So if Rafa and Fed are in the same half of the draw, Roger can kick Rafa to #3 by winning Wimbledon. That was a little bit surprising.

     
    #38
  39. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,553
    The difference is that Rafa didn't make the first Major Final, and therefore loses a huge amount of points to Djoko, and the gap closes even more because he loses every time they meet in the 4 Masters. If Rafa had reached the final at the AusO he would not be losing the position, unless Djoko actually took took it.
     
    #39
  40. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    17,090
    Location:
    Toronto
    That would be cringe worthy!
     
    #40
  41. jukka1970

    jukka1970 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,068
    Well that's a big duh. Of course you count all the tournaments, that's the reason that they are weighted different. And since masters are worth exactly half of slams. Then 3 masters and 1 slam is greater then 2 slams.
     
    #41
  42. Sharpshooter

    Sharpshooter Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    922
    You don't seem to understand. I know by the points system he would be in front and hence ranked number 1, BUT the question is how will he be perceived AND will he really feel like he's number 1 when there's another player who has won 2 out of the 3 majors played so far?

    We all know how WTA players who earnt he number 1 ranking without a slam are treated, this would be similar. Yes Djoker has the AO, but since slams are what people perceive to be the harder and more important tournaments to win (in which they are) so how will the media, general tennis followers etc perceive things, will Djoko cop the same or similar question marks that say a Wozniaki or Safina copped?

    I can just see people saying, "wait a minute, Nadal won RG and Wimbledon and he's not number 1? That's crap, the system is wrong etc."

    When a lot of people start talking like that, then it eventually gets to Djoker and then will he truely reel like he is number 1?
     
    #42
  43. srinrajesh

    srinrajesh Guest

    Well few years from now the debate may be more valid.. They may not remember djoker's streak 10-15 years from now. The Bigger titles are what matter most. It's possible Djoker may never win a slam rest of his career. So if he reaches no.1 ranking he would cherish that almost as much as his slams.

    If Nadal goes on to win both Wimby and US open this year and still finishes behind Nole year end .. Its a small possibility (RAFA does hold 3 of the 4 slams currently)
    I would say RAFA deserves the No.1 ranking--They used to have award for Player of the Year - Becker won award in 1989 for winning 2 slams even though Lendl finished no.1 in ranking..
     
    #43
  44. Sneezy

    Sneezy New User

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2011
    Messages:
    70
    I think Djoker will get #1 sooner or later this year, since Nadal has so many points to defend and Nadal does not gain any points for defending them.
     
    #44

Share This Page