Semenya to discover fate today

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Sentinel, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    South African world women's 800 metres champion Caster Semenya is set to hear the result of a gender verification test at a media conference in Johannesburg on Thursday.
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    The conference at 14:00 UK time will be hosted by South Africa Sports Minister Makhenkesi Stofile.
    Semenya, 19, has not run competitively since undergoing the tests at the Berlin world championships last August.


    http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09062010/58/semenya-set-discover-fate.html
     
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  2. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    My reaction or view: I hope they let her run competitively.
     
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  3. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Why can't (s)he be judged on what "parts" (s)he has? If it's a male object, than strip the medal, but if it's a female sexual organ, apologize and move on FFS!
     
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  4. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    NickC, iirc, a large number of her tribe and i mean over 50% have both organs to some extent. Hermaphrodites. Not sure about her. Seems her parents had one looks at her and said she was a girl.
    Then it seems her body produces a higher than "normal" amount of testosterone. But that amount may be qiute normal for her tribe.
    Again who defines normal. Who defines at what stage one is not a woman. It's very subjective and biased towards a definition of normal.
     
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  5. Fee

    Fee Legend

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  6. NickC

    NickC Professional

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    Really? I figured it'd be quite clear cut, no? I mean, if (s)he's got a large set up top, then it's a she, but if (s)he's got a baseball bat downstairs, then it's a male. If (s)he's got both, to any extent, then god save us all.


    What a bunch of jackasses. A big thumbs down to them.
     
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  7. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Agree with you. They should let her compete with the men. There is no reason she should be banned from competing because of this, she did nothing wrong.
     
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  8. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    Has no chance of beating dudes. Her times were no where near close enoogh.

    They just let her run but let the rest of the field take sterooids and HGH to make up the difference.
     
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  9. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Is this being broadcast in the Maury Povich Show?
     
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  10. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    I agree wholeheartedly. If I saw that thing running behind me I think I would beat the World Record, and I'm lazy as a rock.
     
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  11. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    forgot to quote this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
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  12. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Its not like the other women (and men) aren't taking drugs to enhance their performance. How many Olympic medal winning American sprinters have been caught in the last 10 or 20 years.

    Her advantage (IF ANY) is natural, not aided by banned substances. She has as much advantage (if any) as a tall person has in basketball over shorter people.

    Are we going to bar all people over 6 feet (or whatever the average is) from competing in basketball, since they have an unfair advantage over the "normal" average ?
     
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  13. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Deleted comment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
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  14. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    It's easy for us "normal" people to judge others but here is someone who I actually knew in my running days. I accidentally came across this while googling another athlete, and to my shock find that the girl committed suicide due to torture by others.

    http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19991030/ige30096.html

    She was a short girl with a manly sort of face but very nice as a person.
    Worked very hard and was a prominent distance runner. I had no idea that she ended her life...

     
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  15. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    That's a very sad story. If there was any possibility Semenya would read this forum, I obviously wouldn't have made the silly comment. Regardless, it isn't making a positive contribution to the forum, so I'll delete it.
     
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  16. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    ^ I didn;t mean you, TLW. A lot of folks made unkind comments in the previous thread too, that went down with the R&R section.
     
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  17. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Oh, OK Herr Sentinel. It was a silly comment I made, what with the nuts comment and the Planters Mr. Peanut picture. It's probably good I deleted it. LOL.

    I'm not familiar with the other thread you mention, but I'm sure it got really rough.

    P.S.: See how meek and compliant I am when I'm around you now? You shouldn't have mentioned your mighty banhammer. You've turned me into a common puss. :)
     
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  18. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    So its fair to separate athletes based on the appearance of visual sex organs, but its not fair to separate them based on the internal sex organs?
     
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  19. Fee

    Fee Legend

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    When they say they are doing a full examination and 'running tests' to determine gender, its not just a matter of having Semenya strip for a visual inspection. They are probably doing an ultrasound as well as a series of hormone tests to determine her gender (or her dominant gender if she is a hermaphrodite). She could very well be fully female and just have a hormone disorder that causes her to produce more testosterone than average females, giving her a slightly masculine appearance (she wouldn't be the first to suffer from that).

    She runs in tight spandex bike shorts and those don't have any hiding places. There are plenty of pictures available on a google image search.

    Anyway, it's still a massive fail by the governing bodies. They owe her financial compensation, in my opinion.
     
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  20. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    The point is, she could have testes inside of her that make her 75% male, yet people will say she has a right to compete with women solely based on whats visible outside.
     
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  21. Fee

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    Right, she could, but testes alone don't make her 75% male, depends on what else she's got and her hormone levels. I think you and I are agreeing in principle. It goes both ways, for gender neutral men and women, it cannot be determined by external exam alone and they should use all of the medical tools available to make these types of determinations. But that doesn't take 10 months, this should have been over in October.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
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  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The first part of her name indicates she is a man.
     
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  23. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    You're an idiot.
    With all due respect, of course.
     
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  24. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Show some originality, man. That joke was done in the old thread.
     
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  25. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Good point. And i don't have an answer. But first lets have internal sex organs proved.

    Largely from what one sees, that's how it goes - which is not to say I endorse it. You have wheelchair category for people without 2 legs, you have races for the blind ...
     
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  26. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Perhaps so, but historically many inventions have been created almost simultaneously by two different parties unknowing of each other's efforts. The fact that Suresh's joke is in horrible taste doesn't imply that he also copied it (although I wouldn't put it beyond him.) :)
     
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  27. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    WARNING: The following message exhibits an appalling level of black humor (akin to something that might have come out of the mind of Eric Cartman.) Do nor read it if you are a wussy prude and tend to be offended easily.

    LOL. I always thought those competitions were pretty funny, but I can come up with different ways to make them even better. Like adding some speed bumps for the wheelchair races, or propping cactuses at random places in different tracks for the blind races. If you are going to make fun of handicapped people by making them compete with each other, at least do it right.
     
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  28. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    What always bothered/puzzled me was that we treat physically handicapped people with respect (real or not) but society mocks and almost tortures mentally handicapped or "deviant" people.

    ANyway, coming back to topic, in my professional circle an article suddenly popped up about Alan Turing's chemical castration. Since raiden had earlier raised a point about internal testes as against external organs .. what if Castor does have internal testes. These could be removed surgically or chemically so as to make her "technically" female. Would that be acceptable, raiden ?
     
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  29. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    TLW, I haven't seen any wheelchair races, or blind races so i can't say how funny they are.

    btw, We do have a wheelchair tennis player (Mr Blond) on board, he actually built a tennis court in his house backyard. We only came to know he is a wheelchair player because someone asked him why there was some large entrance point in his tennis court. (He had started a thread and shown pics of the entire process, and the final result).


    I see all this from the human angle, while others see it from a competitive fairness angle. To me the human is more important. There's way too much suffering in the world, to add more by labeling and categorizing people. Just my 2 Scottish pence.
     
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  30. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Very true, very true. My psychiatrist told me about my multiple personality, and then the SOB started sending me multiple bills. I got pissed off. Then I got sad. Then I laughed and had a burrito. :)
     
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  31. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    I actually admire people that live and love life. Life can be tough, but most often we just make it tougher than it needs to be on ourselves. I think some people with handicaps actually see and attain a meaning in life that otherwise they would be unable to achieve. As if they had been freed from certain constraints through their handicap, which at first might sound somewhat paradoxical. Does that make any sense?

    I also hope I'm not irking anybody with my politically incorrect jokes about wheelchair and blind races either. Nothing further from my intent.
     
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  32. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    I just read a day back about someone who said this -- trying to remember. He/she was able to appreciate life much more due to some handicap. Let's see if i can recall it. Could it have been Stephen Hawking --- not sure :confused:
     
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  33. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Stephen Hawking? It very well could be.

    I think Stephen Hawking had an affair with one of his nurses. LOL

    [SH's Computer Voice] Come here, you naughty naughty girl. Let me show you the secrets of the Cosmos. GRRRRRR

    Hopefully she can't complain that he moves too much while sleeping, eh? :)
     
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  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I didn't know about the old thread.

    The eye was invented independently some 7 times in the course of evolution. Doesn't mean the last one has no originality.
     
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  35. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    As we say on this side, "a day late and a dollar short." Would have been the right answer before Semenya was able to develop the muscle mass.
     
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  36. Dave M

    Dave M Hall of Fame

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    I get the warning but do you think somebody is controlling the wheelchair sporting events for "normal" peoples amusement? If thats the case then you have some issues to deal with.
    As for the original topic, is there a reason the press release was delayed?
    If she'd been bourn elsewhere they hormone things would of been picked up when he was a child, it's not about reproduction organs it's about the structue of your body and if that gives an unfair advantage against the other competitors in your events. Steriods are banned in sports in some cases to stop an athlete having more of a specific hormone that she may be making naturally, not her fault but not fair on the others either.
     
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  37. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I Would say, when in doubt, they must compet at the higher level. So if they don't have the ability to accurately determine whether she is female enough, then she must compete with the men.
     
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  38. aceX

    aceX Hall of Fame

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    These athletic governing bodies take ages to do anything. A runner from my country got bronze in the 1500m in Beijing, and the gold medalist tested positive for a banned substance. It took more than a year for the second sample to be tested and found positive (leading to my countryman being upgraded to the silver)
     
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  39. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Of course not. This was a complete joke. I think I have watched too much South Park. If you are not familiar with it, you won't get it.

    I think that handicapped sports are neither more nor less commendable than regular sports. Handicapped sports deserve just as much respect in my opinion, even if they will never achieve the same kind of mainstream success as non-handicapped sports.
     
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  40. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Raiden, I meditated on your statement, and after some insights, I wonder why sex organs are so important. In any case, they are vestigial, aren't they ?
     
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  41. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    suresh, you've gotta stop watch Discovery Kids and Nat Geo all the time ! You were much better when your only contributions were the "Federer should retire" threads :lol: (j/k)
     
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  42. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Not in my case! :)
     
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  43. Dave M

    Dave M Hall of Fame

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    Fair enough, I somehow managed to miss the southpark bit, didn't mean to jump on you if i came acos a bit "heavy"! Cartman as a policeman is actually on of my favourite comedy sketches of th emi 90s, "step out of the car plase sir..............."
     
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  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    There is a recent program on the Science channel that should interest you. I have recorded it, but not watched it yet. It is about whether God could have created the universe or it all happened by chance. I guess the "Science" channel needs its money too (though I should have already known it from the paranormal events programs which offer zero evidence yet always end with a reassuring note that anything is possible).
     
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  45. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Dave,

    You didn't come across heavy at all. I honestly need to start toning down my jokes, because some times they are too much into black humor territory.

    "Respect my authorita!" Cartman is awesome. :)
     
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  46. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    That's funny and pathetic at the same time. The Science Channel is the final authority on the existence of God. LOL.

    Science can't even cure the common cold yet. We don't understand how a simple virus works, yet we have the answers to God? LMFAO. Sorry, but this is just too much. :)
     
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  47. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That is not science, it is medicine.

    People confuse applications of science with the scientific method.
     
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  48. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    My dear chap, why would it interest me? Some scientific thought that *starts off* on half-baked premises, by biased people. You are very correct. Today everyone is into making money. The truth is not important. Money is the real religion and God.

    I already know the answer to this one, so not interested in a very narrow view to a situation that needs stepping back and "looking".
     
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  49. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Most of you atheists also confuse religion* with God. :evil:

    (* or should I say its current state).
     
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  50. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Banned

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    Sorry, I was under the mistaken impression that Medicine fell under Science, whereas God fell under Theology. Now I know it's the other way around. Thanks! :)
     
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