Sharing a Tip on the Forehand

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by KayFactor, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
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  2. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Not sure I follow

    Not sure I follow.

    So a player swings the racket very hard, at one point the strings hit the ball, impact, shock, the ball is launched and ricochet, then after this what should be maintained and why?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
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  3. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    sounds like hitting thru a few balls idea for more penetration. there are subtle differences between E and SW fh about this however.
     
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  4. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    It just absolutely ensures you're making contact correctly. Besides, it happens really quick.

    And also it helps with the slot position. It allows you to lead with the buttcap much longer, whereas some people don't and end up having their racket spring forward frmo the slot way too early.

    Btw, you probably already do this naturally; it's natural for some people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
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  5. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    It's a good tip and will help people but I think it could be described in a better way.

    When I talk about this I use Yandell's wording 'maintaining the hitting structure'. The 'hitting structure (elbow distance from body, degree of elbow bend, racquet/wrist - angle/position etc) is established at the end of takeback at the first forward movement..

    Then you rotate or pull this 'structure' towards the ball. You maintain that structure throughout the hit.

    For advanced players or those looking to become more advanced you can add the wrist action (extension/flex whatever) and pronation or isr etc (by being loose with applied technique) on top of / in conjunction with / within the boundaries of the hitting structure.

    Some more advanced players will actually increase the distance of the elbow from the body during the swing establishing an inside/out type of swing (nadal/fed/djoko/safin etc) but they still maintain the overall structure.

    Yandell has a good article about this on his site that has some good time sequenced animations for illustration.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
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  6. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    Man... this is a lot easier to understand. I feel lame.
     
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  7. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Yes, I think that makes sense.

    I like a really lose grip and don't try to fight the ricochet, that's why I always have trouble with the "hit through the ball paradigm".

    What are your thoughts on that?
     
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  8. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    nah. no prob. credit goes to yandell.
     
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  9. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    Well if you already have a loose grip, then I'd say you're in the right direction in terms of grip pressure. And also, if you've experimented using the loose grip to get into a slot position, then you probably have some sort of understanding of this concept already.

    Watch this video of Andy Murray: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Ce65Adz4k

    He has one hell of a loose grip. Notice how he starts off his backswing with a pretty straight arm. But when he's beginning to swing forward, he goes into a more bent arm position. He keeps that arm position throughout the whole stroke and even after he makes contact with the ball. And he STILL gets that whippy-loose effect (the slot position). Like Cheetah said, "maintain the hitting structure" and the whippy effect will come naturally with your loose grip. It's like a hinge!

    Here's a pretty good view of ferrer maintaining his arm position throughout the swing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trORNJdr1TI
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
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  10. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Nice, except for the first swing which I think is not good at all, it looks like his swing did not agree with his footwork. :)

    Also, in my opinion, the swing at 0:29 is not complete. This is what I would call an example of hitting through the ball instead of letting the momentum of the racket and the strings do the work. A lose wrist won't work there because there is not enough racket momentum so a player might tighten up and try to muscle the stroke.

    I like his mini jumps, they certainly prevent possible torquing of the knees.

    On Ferrer:

    He is of course a great player but I feel he has a rather muscular approach to things. Just by looking at it I feel like he is taking everything heavy handed. I think he should move the point of impact a little more in front, let the racket do more work. He misses that great 'dancing' style that McEnroe used to have in his golden days.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
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  11. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    Ferrer uses his whole body into his shots in matches whenever he gets the chance. He's constantly dealing with high balls due to his height and so he has to throw his hips into the shot more often than most players on the tour. And the reason why his contact seems late is because of that very reason - throwing his hips into the shot. His arm is very passive most of the time unless he has to deal with balls that stretch him or really fast-paced balls.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2013
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  12. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    IMO, the more you maintain this "structure" or "arm position", the more stiffness you promote. That's basically what you guys advocate.

    Think about this for a moment. We have joints to allow us flexibility and movements, and with flexibility you can afford adjustment. You shouldn't consciously manipulate your swingpath in midflight but there's slight adjustment going on all the time to make good contact possible. That's timing.

    About leverage, that starts with rackethead speed. Again, joints are used for range and movements. Increase range and movement (the opposite of stiffness and maintain any sort of (fix) structure) and you'll have rackethead speed. An obvious example is the wrist movement that you could readily see in Fed, Nadal's FH. It's not fixed. (But many players, including pros, do not like a lot of it or think it's necessary and that's fine. Their leverage is magnified elsewhere, not the wrist). Hope my explanation makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2013
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  13. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    leverage is not related to racquet head speed
     
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  14. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    Ok so I got rid of what I said about the contact point position because that seemed to raise confusion. The goal I was trying to achieve here is that people should maintain their ARM position (Bent or straight) from the forward swing to the end. I'm sure people do this naturally but there are those who need this type of reminder. In no way does it cause more stiffness. It may feel stiffer than what you did before, but if you just try it out for a bit, it will do wonders. Even the bolletierri tennis academy explains this leverage on youtube, with that leverage band they use.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J74XpkGKyuc

    The mistake I made here was that I got you guys to pay attention to your racket's contact position. Just pay attention to your arm position.

    And sorry, next time when I release something I'll try my best to actually have it well done and not constantly fix it. My bad
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2013
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  15. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    KayFactor - just out of interest, what's your background in teaching/coaching?
     
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  16. KayFactor

    KayFactor Rookie

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    I've only been coaching for 2 years but I have been intently studying tennis for 5 years and constantly learning new things as I have only just turned 17. Whenever I'm at home I'm either watching tennis or reading tennis online. If I'm not at home I'll be playing tennis or going to school. But don't misunderstand, I have friends, too. Hahahahah
     
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  17. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I disagree. The arm is not what generates the real pace. That is generated by your torso and proper timing.

    So if you are rotating your torso into the shot and maintaining a solid hitting structure through the ball, you will have that racquet head speed. It really is not a stiff motion at all.

    Nadal is a bad example and so is Fed. These are 2 of the best players in the world and can hit straight arm forehands due to their experience and talent and stay consistent. It's a whole different level. You are basically talking about playing jazz music when everyone in the room is working on 4 chord rock n roll.
     
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  18. hawk eye

    hawk eye Hall of Fame

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    That's where you go wrong. No friends allowed, only hitting partners.
    Other folks just lead you away from your core business. At 17, you must know better :)
     
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