Serve and Volley at higher levels? Tips needed!

[Fuji]

Hello everyone!

Since coming off a back injury, grinding away on court after my serve has not been ideal. I've longed for the idea of going back to a more attacking oriented serve and volley style of tennis to have as a change up. So here I am looking for advice.

Right now I'm playing Men's 5.0 singles, and getting my butt handed to me since I've had some problems dealing with holding my serve which is completely new territory. I have a rather big first serve (110MPH+/-) but my 2nd serve is sorely lacking due to the back injury. I am uncomfortable hitting heavy kickers due to the strain it places on the lower back. So right now I'm hitting a lot more slice and top/slice second serves. When I used to serve and volley more, the bread and butter was a heavy kicker to gain time to get to the net, but now with more reliance on slice and flat change ups, I'm having a lot harder time figuring out what to do.

Any advice would be extremely helpful! I'd love to be able to work my way into the net more off my serve. If anyone has any videos or advice I would really appreciate it.

-Fuji

 

[torpantennis]

Maybe a slice serve into the body would be a good idea, to force weaker returns?

 

[Fuji]

Maybe a slice serve into the body would be a good idea, to force weaker returns?

That could definitely work. Right now I've only really used a slice outwide on deuce, and T on ad. I go flat body a lot of the time if I'm not going T.

-Fuji

 

[dominikk1985]

at the higher levels S&V only works if you have a dominant serve. karlovic plays S&V and he is still ranked in the top50 in the world at age 35.

however he has a huge serve, you don't need to hit aces like him but you need to put the opponent at the defensive. if a 5.0+ opponent can take big cuts at your serve no kind of volleys will save you.

so if you have a serve that has him scramble or block the ball back S&V is a great option but if your serve allows him to take offensive or even just neutral returns you will have a very hard time unless you volley like edberg.

 

[ARKustom93]

Hello everyone!

Since coming off a back injury, grinding away on court after my serve has not been ideal. I've longed for the idea of going back to a more attacking oriented serve and volley style of tennis to have as a change up. So here I am looking for advice.

Right now I'm playing Men's 5.0 singles, and getting my butt handed to me since I've had some problems dealing with holding my serve which is completely new territory. I have a rather big first serve (110MPH+/-) but my 2nd serve is sorely lacking due to the back injury. I am uncomfortable hitting heavy kickers due to the strain it places on the lower back. So right now I'm hitting a lot more slice and top/slice second serves. When I used to serve and volley more, the bread and butter was a heavy kicker to gain time to get to the net, but now with more reliance on slice and flat change ups, I'm having a lot harder time figuring out what to do.

Any advice would be extremely helpful! I'd love to be able to work my way into the net more off my serve. If anyone has any videos or advice I would really appreciate it.

-Fuji

What grip are you using for first/second serve? If you're on Continental for both, consider using a moderate Eastern to hit that kicker on your 2nd.

 

[Fuji]

at the higher levels S&V only works if you have a dominant serve. karlovic plays S&V and he is still ranked in the top50 in the world at age 35.

however he has a huge serve, you don't need to hit aces like him but you need to put the opponent at the defensive. if a 5.0+ opponent can take big cuts at your serve no kind of volleys will save you.

so if you have a serve that has him scramble or block the ball back S&V is a great option but if your serve allows him to take offensive or even just neutral returns you will have a very hard time unless you volley like edberg.

Haha this is what I feared. My first serve is dominant enough but the percentage just isn't high enough. (Right around that 60% mark.) I feel as though S&V might only work off my first serve then. My second just isn't strong enough now.

-Fuji

 

[SpinToWin]

You need to serve smart for S&V and that is not easy to do. You need to mix it up so that you do not become predictable and you need to be able to read your opponent's (relative) weaknesses and play into them. Furthermore, you need to have a good feel for the dimensions of the court so that you know where you have to rush to (in order to close the angles) depending on the placement of your serve. I recommend watching some Edberg matches, as he did not have the best serve, but he really backed it up well. One thing he did especially well was to throw the ball toss deep into the court, which let him have one of the fastest transitions from the baseline to the net. He almost always hit the first volley in the service box. Hope my chaotic recommendations help haha

 

[Fuji]

What grip are you using for first/second serve? If you're on Continental for both, consider using a moderate Eastern to hit that kicker on your 2nd.

I'm full 2-2 continental on both. I've been messing about with a 2-1 continental for second serves which has had mixed results so far, but I'm going to keep trying it. Good idea though, I feel I might gain a bit of easy action with a slight grip modification. I know 'disguise' is discussed here, but with my back still sensitive I'll take some extra spin if I can get it.

-Fuji

 

[Fuji]

You need to serve smart for S&V and that is not easy to do. You need to mix it up so that you do not become predictable and you need to be able to read your opponent's (relative) weaknesses and play into them. Furthermore, you need to have a good feel for the dimensions of the court so that you know where you have to rush to (in order to close the angles) depending on the placement of your serve. I recommend watching some Edberg matches, as he did not have the best serve, but he really backed it up well. One thing he did especially well was to throw the ball toss deep into the court, which let him have one of the fastest transitions from the baseline to the net. He almost always hit the first volley in the service box. Hope my chaotic recommendations help haha

My transitions suck right now! That's a really good idea on watching edberg. I get killed off that first step / volley and I need a way to work on it. Any idea on how to practice that first volley?

This is true on the serve. However I find the further out in front I hit, the flatter my serve gets. Not too sure how I can still get spin tossing far out front.

-Fuji

 

[ARKustom93]

I'm full 2-2 continental on both. I've been messing about with a 2-1 continental for second serves which has had mixed results so far, but I'm going to keep trying it. Good idea though, I feel I might gain a bit of easy action with a slight grip modification. I know 'disguise' is discussed here, but with my back still sensitive I'll take some extra spin if I can get it.

-Fuji

The 'disguise' factor is overrated; bottom line, being able to execute that shot well(without killing your back) will still put you in a favorable position for your purposes. Even at pro level(with some players), just looking at the setup, toss and so on, you can tell what's coming, but they hit it so well that shot anticipation ultimately turns into a minor factor.

 

[Deleted member 120290]

I can't imagine being successful at 5.0 level consistently with S&V these days with powerful rackets, slower courts and esp. poly strings...If you play on slippery public courts that never get cleaned, then maybe...

 

[Topspin Shot]

I can't serve and volley in singles very well, so I'm probably not the guy to help here. On the other hand, if you want any tips on baseline tactics, then I can help more.

 

[SpinToWin]

My transitions suck right now! That's a really good idea on watching edberg. I get killed off that first step / volley and I need a way to work on it. Any idea on how to practice that first volley?

This is true on the serve. However I find the further out in front I hit, the flatter my serve gets. Not too sure how I can still get spin tossing far out front.

-Fuji

For the first volley you should get yourself in a rhythm. Many guys just rush the net and hit the ball somehow while it comes at them. You should have a clear goal in your mind when going for the net. Where does your serve go, where do you go as a result and where do you want to be when you hit the first volley should be questions you can answer beforehand. Ideally, you'll want to define a location on the court where you want to do the split step, rather than reacting, as you do not have much time. If you look at Edberg, he will almost always be doing his split steps at the same height, maybe 1m before the service line. That way you have to juggle much less aspects at the same time in your mind and you can concentrate on the volley and your movement to it. Keep the volley itself simple with a short punching motion in front of the body.

There is only one way to practice this really. Get a partner (maybe somebody who wants to practice his return) and practice serve and volleying, keeping these aspects in mind. You should be able to find a rhythm pretty quickly, at least that's the case for me when I just serve and volley for a while.

 

[Fuji]

I can't serve and volley in singles very well, so I'm probably not the guy to help here. On the other hand, if you want any tips on baseline tactics, then I can help more.

Haha! I'd appreciate some help! Right now my mobility sucks! I put on some pounds and my movement just isn't very strong. I'm having a hard time moving to wide forehands that stretch me out fully. Just not comfortable really stretching out and stabbing at anything too wide.

A big issue is that on my second serve I'm starting on defense off the first ball a lot of the time. Not winners, but I'm not in the court at all. Usually stuck a couple feet behind the baseline on my heels.

-Fuji

 

[SpinToWin]

Haha! I'd appreciate some help! Right now my mobility sucks! I put on some pounds and my movement just isn't very strong. I'm having a hard time moving to wide forehands that stretch me out fully. Just not comfortable really stretching out and stabbing at anything too wide.

A big issue is that on my second serve I'm starting on defense off the first ball a lot of the time. Not winners, but I'm not in the court at all. Usually stuck a couple feet behind the baseline on my heels.

-Fuji

Definitely mix your second serve up, especially with some serves into the body (most underestimated serve for sure). The serve into the body is hard to return well and you risk being caught off guard if you move too early. Just the possibility of that serve will keep your opponents off balance and guessing; it's when they find a rhythm and can set up a good shot off the return that you get into big trouble.

Edit: Also, you should consider taking a bit off your first serve and improving your percentage and placement instead. Both are more important for a serve and volleyer.

 

[Lukhas]

Well from what I've heard Rafter saying, he likes to make his opponent "mishit" on the return instead of pulling him wide to open angles too much. Of course pulling them wide, while opening angles, results in tougher shots for the opponent to execute. So of course his bread and butter was the kick high in the strike zone, no matter which side or direction. Since you are recovering, I wouldn't focus too much on variety of serves because you simply can't kick, so the outwide zone from AD side and/or kick to the T Deuce side are going to be difficult to pull. Just "go to the well" and pick on your opponent's weakness until he'd proven to be able to pass you enough time to revise your options. It doesn't mean hit the same serve every single point, but as long as it works don't hesitate. I wouldn't focus on hitting the slice outwide too much; I'd keep it in the back pocket though. You need a quite far right toss to really cut the serve in, or to be able to serve hard enough it doesn't matter. And since you can't hit too many kicks, that's what your opponent is going to expect with your flat serve and your topslice second serve.

I'm not a S&V player at all. I still advise to try the slice to the body towards the hip their FH side is on. So right hip for righties, left hip for lefties. The thinking is that it's much tougher to play a FH off a ball on your body than it is to play a BH or at least put the racquet in front of your body from the BH side. Furthermore, most player's favourite stroke is the FH. So since the slice isn't a really fast serve, they often will tend to try to hit a FH rather than a BH; and this, even if it means they'll have to travel a greater distance to get enough "body space" to hit a FH rather than a BH. I probably would hit a bit more on the left, to the body or slightly towards the left hip for righties since the slice will break out to their FH side "naturally".

 

[onehandbh]

Since you have a decent first serve I think occasionally using your second serve as a first serve might work.
deuce side: try hitting wide slices and slices into the body

ad side: slice down the middle. should make it hard for the returner to pass uou if you hit it well.

changing up the speed of your first serve by throwing in occasional second serves should also increase your first serve percentage.

Also, consider hitting topspin swinging volleys from the service line area

 

[torpantennis]

Definitely mix your second serve up, especially with some serves into the body (most underestimated serve for sure). The serve into the body is hard to return well and you risk being caught off guard if you move too early. Just the possibility of that serve will keep your opponents off balance and guessing; it's when they find a rhythm and can set up a good shot off the return that you get into big trouble.

Definitely! Body slice serve is my go-to serve, on both first and second serves. And it gives so many weak balls and mishits, I think it's actually one of my best strokes. :lol: Just too bad that I don't have the level to back up the serve, with aggressive first stroke after the serve.

Maybe I should try S/V!

 

[SpinToWin]

Definitely! Body slice serve is my go-to serve, on both first and second serves. And it gives so many weak balls and mishits, I think it's actually one of my best strokes. :lol: Just too bad that I don't have the level to back up the serve, with aggressive first stroke after the serve.

Maybe I should try S/V!

Give it a try, it's not as hard as some people make it out to be IMO. You just can't let yourself be discouraged if your opponent plays a few good passes, that's where most people give up.

 

[torpantennis]

Give it a try, it's not as hard as some people make it out to be IMO. You just can't let yourself be discouraged if your opponent plays a few good passes, that's where most people give up.

The problem just is that I have no "feel" for the tactics of S/V. That's because you see no S/V in the pro game nowadays. Maybe I should just watch some Edberg matches.

I should also search for some youtube clips on S/V. Any good places where to start?

 

[chunlimeyers]

The one thing you have to understand, is that kick serve you used to hit, it wasn't only the spin that allowed you to get to the net, but what i found is, if you don't hit enough spin, then the returner can hit the shots to your feet. If you hit enough heavy spin, the returner can't counteract that spin, and the ball FLOATS and stays HIGH, giving one a much easier waist high/chest high volley.

And if your really playing at a 5.0 level, most to all, have not only good, but exceptional returns to be at that level. I played slugs subbing for what i will call 3.75's, and i hit a jumping topspin serve that destroyed them at 3 hrs of doubles. But then next day hit with my buddy, an ex. 5.5 D1 player, and the ball came back, to my feet in no mans land almost as fast as I got my serve off my racket!! (now to be fair, i played the night before on clay(har tru) under a bubble, and next day outdoors in the cold on a medium speed hard court!(so, a CLEAR difference in courts and bounce height and spin off those surfaces!) To bring to mind another thing, the surface matters alot to get it to bounce high out of the strike zone(which it CLEARLY wasn't doing that next day!)

But next day i scrapped that serve and worked on something even BIGGER(flatter, more power, less spin)!haha I realize I should go back to that serve as it works against most 4.5's, and nearly every 4.0 I am going to encounter! As I am reading and learning from this thread as it is also something I do want to get back to if I can.

I can hit a good amount of spin without bending my back too far back, but if you look at Rafter, a real kick serve, he still has plenty of arched back in his serve.

And, last thing, I totally believe it is the serve that sets up everything, as others have mentioned, without it, theirs no point.

 

[Easy Rider]

1. fitness
you have to be very athletic in order to maintain same level of explosive outbursts of energy throughout the match. Jab step is a must and very fast first step

2. mental
S&V is the most agresive way to put the pressure on your opponent and you have to be bold quick thinker. No regrets when you miss easy volley or get passed but show up on the net again

3. tactical
you have to see your opponents preferences when returning, so you`ll have clue what to expect. On big points dont go for ace outwide from ad side if thats not your shot, go with your strength. Mix it up with serve placement (skick variations are out cuz of your condition). Always close the net, never mind the lob

4. Model to follow
You cant hit kickers, so Edberg and Rafter are not model to follow cuz the heavily used kick variations. You gonna hit faster serves, so I would suggest Sampras or Krajicek (even better). Both of them did split step on no mans land (but little closer to service line)(not like Edberg and Rafter just behind service line). Cuz of thta you have to improve half volleys and punch volleys

One question : how tall are you?


I S&Ved most of my time and this is like from top of my mind, but I think enough so you can expand it ... feel free to ask

 

[fuzz nation]

Happy Holidays Fuji!!

As far as my take on using S&V, it was just about mandatory when I got to play on grass courts as a kid, but when I had to play a lot more on hard courts later on, I had to learn to be a little more picky about when to charge off my serve.

I don't like to grind away all day from the backcourt either. My tennis DNA is more geared toward moving forward, but too many solid players have nasty returns these days. Even though wisdom dictates that we keep moving in, even if we initially get passed using S&V, there's a fine line between wearing down an opponent's resolve and merely sticking with a losing strategy.

One tip for employing S&V is to be unpredictable with our serves, but I think it's also smart - at least for me - to be unpredictable with my use of S&V. If I'm always moving in behind my serve, I might be in trouble when an opponent simply blocks a return down on my feet. If I stay back though, that off-speed return is easy for me to jump on and let me control the action from there. Varying my attack hopefully leaves a returner a little more off-balance.

My typical plan of attack has evolved into more all-court play with some S&V sprinkled in for good measure. When I don't follow my serve to the net right away, I'll stay alert for a short ball and approach behind that. Same with my return, but I'll chip-and-charge less frequently than S&V. My strokes will also vary between topspin and slice shots because I don't like to give opponents a lot of steady tempo. I suppose I this style according to the situation and what an opponent is doing with my shots.

S&V is a quick style of play that usually makes for more short points, but I also think that it can be grueling when it's done over and over again. Lots of potential hammering on the legs when split-stepping and bursting toward the ball. It's also not rare to be lunging at balls when making those first volleys and half-volleys. When I can wait for a short ball that gives me an easier transition forward, that can sometimes make for a less abusive alternate route to the net.

Hang in there, mister. Every day we're catching an extra minute or two of sunlight from here on out til late June!

 

[PhrygianDominant]

I am not a great player, but I have had more s&v success on first serves near the backhand hip or at the body. I just expect a flat return back and try to keep them from getting a good angle. Then I can keep the ball in front of me and place the first volley well.

Also, they can't be getting a rhythm. I have to try to hit the serves around the box a little, just so they don't get to comfortable.

 

[tennisdad65]

I am a 4.5 s&v with conti for everything. I play my share of 5.0's (and even 4.0's and 5.5's).

1) In general, the worse your serve is, the better your volleys become.

2) You will lose a lot initially. I started s&v about 6 years back and lost ~75% of my matches for ~4 yrs to my group of 4.5's .. Now I beat the same guys about 75%.

3) I s&v on 1st serve about 80-90% of the time. On 2nd serve, it varies on the day but typically I s&v at least 50% and often as high as 80-90%.

4) I use a topspin or topspin-slice serve. I may hit a flat serve once a month . I may hit a twist 3-4 times a match.

5) It is often the pressure that gets to the opponent. I think I win about 20-30% of the points at the net due to opponent missed passing returns or passing shots.. You do not have to hit first volley winners even against 5.0s.

6) Warm up very well and you will often win the first set. Not many guys play s&v and opponents take half a set to get used to it.

 

[TennisLogic]

Hello everyone!

Since coming off a back injury, grinding away on court after my serve has not been ideal. I've longed for the idea of going back to a more attacking oriented serve and volley style of tennis to have as a change up. So here I am looking for advice.

Right now I'm playing Men's 5.0 singles, and getting my butt handed to me since I've had some problems dealing with holding my serve which is completely new territory. I have a rather big first serve (110MPH+/-) but my 2nd serve is sorely lacking due to the back injury. I am uncomfortable hitting heavy kickers due to the strain it places on the lower back. So right now I'm hitting a lot more slice and top/slice second serves. When I used to serve and volley more, the bread and butter was a heavy kicker to gain time to get to the net, but now with more reliance on slice and flat change ups, I'm having a lot harder time figuring out what to do.

Any advice would be extremely helpful! I'd love to be able to work my way into the net more off my serve. If anyone has any videos or advice I would really appreciate it.

-Fuji

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyhFo3hvGPI

Placement and variety are just as important as action for a serve and volleyer. No need to use a lot of lower back.

 

[TennisLogic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oaZ-49eebo

 

[LeeD]

Really pay attention to Spin2Win and TDad.
You don't need a big second serve to get to net position, but you need to place it to the corners and into the body, move forwards decisively, and hit lots of low to half volleys deep with good penetration, varied with some drop volleys.
Most S/V guys don't mind losing a few games, or the first set, to set up their strategy of constant grinding leading to opponent's more tentative play. You give up a few, to get more in the long run.
Against good movers, hit into the body.
Against good hitters, make them move a step.
Relish low and half volleys, because they are the majority of your first volleys.

 

[anubis]

Hello everyone!

Since coming off a back injury, grinding away on court after my serve has not been ideal. I've longed for the idea of going back to a more attacking oriented serve and volley style of tennis to have as a change up. So here I am looking for advice.

Right now I'm playing Men's 5.0 singles, and getting my butt handed to me since I've had some problems dealing with holding my serve which is completely new territory. I have a rather big first serve (110MPH+/-) but my 2nd serve is sorely lacking due to the back injury. I am uncomfortable hitting heavy kickers due to the strain it places on the lower back. So right now I'm hitting a lot more slice and top/slice second serves. When I used to serve and volley more, the bread and butter was a heavy kicker to gain time to get to the net, but now with more reliance on slice and flat change ups, I'm having a lot harder time figuring out what to do.

Any advice would be extremely helpful! I'd love to be able to work my way into the net more off my serve. If anyone has any videos or advice I would really appreciate it.

-Fuji

S&V is all about planning your points ahead of time. I feel like you should have to be able to predict where the opponent's return will be. If you don't know where that is, I don't think you'll be very successful with a S&V style of play.

And, if your opponent almost never gives you a weak reply to your 1st serve, then you also shouldn't S&V on that point. If they're going to murder the ball, then that will keep you on the baseline.

Also, it's better (I think anyway) to S&V on important points, such as 30-30, 40-30, or 30-40. Save your firepower for when you need that extra edge to close out the game.

An example of this would be: you're at 30-30 and its your serve. You think to yourself while toweling off between points about your next point. You could hit a kicker nice and wide for your 1st serve. You think that your opponent will give you a weak reply to somewhere in the middle of your right service box. Therefore, assuming you serve the way you're planning to, you'll immediately run to the center of the court, anticipating the reply. When he gives you that short reply, you hit a CC approach shot behind him and follow it up to the net. If he gets it back, it will be an easy volley winner.

 

[Shroud]

Hey Fuji,

Lots of good tips here.

My 2 cents is to ease into SV. Its a different mindset. Maybe just do it when you are up say 30-0 etc and keep it up till you win or are even. Maybe just do it at 40-0.

It will be like that student who flips because the new technique hits the ball in the net, but as a coach, you like the stroke because its a better stroke even if the result was in the net. Keep up coming in and initially don't really care about the results.

Mentally serve and volley is a bit different. To a point you just need to keep coming and realize you WILL get passed. Said another way Nadal beat fed in that classic wimbledon match by a mere 5 points....295-290 IIRC. As a Serve and Volleyer I thought, "damn, I can get passed 290 times and still win the match!"

And I make the mistake alot of people do I think. Hit the serve and then RUN to the service line. Watch Sampras and Becker, they usually serve, take a few steps and do a kind of check step where they keep moving instead of running forward. If you think about it, a slight check step actually gives you more time to react...

 

[Fuji]

1. fitness
you have to be very athletic in order to maintain same level of explosive outbursts of energy throughout the match. Jab step is a must and very fast first step

2. mental
S&V is the most agresive way to put the pressure on your opponent and you have to be bold quick thinker. No regrets when you miss easy volley or get passed but show up on the net again

3. tactical
you have to see your opponents preferences when returning, so you`ll have clue what to expect. On big points dont go for ace outwide from ad side if thats not your shot, go with your strength. Mix it up with serve placement (skick variations are out cuz of your condition). Always close the net, never mind the lob

4. Model to follow
You cant hit kickers, so Edberg and Rafter are not model to follow cuz the heavily used kick variations. You gonna hit faster serves, so I would suggest Sampras or Krajicek (even better). Both of them did split step on no mans land (but little closer to service line)(not like Edberg and Rafter just behind service line). Cuz of thta you have to improve half volleys and punch volleys

One question : how tall are you?


I S&Ved most of my time and this is like from top of my mind, but I think enough so you can expand it ... feel free to ask

Great post! Thanks a lot. I really appreciate all the help so far guys!

I'm 5'10.5 / 5'11 barefoot, so around six ish in shoes.

-Fuji

 

[GregSV]

. I recommend watching some Edberg matches, as he did not have the best serve, but he really backed it up well. One thing he did especially well was to throw the ball toss deep into the court, which let him have one of the fastest transitions from the baseline to the net. He almost always hit the first volley in the service box. Hope my chaotic recommendations help haha

Most of Edbergs first volleys actually were deep and close to the baseline, often hit in the direction of his opponent to keep him in front of him. Second volleys were angled put aways or also deep. I know cause I watched some of his matches lately

 

[junior74]

Try to hit a short, sliced 1st serve on the deuce side at least once a game. No speed, just angle and spin. It's an ace one time out of three. The other two times, the court is wide open.

 

[Shroud]

Most of Edbergs first volleys actually were deep and close to the baseline, often hit in the direction of his opponent to keep him in front of him. Second volleys were angled put aways or also deep. I know cause I watched some of his matches lately

Think spin was actually talking about where Edberg WAS when he hit the volley, and not where he hit it

His serve and serve motion let him get to the service box to hit hit his 1st volley.

 

[GregSV]

Think spin was actually talking about where Edberg WAS when he hit the volley, and not where he hit it

His serve and serve motion let him get to the service box to hit hit his 1st volley.

Ah, of course, silly me...

Players like Sampras and Krajicek didn't get so deep on a consistent basis because of their serves.

 

[Shroud]

Ah, of course, silly me...

Players like Sampras and Krajicek didn't get so deep on a consistent basis because of their serves.

Yeah. Its a different technique. Some one once defined the subsets of serve and volley and it came down to who had big serves and who didnt. The ones like Edberg and Rafter usually got in closer to the net than the ones like Sampras and Becker.

Good thing is that I really dont fall in to either camp. I have the serve of the Edberg/ Rafter school and get as close as the Sampras/Krajicek school....

 

[torpantennis]

Maybe the "best" serve for S/V is a "weak" slice serve into the body? The opponent sees an "easy ball", but forgets to move his feet so you get a weak ball. And you also have enough time to get closer to the net because the serve is slower. That's one sneaky tactic, I have to try it!

 

[torpantennis]

Give it a try, it's not as hard as some people make it out to be IMO. You just can't let yourself be discouraged if your opponent plays a few good passes, that's where most people give up.

Maybe the "best" serve for S/V is a "weak" slice serve into the body? The opponent sees an "easy ball", but forgets to move his feet so you get a weak ball. And you also have enough time to get closer to the net because the serve is slower. That's one sneaky tactic, I have to try it!

I tried S/V, for the first time ever, in a practice set today. The slice serve into the body worked very well, I almost always got a weak first ball with it. The flat bomb down the T did not work at all. The opponent redirected my pace down the line to pass me multiple times. My kicker is very weak, so I did not even try it on S/V. The wide slice serve could work, but I did not try it today.

I think I won more than half of the S/V points, and got into a secure lead with it. But then I got a bit low in energy, lost a couple of S/V points, and then got rid of it. This actually allowed the opponent to get back into the match, so at least today S/V gave me better results than the baseline game. If my volleys were on par with the rest of my game, I think S/V could work very well! The slice serve into the body has always been my go-to serve and S/V seems like a good pattern to take advantage of it. I think I'll start many practice matches with S/V in the future to develop S/V further, but my fitness at the moment does not allow S/V with good concentration and execution throughout a match.

The first thing where I should concentrate on S/V is the footwork into the first volley. I think I rushed into the net too much, and did not split step properly. I should now take some video to see what other issues my S/V has. It'll be an interesting road ahead!

 

[torpantennis]

Nice example of what reading TW can do! This thread inspired me to try S&V, and now I've transformed into S&V on all 1st serves, and even 1/3 of 2nd serves! S&V works very well indoors, where I play almost 8 months a year. I've now successfully used it in multiple practice matches.

And believe it or not, I've never ever used S&V before. It's amazing what a change of mentality can do. I'm now serving AND volleying better than ever. Thanks OP.

 

[Nostradamus]

drop volley is the key. just ask JP McEnroe.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

I have been serving and volleying quite a bit this hall season. It really depends on what kind of returning I can expect. The return is the weakest part of almost all my opponents' games, so I can get away with s&v in the hall and sometimes even on clay. That being despite having a service that is not that fast, but very accurate.

 

[DanFuller]

Great post! Thanks a lot. I really appreciate all the help so far guys!

I'm 5'10.5 / 5'11 barefoot, so around six ish in shoes.

-Fuji

Does Height help here(other than the lob issue)

 

[Fuji]

Nice example of what reading TW can do! This thread inspired me to try S&V, and now I've transformed into S&V on all 1st serves, and even 1/3 of 2nd serves! S&V works very well indoors, where I play almost 8 months a year. I've now successfully used it in multiple practice matches.

And believe it or not, I've never ever used S&V before. It's amazing what a change of mentality can do. I'm now serving AND volleying better than ever. Thanks OP.

No problem Torpan! I know it has fallen out of favor with the big leagues, but down here in the non-pros I still believe it is an ultra viable strategy!

-Fuji

 

[PhrygianDominant]

I think I am going to have to start doing S&V almost exclusively indoors. It simply plays to my strengths more than any other strategy. It even helps me with my poor conditioning, by keeping points short and movement more explosive.

 

[PhrygianDominant]

Does Height help here(other than the lob issue)

Height is a big bonus in S&V, for serve, wingspan, and overheads. I am only average height, (5'11"+) but I have a good kick serve and good hands, so it is working ok.

 

[torpantennis]

No problem Torpan! I know it has fallen out of favor with the big leagues, but down here in the non-pros I still believe it is an ultra viable strategy!

-Fuji

It's just amazing what a change in mentality can do! I have been struggling with development for like 2-3 years, I've played a lot but still the results haven't been that great. I've basically been a baseline grinder, who has always struggled between being too defensive or attacking balls that shouldn't be attacked. Then, I've also struggled between hitting flatter or loopier. No surprise, I've struggled the most against no pace pushers.

Then some 9 months ago I learned BH slice, and some 2-3 months ago transformed into almost all slice on BH. I got better results, my slice was so good with low bounce and great disguise that it gave me a lot of weak balls. But still, I struggled with what to attack and what to not attack, because I was basically baseline grinding with all slice.

Then I got inspired by this thread, and tried S&V for the first time ever. I was almost immediately good in it, my spinny serves gave a lot of weak returns from the opponents. Then some 2-3 weeks ago I transformed into all S&V on first serves and got relatively good results. That all out attacking seemed to trigger something nice within my mind and head. I enjoyed it a lot.

Then for the last week, I backed up a bit, and only used S&V occasionally. But without even thinking about it, that short span of S&V totally switched my mind. Now I'm not afraid of errors, I think my mind realized that in order to WIN, you have to dominate the rallies. Now, in my last three practices I've seriously amazed myself how well I can attack, basically anything short and I've been all over it. Sure, I've made some errors, but also many winners and forced errors from the practice opponents.

THEN, out of nowhere, I was seriously GOATing with my game today! It was amazing what I could do with the ball. My game was really all-court attack, from start to finish. The serve was better than ever, the topspin BH/FH were both hard and spinny. Any short ball and it was game over for my partner. It felt like I was all alone with the ball, I was basically standing on or a bit inside the baseline, staring at the ball and looking for that chance to punish it on each occasion. And if the partner hit a deep ball, hitting on the rise felt like trivial. I was even hitting multiple baseline volley winners from the air! I still cannot believe how well I played today.

Analysing all of it now, I think that the short stint of S&V got all the fears of errors away from my mind. Seriously, today I felt like godly Federer on court! :lol: I was even hitting multiple amazing squash shot winners like him. And if my partner approached the net, I passed him multiple times with some godly BH slices. And even though I was attacking most all even slightly weak balls, I always felt that there was a lot of margins in my shots. It was because I was hitting with so loose form that the amount of topspin gave so much margin. If anybody claims that you cannot hit topspin with 18x20, then I don't believe them anymore!

Again, thanks OP. My game is totally transformed! Your thread turned out to be the GTHROAT, greatest thread of all time, for myself. Hugs hugs OP. :mrgreen: