Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by TopDawg, Mar 3, 2012.
wow that is huge, he has had a very good summer on the Satellite Tour.
This is a huge hit to the bulldawgs!! It will be devastating to lose Flo, this is the first I have heard of this… Whats the word on the street for his reason of leaving?? I will have to look into this.
Am I missing something here?? Haden was not contributing. But, Cash was top 10 and an All-American in dubs +won a number of SEC singles matches. Lakat is obviously a huge loss...but you must have pretty high standards.
It is strange - his scholarship $$ couldn't possibly be as much as he was getting at State and it's hard to beat playing #1 at an SEC school though I imagine he'll be #1 or #2 at Cal too.
By my count this only leaves 3 guys on the roster as of this minute - Juan Cruz Estevarena, Mate Cutura, and Rishab Agarwal. They must have at least 4 guys coming in but the only 2 I've heard of so far are Florida's Trevor Foshey (TRN 4* UTR 13.24) and Germany's Niclas Braun (UTR 13.63).
Who knows maybe Michael Redlicki ends up in Starkvegas.
Yea thats what its looking like, not sure whats going on… I wasn't as disappointed with the others (maybe Cash but he was hit or miss in singles, much better dubs player) but losing Flo has me worried, something is going on down there and I'm digging to find out… Rishab has had an impressive summer, but surely he is not going to be the go to guy for this team.. Both Cruz and Mate are strong players but after watching them play several times just not sure tennis is their top priority!! Matt and Tanner better get busy cause they have a lot of work ahead of them… MS state has got to be a horrible venue to try and recruit to, so behind in the facility dept...
Juan cruz has transferred out as well. His Facebook says college of charleston
I have heard the coach is not particularly popular amongst the players...
Man that's unbelievable - so just 2 guys coming back. They'll definitely have the funds to go after some guys but if they don't stick around it's a waste.
MC86, you got it from what I am hearing from sources in the know!!
I met the Matt Roberts once. All I will say is, I met the guy once. I thought they had another Tyler JC player coming in, Vaughn Hunter? They may be behind on indoor facilities but everything else is top notch. MSU/Starkville is a cool place, but I'm easy to please and haven't been to SEC campus I did not like. I could see players coming from metropolitan areas having trouble adjusting. On the other hand, I know a number of former MSU players both American and International and they all loved the place. I have a good source and will do a little digging to see if they've had a long history of players leaving early or if its just mutiny on the bounty.
They have not had a long history of people leaving, this has all started under the helm of Matt.. 8 players transferring out in a 2 year period is not very good player retention which shows there is a problem!! Not sure who the new coach will or should be but I would like for it to happen sooner than later!!
Just another sign of a developing program.
Here's Miss. St. new players announcement. http://www.hailstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=16800&ATCLID=210276185. Looks like 3 of the players could replace the 3 starters leaving. How that works out will be interesting to watch. IMO none of the new players replaces Lakat. Never could get any intel on why the 4 current players transferred. In the article notice Robert's references to character and trust.
From what I hear, it's the coach. I've heard others around the league that no one likes playing for him. You would think it would be hard to recruit at all with this trend of players departing sometimes after just one year.
Mazen Osama is now at Alabama per the school's release
Alabama's roster looks very strong now. They will have players in 7-11 lines that will easily insert into the line up and contribute.
To be fair Bogarts and Dumont left for WF under Per Neilson's watch.
Your right, that is a good point!! I am a bulldog fan and initially I was ready to rid Matt as head coach but I have now settled down and wanting to give him some time and see if he can build a program.. I guess only time can tell!!
Roberts seems like a serious dude. Like any coach, not every player is going to match with the coaches style. He's only been at the helm a little more than a year. Given some time they'll probably be fine. While every coach wants that time to get their own players, losing 4 players in the same summer is still stunning to me.
Very interesting, curious why Ole Miss gave up on pursuing, but also no way Osama will be listed as a 20 y.o. freshman, assume he may have 3 yrs at best to play, but not 4
Michael Redlicki is Arkansas-bound
serious talent transferring into the SEC
what happened to the OU commitment?
Don't know - could have been playing position within the lineup or maybe he made a late change in what he wanted his graduate degree to be in (since he already has his undergrad degree from Duke) and OU didn't offer it.
Miss State signed a 5th guy to this year's class - Nuno Borges - could possibly play #1 this coming season.
what's the scoop on this guy? How good of a player is he?
maybe look at another Portuguese player that is at the other MS SEC school, similar background
very similar backgrounds and Ricardo Jorge has been playing at the number 5 spot for Ole Miss, so I guess expecting him to come in and play the number 1 spot is a far cry!! Just trying to feel in the blanks for the Ms State roster
Jorge's career high ITF junior ranking was 594. Borges was ranked 44 this year and is still ranked 49. To suggest his background is 'very similar' to Jorge is a bit of a stretch...
I will be the first to admit I am new to this college recruitment stuff but I really enjoy watching them.. That is a big difference I would agree. I was mainly looking at their junior ranks within their country which was comparable.
What do you guys look at when assessing a future player? What are the most important predictors of success? What is ITF? I see some of these guys have ATP points, what exactly do you have to do to get an ATP point?
Would someone mind giving me a dummy 101 lesson on this stuff?
I look at a combination of Tennis.Recruiting.Net (Americans), Universal Tennis Ratings, & ITF Rankings. ITF is International Tennis Federation which is the world governing body of tennis and they do world rankings for juniors.
TRN is good for comparing Americans to each other because it'll show you results by Star Level (Blue Chip, 5-star, etc). TRN is great for looking at schools to see who they've signed over the last several years plus TRN is the place to go to see where someone has committed to play in college
ITF is good for looking at both American and Internationals however not all guys play ITF events so you can have some good players with no ITF junior ranking because they decided to play local events and not spend the $$ to travel to ITF events. Notre Dame's Quentin Monaghan, Ohio State's Chris Diaz, and North Carolina's Brett Clark are a few example of guys that are good players (top 3 in lineup) that didn't have an ITF junior ranking. Texas had 2 starters last year with no ITF jr ranking as well (Adrien Berkowicz/Clement Homs). Another thing with the ITF JR rankings is it combines singles and doubles into one ranking so you could have a guy that was in the top 100 yet never made much of a run in singles but cleaned up in doubles. Also when looking at someone's results you have to look at the level of competition they faced. The tournaments go from Grade A, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 with Grand Slams and tournaments like the Orange Bowl being Grade A and then Roehampton/USTA International Spring Championships/Etc as Grade 1s and so forth. You can have someone in the top 100 that has cleaned up at the Grade 4s and 5s but never gets out of qualies at the Grade A and 1 events. A couple of years ago Purdue was starting 5 guys that had high ITF Jr rankings of 100 or better and they didn't make the NCAA tournament - lots of guys that did well and picked up points at lower grade events but it didn't translate to wins against guys that had top 100 rankings playing grade A and 1 events. ITF is best for looking at historical info because it has all results from ITF events which all Pro Futures events are ITF tournaments.
Universal Tennis is becoming better and better with its ratings by giving you an idea of how a guy from Ecuador matches up with a guy from Idaho because the UTR takes into account all matches played (high school, college, pro). The best of the best in college have UTRs in the high 14s and a few in the low 15s though anything over 14 is really good. In my opinion if you see someone with a UTR of over 13.50 they can be top half lineup guys at 95% of D1 schools. My conference championship recap of some of the small conferences will show you the UTRs for guys at those schools. UTRs aren't as reliable for those that haven't played many matches over the last year or so. Universal Tennis doesn't have historical UTRs so you can see that a guy beat another a year ago but it doesn't show you what the UTR was then it only shows what it is now. Universal Tennis also doesn't show you where the match was played and on what surface.
As far as what it takes to get an ATP point - it's a combination of skill and luck of the draw. There are a lot of good guys that don't have an ATP point because by being unranked they almost always have to go through qualies which can be 4 matches in a 3 days (or 1 match if you're willing to spend the $$ to play somewhere like Gabon) then they still have to win a 1st round match to get a point. At the Futures level you don't earn any points for qualifying for the main draw while you do at the Challenger and ATP level. So you could go say 16-4 in a 4-week period and still get 0 points if all 16 of those wins were in qualies with the 4 losses in R1. On the flip-side you could have a guy get a wild card into a Future and by luck of the draw he gets matched up against another wild card that is some 40 year old club pro or maybe a 20 year old who is the son of one of the sponsors and he gets a win and the 1 point that goes with it.
So to sum it all up I personally look at a combination of all the above but the biggest thing is how competitive were they in the upper level events against top flight talent. To a degree you also have to look at playing surface too - you can have a guy that is a beast on clay but just average on hard courts.
He made it to the 2nd round of Wimbledon Jrs, 2nd round of Roehampton, semis of a grade 1 in Venezuela, quarters of a grade 1 in France and Spain. I'd expect him to play no worse than #3 and probably #1 or #2.
thanks TopDawg, I really appreciate that!!! Its even more complicated than I expected lol Man you really have to be on top of it to keep up with whats going on with so many different players playing so many different matches/locations!! I thought you lived in Tn, have you moved to Mo?? Either way if you get down to Ms for a state or Ole Miss match let me know as I attend them frequently..
IMO roberts' biggest flaw is simply not being Per N. Nearly impossible for a young asst. to come in and have the respect that a guy like Per did from the team. Then he tries to assert himself and they all bail. MSU will be fine - he just needs his own players and some time.
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