Screwball (reverse kicker) serve, does anyone have a good one?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by mtommer, Apr 26, 2009.

  1. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    Last year I started trying to do this for fun. I can kind get it to work sometimes. Maybe 1 in 10. It's by no means fast but today I was getting it to move (not referring to the speed but the kick back in direction after the bounce). Ironically I get far better action on this serve than my pathetic attempts at kick serves. Anyway, I'm curious, is there anybody here or anyone that knows of someone who can actually hit such a serve effectively as a weapon? Any video I could watch to see how they do it?
     
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  2. Failed

    Failed Semi-Pro

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    So you are talking about serve that curves right and bounces left for a righty serve?
     
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  3. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I'm guessing the OP is referring to a twist serve?
     
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  4. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    You use a semi western forehand grip for the screw serve. I know it seems crazy, but it's a crazy kind of serve.
     
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  5. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    The screw serve's spin would be closer to a lefty's slice serve on the ad side than a traditional kick serve. It would be like doing a Verdasco serve without using your left hand.
     
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  6. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    Yes. The arc in the flight path goes from left to right and then on contact kick bounces left. For a rightie, instead of brushing (clock face parallel to the base line) from the center of the ball to three or two o'clock, you brush from the center in towards nine or ten o'clock. (Not necessarily the exact spot but the same direction is what's important).
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
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  7. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    Can you do it well? If you can, would be willing to post a vid. I think it would be fascinating to see this type of serve done well.
     
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  8. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I haven't done it in about 4 years, but when I did, it really took a nice bounce out wide on the ad. It's definitely a different spin from a kick serve.
     
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  9. [d]ragon

    [d]ragon Hall of Fame

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  10. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    its actually a very effective serve, i've hit friends directly in the middle of the chest before in matches when trying to return it, it really throws em off, i might post a youtube vid of me serving it. isn't it called the american twist?
     
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  11. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    On the ad side, it wouldn't bounce out wide, it would bounce back towards the T...
     
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  12. mtommer

    mtommer Hall of Fame

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    Very nice. Thank you. Now that I know it can actually be hit well I'm going to have to try and add a new weapon to my arsenal. I'm really going to have to work on getting my overall serve motion correct now.
     
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  13. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    Reverse slice serve is not the same as reverse kicker serve/reverse twister.

    I cannot even imagine how the swing motion will be like for a reverse twist serve...It is mind bottling...
     
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  14. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Tattoo, you're 100% incorrect. The reverse kick serve bounces wide on the ad.
     
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  15. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    its not that hard, all u do is do your normal motion and hold a mirror image of a slice serve grip, like switch it so it'll put slice on the ball the opposite way, its hard to explain and feels weird in your hand when u swing it, and your opponent can see it coming from a mile away as the racquet face looks crazy :) but its hard to return
     
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  16. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    That's exactly what it is, Lee. I still can't figure out how tatu thinks the ball would bounce toward the middle on a screwball serve to the ad side. Perhaps tatu was thinking of a lefty serving on the ad?
     
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  17. mucat

    mucat Hall of Fame

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    But for a normal twister, you have to toss the ball to the left, let the ball drop a little, swing up and to the right and hit the left side of the ball.

    Now, think the opposite, with the western FH grip, toss the ball to the right, let it drop a little, try to hit the right side of the ball and, swing up and to the left. I feel sharp pain on my right shoulder just thinking about it.

    On the other hand, the reverse slice serve is a lot easier, toss to the right and swing right to left while trying to contact with the other side of the racket face.

    Props to all the guys who can hit this serve.
     
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  18. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    Serve

    I think he's talkin about an American twist serve. I only seen one and played one guy he out in Socal that had one. His serve was sick when I could get it back I really couldn't do much with it. He has righty the ball would kick and then slice to the right instead of the standard righty slice that goes to the left or the standard righty kicker. It wasn't that the pace was fast but it was loaded with spin and would really jump at you.
     
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  19. Leelord337

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    ^^haha that serve sounds nasty, i would love to play against that guy, i love playing big servers
     
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  20. toptalent

    toptalent Rookie

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  21. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    haha yeah that pink sleeveless made him look goofy
     
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  22. GuyClinch

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    Dave Smith shows you how to hit it on tennis one... It's a fun shot.
     
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  23. yanyan

    yanyan New User

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  24. skyzoo

    skyzoo Banned

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    Unreal I'm definitly gonna go practice it
     
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  25. HitItHarder

    HitItHarder Semi-Pro

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    This moves just like a lefty kick serve

    Cool video. I'm a lefty and this serve moves just like my normal kick serve. People have a lot of trouble returning it even though they know it is coming.

    I have found it most effective serving to the duece court down the T. That serve is to the backhand side of a righty and it kicks back into their body. People have a tendancy to over run it and hit jam shots from their belly button that just float. Great for serve and volley or for poaching in doubles.
     
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  26. yanyan

    yanyan New User

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    Please check this video for more info about the left kick (twist) of this serve.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5sgRgQdi8g
     
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  27. ttbrowne

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    I watched a 4.5 doubles match where one guy had one. It was good. It didn't seem to give the other team that much trouble though.
     
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  28. yanyan

    yanyan New User

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    I won a game recently and all the balls landed on the chest of the opponent.
    What was his grip?

    I used the west forehand grip detailed on this link:
    http://www.tennis.com/yourgame/gear/general/general.aspx?id=649
     
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  29. BMC9670

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    The Pro at my club does this pretty well. The first time I was on the receiving end of it he aced me. But, it's really easy to see it coming because of the grip and the open stance/shoulders, so I have been able to handle it ever since.

    I can see how it might be effective in doubles to pull a guy wide and set up your partner.
     
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  30. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    yearp, the "reverse slice" is the Jamaican or American twist... I've heard it called so many different ways. Essentially it's a lefty slice with your right hand. I've been playing with the idea since the summer and I'm capable of doing it with a little bit of warm-up tinkering. It's wicked fun and works as a great jam serve.

    I actually learned how to do it teaching a new student. I was watching his court and was about to correct him when I was like whoah... wait a second let me try that! The simplest way to achieve about a 1-2' break is to take the racquet with a semi-western forehand grip and to windshield wiper the ball. [By no means is this a fast serve] Usually it's pretty obvious to the opponent but if they haven't seen it yet it's a definite surprise. I've been playing with different angles and grips and there is also the possibility of hitting a flat version of this. It doesn't get the show-y break out to the right but if you can get it in and down the T on the Deuce side it's usually enough to register a nice mis-hit.

    As for the reverse kicker, are you referring to the "underspin" serve? It's a variation of flat. Has horrific mechanics but works, I guess. It kind-of looks like a sharp slice on hard-true where the ball just skids about 3'' from the floor. Right?
     
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  31. alidisperanza

    alidisperanza Hall of Fame

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    I'll see if I can get a video of it next time my buddy brings his camera
     
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  32. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I hit this shot on groudstrokes. Never though to try it serving..lol. I usually hit this shot when the ball is lobbed high and I want to chop it back down. Basically it comes at the player with a lot of pace and dips down, but when it bounces it kicks off to the side. I have actually had lower level players completely miss the ball after the bounce because of how it kicks.

    I use a western grip to do it.
     
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  33. yanyan

    yanyan New User

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    Check these 2 videos of the reverse twist serve, which I believe is better than a thousand words:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlMmUTYccso
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q33NblLVVIQ

    I’ve been able to get 4 straight points with this serve, they all landed on the chest of the rival.
    At the beginning, I thought pace was not possible with this kind of serve. However, this is just like hitting a high ball with your forehand, so there is a lot of power there, all you need to do is find it. It almost feels just like were pitching a fast ball in baseball, this is what encouraged me to keep going without giving up, until I found the consistency and power.
    It took 4 months to learn it.
     
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  34. Storm_Kyori

    Storm_Kyori Hall of Fame

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    I've only done this like 3x. Me and my friends would try to learn a lefty serve and this was how we tried it. I have to say it hurt my arm a few times as I didn't know how to hit it. I stopped trying after that. Really wicked to see someone hit it soo cleanly and effectively.
     
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  35. yanyan

    yanyan New User

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  36. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    nvm 10chars
     
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  37. drfredc

    drfredc New User

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    I've had the reverse in my service tricks for a while.

    It's not as complicated as some think. Basically, it's a topspin forehand shot (with a top spin grip) that you hit leaning left & sideways so your racket is high as in a service -- however the motion is basically an arm extended topspin ground stroke masquerading as a serve. The ball toss needs to be slightly left of the left shoulder and perhaps a bit forward, into the court.

    You can hit it anywhere from 9 to 11 o'clock for a righty. 9 gives a big slice spin, 11 gives a reverse twist with hop.

    It's an interesting serve to use in the ad court if you've got someone who is running around outside serves as it kicks back into the body, with huge spin. It's not a killer service to be used all the time -- rather it's something to keep returners off balance. Perhaps one or two times a match... If that.

    If used more than once, it helps to hide your forehand grip change, as that's a dead giveaway what's coming.
     
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  38. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    I think Deja Kitchener has this serve. It almost looks like she is supinating rather than pronating after contact, but the ball after landing definitely jumps to the left. . .and she's a righty.
     
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  39. Lsmkenpo

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    Never heard of her, where is she from and what is her ranking?
     
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  40. DeShaun

    DeShaun Banned

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYltFEcXf24
    Skip to 1:12 to see her serving (to the ad court).

    The ball jumps hard to her opponent's left, yet Deja's followthrough looks to have been that of a heavy slice serve. Maybe you could explain what she's doing.
     
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  41. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    Yep, this girl serves with a SW forehand grip and the dreaded waiters tray motion, which results in a reverse slice.
     
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  42. mntlblok

    mntlblok Professional

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    Dip Drive equivalent?

    I'm thinking that this serve is very similar to Hobden's "dip drive" forehand. If you watch a Rafa or Roddick forehand closely on TV - off a high ball - that ball with curve a *lot* on the way to the other side of the court - and then often "kick" in the opposite direction. The curve in flight is due to swiping "across" the ball and making it spin somewhat around the "vertical" axis. The "kick" comes from the "spiral spin" from going right-to-left over the "top" of the ball (in Roddick's righty case).

    The guy in the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlMmUTYccso is demonstrating early on that it's an eastern backhand grip - which also happens to be a full western forehand grip once you turn the racket over to the forehand side. Wonder what Ben Barker is up to these days. . .

    Had one used against me in a tournament once when the opponents were way up. Not only did it fly weirdly through the air, but it hit and skidded off the service line tape. I was laughing so hard that I barely got a racket on it.

    Kevin
     
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  43. ximian

    ximian Rookie

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    Looks like I'm a little late to the discussion. I took a video of Ilija Bozoljac's reverse serve back at a challenger in 2005 or 2006. He started serving quite frequently like that after going down a set and a break to Gimelstob and being visibly frustrated by the progression of the match. He won pretty much every point with the screwball serve.

    I've just uploaded it to YouTube. It's the only time I've ever seen it used at the professional level in an actual match. They were not very fast, just so completely abnormal and severe of a slice Justin couldn't put anything on the returns (if he returned it at all). I remember Justin was actually standing near the service line to pick up the slice every time Ilija set up in the reverse slice stance.

    Crazy match.

    http://youtu.be/HepCO5XTkmg
     
    #43
  44. ximian

    ximian Rookie

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