Serve Analysis: Where do I go from here

[Demented]

I have 2 serves in this clip, one is ~90 mph and the second is ~100 mph. I need a list of small things to do to fix my motion.I realize I don't use my legs very well, and my rotation could be better. I'm generating the vast majority of my power through shoulder and pronation. I've only been playing tennis for 18 months really and contemplating going up to 3.5 for next season, I'd really like to be able to add more consistency to my motion even if it slows me down.

Also, I do that weird left calf raise during my trophy stance, I don't know how to correct it. I've tried to forceably remove it from my motion and it messes up my rhythm. I think may I lift my heel to prevent my lower back from hurting when I lean back. Where should I start? Stance, leg push off, rotation, backbend, a coach?

 

[Chas Tennis]

The racket is facing the sky. A high level serve has the racket edge facing the ball around this time of the serve.

This could be a Waiter's Tray Error which also has the racket facing the sky.
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/big_l_student.php

There are many threads with this subject. Search: internal shoulder rotation Chas

Search: Waiter's Tray Camera behind

There is a way to hold your shoulder and upper arm to reduce the risk of shoulder impingement for a high level serve. See the Todd Ellenbecker video "Rotator Cuff Injury". You can see the upper arm to shoulder orientation in pictures and videos probably of all ATP servers with high level serves, as shown in the Hi Tech webpage. Your shoulders are too level for a high level serving technique.

There is a lot of material on this subject in this forum.

 

[Demented]

Ok, I see what you're saying. I think I'm pronating my entire arm as early as possible to build extra speed with my bicep. In that picture, I'm already probably 30% through my pronation or more, that's why the racket isn't on edge. I'll try and work on fixing that. Now, I went and looked at the proper shoulder angle, and I'm just not sure I'm capable of lifting my right shoulder higher/lowering the left without effecting my lower back. I have a reoccuring issue with the muscle that goes from my hip, up my lower spine to my bottom rib. When you lean left to generating that angle, you're maximally stretching that muscle which ends up hurting me a lot afterwards. I have a feeling I've developed my service motion around protecting my lowerback/right hip/SI joint region.

 

[Mongolmike]

I think you need a new radar gun, or whatever you are using to record your service speed.

 

[shindemac]

I think you need a new radar gun, or whatever you are using to record your service speed.

There's no radar gun on the court.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Ok, I see what you're saying. I think I'm pronating my entire arm as early as possible to build extra speed with my bicep. In that picture, I'm already probably 30% through my pronation or more, that's why the racket isn't on edge. I'll try and work on fixing that. Now, I went and looked at the proper shoulder angle, and I'm just not sure I'm capable of lifting my right shoulder higher/lowering the left without effecting my lower back. I have a reoccuring issue with the muscle that goes from my hip, up my lower spine to my bottom rib. When you lean left to generating that angle, you're maximally stretching that muscle which ends up hurting me a lot afterwards. I have a feeling I've developed my service motion around protecting my lowerback/right hip/SI joint region.

If you have a physical limitation then your technique will be one of a kind. I point out what I think are differences between the typical high level serve technique and the poster's serve video. I don't know how anyone could know what you can do due to your unknown issues. Maybe a well qualified Sports Medicine Dr would know best.

The bicep does not do pronation.

An inexpensive book on Kinesiology is Manual of Structural Kinesiology, Thompson, Flloyd, 14th edition, about $10 used for this excellent college text.

 

[tenniswright]

Ok, I see what you're saying. I think I'm pronating my entire arm as early as possible to build extra speed with my bicep. In that picture, I'm already probably 30% through my pronation or more, that's why the racket isn't on edge. I'll try and work on fixing that. Now, I went and looked at the proper shoulder angle, and I'm just not sure I'm capable of lifting my right shoulder higher/lowering the left without effecting my lower back. I have a reoccuring issue with the muscle that goes from my hip, up my lower spine to my bottom rib. When you lean left to generating that angle, you're maximally stretching that muscle which ends up hurting me a lot afterwards. I have a feeling I've developed my service motion around protecting my lowerback/right hip/SI joint region.

It looks pretty good. I'd start by making sure you're keeping the continental grip. The bottom of the hand may be sliding on you. That waiters tray problem could be as simple to fix as keeping the continental.

I'd also consider getting some weight transfer into the motion. Transfer back and then transfer forward. Bend as you transfer forward. It should also develop more rhythm in the motion, and you won't have to put any stress on the hips to do it. The forward move should feel like you're riding a wave.

Hopefully some of this will help! Your game looks really good for having just picked up the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Demented]

I think you need a new radar gun, or whatever you are using to record your service speed.

I used the frame counting method to determine an approximate speed, 14.75(@30 fps) frames from racket contact to bounce. Seems pretty straight forward based on the speed calculator made in another thread on here.

 

[Demented]

If you have a physical limitation then your technique will be one of a kind. I point out what I think are differences between the typical high level serve technique and the poster's serve video. I don't know how anyone could know what you can do due to your unknown issues. Maybe a well qualified Sports Medicine Dr would know best.

The bicep does not do pronation.

An inexpensive book on Kinesiology is Manual of Structural Kinesiology, Thompson, Flloyd, 14th edition, about $10 used for this excellent college text.

You're right, that was just a brain fart, I meant my tricep.

 

[Chas Tennis]

You're right, that was just a brain fart, I meant my tricep.

Whoops! Maybe the biceps do have some role for pronation under some circumstances. CORRECTION - No, Biceps can supinate the forearm.

But here are the small 'pronator' muscles in the forearm that mainly are responsible for pronation.

Search: pronation muscles pictures
https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...WNpurOAhVFKB4KHXjQDAoQsAQIHQ&biw=1041&bih=685

(deleted image)

You can look up muscles and see what joint motions each muscle can perform. Google it.

 

[LeeD]

Why don't you compare your service motion to the motions of the pro tennis player's? Or even D-1 college player's?
You will see, your motion is lacking in almost all areas except for fast swing speeds, so probably your numbers are slightly inflated. Lots of top D-1 college player's can only hit around 120 mph for their fastest serves, and their motions are far superior in every way compared to yours.

 

[Demented]

Why don't you compare your service motion to the motions of the pro tennis player's? Or even D-1 college player's?
You will see, your motion is lacking in almost all areas except for fast swing speeds, so probably your numbers are slightly inflated. Lots of top D-1 college player's can only hit around 120 mph for their fastest serves, and their motions are far superior in every way compared to yours.

Yeah but most pros are adding some amount of spin to the ball, if I do my same motion with top spin or slice added then it drops from that speed to like 85ish. Also, I'm well aware that my motion isn't all that good in terms of recruiting extra power from my legs/rotation, I need suggestions on which things to work on first. Do you work from the ground up or wrist down when fixing the kinetic chain? Also, outside of the power arena in general, I want tips to make my serve consistent. My first serve percentage goes way down as I get tired later in matches, I'm 100% sure I'm using too much arm/shoulder muscle to make that speed happen unnaturally.

 

[r2473]

What do you think your first serve % is on average?

 

[tenniswright]

Yeah but most pros are adding some amount of spin to the ball, if I do my same motion with top spin or slice added then it drops from that speed to like 85ish. Also, I'm well aware that my motion isn't all that good in terms of recruiting extra power from my legs/rotation, I need suggestions on which things to work on first. Do you work from the ground up or wrist down when fixing the kinetic chain? Also, outside of the power arena in general, I want tips to make my serve consistent. My first serve percentage goes way down as I get tired later in matches, I'm 100% sure I'm using too much arm/shoulder muscle to make that speed happen unnaturally.

The kinetic chain concept implies that everything after the initial cause is a reaction, a byproduct. So focus on weight transfer, legs and hips. Everything after that is a reaction to the thing before it in the chain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LeeD]

Yeah but most pros are adding some amount of spin to the ball, if I do my same motion with top spin or slice added then it drops from that speed to like 85ish. Also, I'm well aware that my motion isn't all that good in terms of recruiting extra power from my legs/rotation, I need suggestions on which things to work on first. Do you work from the ground up or wrist down when fixing the kinetic chain? Also, outside of the power arena in general, I want tips to make my serve consistent. My first serve percentage goes way down as I get tired later in matches, I'm 100% sure I'm using too much arm/shoulder muscle to make that speed happen unnaturally.

Nothing there that hasn't happenned to EVERY player who has gone from beginner to 3.5 levels of tennis.
The fix is a whole reworking, so it doesn't matter where to start, just get started. The good point is that you have a live arm, so you're ahead of 90% of the tennis population.
Almost every pro hit's a flat first serve, a topspin first serve, a topslice first serve, and a kick first serve. Look at the video needed for the serve you want to improve. Few pros have a true slice, a reverse slice, or a backspin first serve.
Consistency comes thru practice, nothing else. Hit hundreds of thousands of serves with the correct unchanging motion, to each of the 3 locations (left, right, and center), to both service boxes, from singles and doubles positions. Not thousands, HUNDREDS of thousands. After several hundred thousands, you'll be very lucky to hit your fastest serves in better than 55% of the time in match play. You should hit your various second serves IN at least 95% of the time.

 

[Demented]

What do you think your first serve % is on average?

It depends on the type of tennis I'm playing. I have video of some of my entire matches, I charted one where I was hitting 75% or higher with some added topspin but then as I got progressively more tired it dropped to maybe 40% by the 12th game of the 1st set. I do better in doubles, I can usually maintain >50% the entire match. As with everyone, some days I'm on, some days I'm not. I live in southern Louisiana and it's been very hot and humid for the last 3 months. My decline in serving percentage can be directly correlated to how much sweat is pouring out of me. Once the handle gets slippery then I'm done(this is with tac grip, anti-persperent hand gel and multiple towels).

 

[r2473]

That's a great percentage. My advice is change nothing.

 

[Limpinhitter]

Yeah but most pros are adding some amount of spin to the ball, if I do my same motion with top spin or slice added then it drops from that speed to like 85ish. Also, I'm well aware that my motion isn't all that good in terms of recruiting extra power from my legs/rotation, I need suggestions on which things to work on first. Do you work from the ground up or wrist down when fixing the kinetic chain? Also, outside of the power arena in general, I want tips to make my serve consistent. My first serve percentage goes way down as I get tired later in matches, I'm 100% sure I'm using too much arm/shoulder muscle to make that speed happen unnaturally.

You ask good questions. I'll give you my input on what to do, but, no time for the why's tonight. If you do these things, all of your body parts will do what they need to do without you having to think about them.

1. I recommend a Continental, or Eastern backhand grip.
2. Your tossing motion should be perpendicular to the target line to promote getting your back turned toward the target.
3. When your toss is at its peak, slide your left hip toward the right side net post which will promote the tilting back of your spine.
4. At the peak of your toss, your left shoulder should be as high above your right shoulder as possible, and your opponent should be able to read your name if it were written across your back like a jersey. See the pic of Sampras below.
5. From this turned and tilted position, rotate your right shoulder up to the ball dragging your arm and racquet through contact so that the shoulders reverse positions with your right shoulder being above your left shoulder. The upper body rotates like a cylinder that is tilted back.
6. Keep your arm and grip loose and relaxed through contact. Think of the swing as a throw. You are throwing the racquet at the ball.
7. I also recommend separating the timing of the toss and the throw of the racquet e.g. Sampras. See second pic below.

If you can achieve something close to this set up position in the first pic, the serve is almost self executing from there.

The pic of Sampras below illustrates what I mean by separating the timing of the toss and throw of the racquet. You toss, and then you throw.

 

[Demented]

I can't lean back anywhere near as far as Pete is in that pic. My lower back simply isn't strong enough. Not even halfway. Though I will say that it's become better than it was since I started playing. Maybe another 18 months. You can see me pushing up on my left toes in order to generate artificial bend from uneven hips. I had serious issues with my right SI joint and my lower spine prior to taking up soccer and tennis. I decide to start playing sports at 30 to try and get my body in better shape. I'm a computer programmer by day(and gamer by night) for 20 years now. It takes a toll.

 

[Aretium]

I can't lean back anywhere near as far as Pete is in that pic. My lower back simply isn't strong enough. Not even halfway. Though I will say that it's become better than it was since I started playing. Maybe another 18 months.

0% to do with the back. All legs. Bend yo knees.

 

[Demented]

Your back has to be strong enough to hold your weight as you bend your knees. Pete's back is at a 45 degree angle to the ground.

 

[RogueFLIP]

IMO, your first priority would be to unlock your back and hips. Your body as you seem to know is essentially bracing itself bc it's protecting itself. Until you change that locked habit, you'll always wind up using your arms to generate pace.

And also, until you unlock your back and hips, it may be hard to coordinate an efficient firing pattern to enable the kinetic chain.

 

[Muppet]

What I can contribute is how to improve your toss in such a way as to lead your knees, hips, and back toward the ball. If you assume the start of your motion by rocking to your back foot and pointing the toe of your front foot, rocking forward while beginning the toss will give you smooth momentum. During the toss, slightly bend the knees, then bow the hips forward during your rotation. A slight curvature of the back will help you see the ball and load your back swing.

Unfortunately, there are two chains of motion happening simultaneously in the serve. One controls the ball and the other controls the racquet. By incorporating as many motions as possible into each of the two chains of motion, you will simplify your serve a great deal. It will still take a lot of coordination and practice though.

If you are talented with good visualization abilities and mental practice, Youtube videos can be very helpful to you. If not, you should try to find an instructor who teaches the serve well. And if there's something else I'm missing, please excuse me. I take things very literally.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I can't lean back anywhere near as far as Pete is in that pic. My lower back simply isn't strong enough. Not even halfway. Though I will say that it's become better than it was since I started playing. Maybe another 18 months. You can see me pushing up on my left toes in order to generate artificial bend from uneven hips. I had serious issues with my right SI joint and my lower spine prior to taking up soccer and tennis. I decide to start playing sports at 30 to try and get my body in better shape. I'm a computer programmer by day(and gamer by night) for 20 years now. It takes a toll.

I gave you the fundamentals of a good serve. I'm not an orthopedist or a PT, although I do have some knowledge about that. There are certain stretching exercises that you should do in warm up that will protect your lower back from muscle spasm.

Having said that, that set up position by Sampras requires strength in the legs and abdominals, not the lower back. The abdominals stabilize the lower back. If you can't achieve that position now, and you want to improve your serve, then my suggestion is to do the leg and abdominal strengthening exercises needed to achieve that position.

 

[Demented]

I'm probably not explaining very well, it's more likely a lack of flexibility in my back muscles, not an actual lack of strength. I agree that while leaning back, your abs are responsible for maintaining the position but while in that pose, my central lower back feels really uncomfortable and spasmy. I've been working on it for a couple of years, with some physical therapy and stretches. The problem is that it's a really hard spot to stretch safely. It's also very hard to do those stretches pre-match. If I'm at home first I can use a bed or yoga mat but at the court it's pretty rough.

 

[Raul_SJ]

I would suggest the FYB Serve Course with Dr Mark Kovacs.

Kovacs mentions that high level servers make contact at ~110 degrees shoulder abduction. You can compare your contact position to high level serve. I am not good at measuring angles so let me know your calculations and whether it conforms.

Elite tennis players generate racket velocities of approximately 38 to 47 m·s-1 (85 to 105 miles·h-1).

The mean shoulder abduction just before contact is approximately 100°,which is similar to the 100° ± 10° angle to produce maximal ball velocity and minimal shoulder joint loading in baseball pitching. This suggests an optimum contact point of 110° ± 15° for the tennis serve.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3445225/

 

[Digital Atheist]

OP, no need to panic just yet.

Having said that, that set up position by Sampras requires strength in the legs and abdominals, not the lower back. The abdominals stabilize the lower back.

For sure.

[..] If you can't achieve that position now, and you want to improve your serve, then my suggestion is to do the leg and abdominal strengthening exercises needed to achieve that position.

Exercises can't hurt, assuming they're the right ones and don't aggravate any pre-existing injury.

I'm going to offer a different perspective; Sampras is held as the gold standard for the tennis serve, widely regarded as the best of all time (no arguments here). But that doesn't mean you have to do everything he does in order to make dramatic improvements on your current status. Given your back issue (spasms or whatever), I wouldn't focus on achieving the same spine angle as Sampras, as in my opinion it's not an absolute requirement for hitting a very high level serve. Most ATP servers do reach an angle similar to Sampras, but not all, and recently I was surprised to discover just how vertical Serena Williams, Karolina pliskova, and Milos Raonic were during their motions.

Vidoes might help:

youtube.com/watch?v=hoLNgrlnhok8
youtube.com/watch?v=AshpV0lddGo
youtube.com/watch?v=qLweVXbYdag

Surely your back can handle something like this:

I need a list of small things to do to fix my motion

Start with your toss and tossing arm (compare to a high level serve) and go from there. I think the other posters are right in that, other than your live arm (which is great), you need to rework it from the ground up. At it's most basic the list is as follows:

youtube.com/watch?v=460AXj7qSAQ&list=PLDD24372A5B61992D

But it sounds like you're serious about getting better, so perhaps the club pro should be consulted. It would certainly make the process quicker and less painful. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Limpinhitter]

I'm probably not explaining very well, it's more likely a lack of flexibility in my back muscles, not an actual lack of strength. I agree that while leaning back, your abs are responsible for maintaining the position but while in that pose, my central lower back feels really uncomfortable and spasmy. I've been working on it for a couple of years, with some physical therapy and stretches. The problem is that it's a really hard spot to stretch safely. It's also very hard to do those stretches pre-match. If I'm at home first I can use a bed or yoga mat but at the court it's pretty rough.

Stretching the back itself is not enough. Your focus should be on stretching your hamstrings and hip flexors. Almost all lower back pain can be resolved from these two stretches. You don't need a yoga mat for that.

 

[mbm0912]

The racket is facing the sky. A high level serve has the racket edge facing the ball.

This could be a Waiter's Tray Error which also has the racket facing the sky.
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/big_l_student.php

There are many threads with this subject. Search: internal shoulder rotation Chas

Search: Waiter's Tray Camera behind

There is a way to hold your shoulder and upper arm to reduce the risk of shoulder impingement for a high level serve. See the Todd Ellenbecker video "Rotator Cuff Injury". You can see the upper arm to shoulder orientation in pictures and videos probably of all ATP servers with high level serves, as shown in the Hi Tech webpage. Your shoulders are too level for a high level serving technique.

There is a lot of material on this subject in this forum.

Don't think there's any "could be" about. Could be a pancake slap (PS) I guess..

 

[Chas Tennis]

My opinion -

1) With high level strokes no one knows exactly how injuries occur.

2) Only with high level stroke techniques, there are some associations of certain injuries with certain tennis stroke techniques. For example, Golfer's Elbow for serve and forehand.

3) Since the OP has an unknown serving technique there can be no known associations of injuries and his technique. There is almost nothing known about the stresses of his unknown technique.

4) Since the OP has back pain his capability for serving motions is not known.

4) The term "over use" is most often used when not much else is known about how the injury originally started. Was there a technique error on one stroke? Was the original injury, if felt, allowed to properly heal?

 

[Demented]

Yeah but when people talk about pancake serving, you usually don't start in continental. The racket is edge on in my hand and I appear to be pronating immediately as my swing begins.

 

[atp2015]

I think you need a new radar gun, or whatever you are using to record your service speed.

He said ~90 and ~100. He is correct after you round out to the nearest 10 after multiplying by 2.

 

[heninfan99]

clearly it is very accurate

I used the frame counting method to determine an approximate speed, 14.75(@30 fps) frames from racket contact to bounce. Seems pretty straight forward based on the speed calculator made in another thread on here.

 

[Demented]

He said ~90 and ~100. He is correct after you round out to the nearest 10 after multiplying by 2.

You're free to check my speed calculation from the video. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I verified the method by checking some pro hits with displayed radar and it comes out very close. You take the frame count from ball impact on the racket head and then ball bounce. In this case I'm using 14.75 out of 30 frames because contact happened mid frame. You estimate the ball travel distance, which in this case is fairly wide in the service box to the far outside corner of the opposite box. I used 62 feet. There's a bunch of online calculators you can use that will then translate those two data points into a good estimate. Here's one I like. http://donthireddy.us/tennis/speed.html , there's some mobile apps for your phone to do it as well. There's a few threads on here as well where people discuss the calculations and accuracy.

 

[atp2015]

You're free to check my speed calculation from the video. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I verified the method by checking some pro hits with displayed radar and it comes out very close. You take the frame count from ball impact on the racket head and then ball bounce. In this case I'm using 14.75 out of 30 frames because contact happened mid frame. You estimate the ball travel distance, which in this case is fairly wide in the service box to the far outside corner of the opposite box. I used 62 feet. There's a bunch of online calculators you can use that will then translate those two data points into a good estimate. Here's one I like. http://donthireddy.us/tennis/speed.html , there's some mobile apps for your phone to do it as well. There's a few threads on here as well where people discuss the calculations and accuracy.

I apologize for making fun, but with all seriousness, you have a lot of room for racket drop, the swing speed can go up drastically, and the leg drive can be added - I'm sure you can get to 100+ once you incorporate key ingredients to your serve.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Don't think there's any "could be" about. Could be a pancake slap (PS) I guess..

My definition of Waiter's Tray is evolving. If his racket faces the sky but he should be using significant ISR to drive the racket forward (as Bigservesofthands, Raul_SJ and others do) is that also a Waiter's Tray?

I don't want to spend too much time studying lower performance techniques that are poorly defined and then arguing about whether they match an undefined serving technique called Waiter's Tray. The racket face clearly means that the OP's serve is not a high level serving technique, whatever we call it. Is WT defined as racket face to sky and no use of ISR - as I had thought until now? Does WT include also racket face to the sky and significant use of ISR? Seeing racket positions in videos is easy but the less obvious biomechanics is important...... I think people should view high speed videos and see what is there. Trying to simplify complex motions to words like 'Waiter's Tray' is typical of the poor way we communicate in tennis today.

On the other hand, I'm recently recognizing that with racket face to sky ISR may be moving the racket head forward on more serve techniques than I had thought. (Bigservesofthands, Raul_SJ and others). The camera angles matter. The variety that is out there is a continuum.

Waiter Tray?

Waiter's Tray like with ISR?

On this issue, the Pat Dougherty video "Hammer that Serve" might be very helpful for describing the WT technique. He does not use the words 'Waiter's Tray' but the 'hammer' technique is WT. He describes how to improve a Waiter's Tray serve.

WT is undefined. There are a few useful descriptions such as the HiTech webpage. The Dougherty video and HiTech Tennis information is the best I know of for what a WT is.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Yeah but when people talk about pancake serving, you usually don't start in continental. The racket is edge on in my hand and I appear to be pronating immediately as my swing begins.

I was using Continental + pronation + ISR and topping out at ~85mph, due to opening up the racket too soon. After practicing with more "edge on" to contact the serve,it sometimes breaks 90mph.

Since you have only been playing for 18 months, you should probably practice the high level "edge on" to contact before your current non-optimal technique becomes too ingrained and hard to break.

 

[RogueFLIP]

Stretching the back itself is not enough. Your focus should be on stretching your hamstrings and hip flexors. Almost all lower back pain can be resolved from these two stretches. You don't need a yoga mat for that.

While I'm not disagreeing with working on hip flexors/hamstrings; except from what the OP is describing (see quote below) that doesn't describe his hamstrings or his hip flexors.

I have a reoccuring issue with the muscle that goes from my hip, up my lower spine to my bottom rib. When you lean left to generating that angle, you're maximally stretching that muscle which ends up hurting me a lot afterwards. I have a feeling I've developed my service motion around protecting my lowerback/right hip/SI joint region.

So OP I'm wondering what stretches you do...

 

[Limpinhitter]

While I'm not disagreeing with working on hip flexors/hamstrings; except from what the OP is describing (see quote below) that doesn't describe his hamstrings or his hip flexors.



So OP I'm wondering what stretches you do...

Stretching hamstrings and hip flexors is the first line therapy for lower back pain.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I don't understand footwork very well. I have seen high level serves where the rear foot seems to be lightly used. ?

If the foot is touching the ground the leg can apply ground forces at the hip joints. The two hip joints are on the pelvis. The pelvis supports the spine. The legs can apply ground forces that can rotate the pelvis and/or make either hip or both hips rise. The knees are bent before they are going to to be used to apply ground forces at the hip joints to raise or tilt the pelvis.

http://www.houstonmethodist.org/ort...hurt/lower-back/sacroiliac-joint-dysfunction/

Your foot work is different, mostly you don't bend the knees and jump. I have not compared your footwork to high level footwork but suggest that you do. Compare footwork variety from high level serves from similar camera angles.

Some frames with your footwork.

Frame #1 & #2. Frame #1. The rear leg is straight. Frame #2. The rear leg is near leaving the ground. The knee has bent since Frame #1, not straightened, so the right leg probably had no chance to apply ground force to the right hip. ? The hips have started to turn.

Frame #3 & #4. Frame #3. The rear foot is off the ground and the rear leg cannot apply ground forces to turn the pelvis. By bending rapidly when off the ground the leg can supply forces at the hip. Frame #4. Just before impact. The hips and body have turned more.

This looks like an unusual motion and the racket is face up and not edge on to the ball. How is the pelvis and body mass accelerated to turn? Does that stress your back?

A sports medicine Dr is probably best to handle the issue of your injury and how you should serve.

 

[Demented]

I worked on the grip/edge issue today, it's mostly just sloppy hand positioning on the racket and a tendency to begin my forearm transition from supinated to neutral/pronated immediately as I leave my backswing. That's probably the easiest part of my serve to correct. I've been to a PT/Sports Chiro and an ortho in the last 2 years. Not much they can do about the ligaments in my hip. They're too lax on the right side which can lead to it getting stuck out of position on forceful rotation. Once it's stuck, my lower back muscles start getting really irritated because they're over extended. It's 10X better now that I've been playing sports for 2 years than it was prior.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Serve angles

Bottom to top:
1) overall hand path
2) overall racket path for a slice serve
3) supination position
4) pronation motion
5) elbow flexion/extension angle - changes very rapidly
6) Red Arrow Lower - Racket 'edge on' to ball - an instant
7) ISR rotates arm and racket face to left
8) Red Arrow - impact angle 'face on' to ball
9) racket tilt to left at impact (that racket path is why the hand is never under the racket at impact, but camera viewing angles can affect what you see)
10) ball trajectory and dropping toss

Toly composite picture from 240 fps video.

XXXYYZ

 

[RogueFLIP]

I worked on the grip/edge issue today, it's mostly just sloppy hand positioning on the racket and a tendency to begin my forearm transition from supinated to neutral/pronated immediately as I leave my backswing. That's probably the easiest part of my serve to correct. I've been to a PT/Sports Chiro and an ortho in the last 2 years. Not much they can do about the ligaments in my hip. They're too lax on the right side which can lead to it getting stuck out of position on forceful rotation. Once it's stuck, my lower back muscles start getting really irritated because they're over extended. It's 10X better now that I've been playing sports for 2 years than it was prior.

It's highly likely that you have unresolved soft tissue restrictions and some misalignements of your spine and pelvic region from your descriptions of your back. Furthermore these restrictions of the tissue which are a major factor in causing misalignments can easily produce symptoms of laxity which causes the compensation of the soft tissue and muscles surrounding the area to tighten/spasm which can lead to things "getting really Irritated".

Chronic issues need to be addressed by reducing these restrictions of the soft tissue and attempting to realign the system into a more neutral posture. What people don't understand is that esp with chronic conditions, these restrictions and misalignment don't need to be near symptomatic areas.

 

[maxxy777]

I have 2 serves in this clip, one is ~90 mph and the second is ~100 mph. I need a list of small things to do to fix my motion.I realize I don't use my legs very well, and my rotation could be better. I'm generating the vast majority of my power through shoulder and pronation. I've only been playing tennis for 18 months really and contemplating going up to 3.5 for next season, I'd really like to be able to add more consistency to my motion even if it slows me down.

Also, I do that weird left calf raise during my trophy stance, I don't know how to correct it. I've tried to forceably remove it from my motion and it messes up my rhythm. I think may I lift my heel to prevent my lower back from hurting when I lean back. Where should I start? Stance, leg push off, rotation, backbend, a coach?

Your contact point is good and your serve will improve on its own if you keep that up.
Dont change it at all mate you will start thinking more and mess up contact with the ball and then no technic can help you any more.

 

[Demented]

It's highly likely that you have unresolved soft tissue restrictions and some misalignements of your spine and pelvic region from your descriptions of your back. Furthermore these restrictions of the tissue which are a major factor in causing misalignments can easily produce symptoms of laxity which causes the compensation of the soft tissue and muscles surrounding the area to tighten/spasm which can lead to things "getting really Irritated".

Chronic issues need to be addressed by reducing these restrictions of the soft tissue and attempting to realign the system into a more neutral posture. What people don't understand is that esp with chronic conditions, these restrictions and misalignment don't need to be near symptomatic areas.

This isn't the only part of my body with ligament laxity. I went to a wrist/hand surgeon last year because I thought I had possibly torn my TFCC. I had been using a wrist widget for like a full year and it never stopped. He grabbed my bad wrist and dislocated it with his thumbs like it was no big deal. Told me my wrist hurts because the ligaments aren't holding it in place. He did the same thing to my good wrist and then diagnosed me with generalized ligament laxity. I did some internet sluething and decided after reading some research articles that my diet needed more glycine(precursor to collagen/ligaments etc). I've been supplementing that daily for 6 months and I got a heavier racket and my wirst issues disappeared. My back has been much better since but I still have some major work to do on flexibility of my muscles and getting it all back in shape.