should Fed hire a coach for clay court season?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Tempest344, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. Tempest344

    Tempest344 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    Sydney
    Do you think it would help him at all?

    should he see if a former great clay-courter wanted to coach him and give him inspiration+ tactics to beat Nadal
    eg Vilas (who does not seem to like the fact Rafa beat his clay court record)

    do you think it would help him or not?
     
    #1
  2. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,856
    The best thing he could do is hire Tony Nadal. He is a very good coach. This would be even better than just hiring a good coach because of the negative impact on Rafa. This is no doubt the smartest way Fed could spend his vast fortune in the area of coaching.
     
    #2
  3. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    4,672
    Fed knows he has the tool the beat Nadal. He just needs to believe he can do it. I think he will win the French Open this year.
     
    #3
  4. caulcano

    caulcano Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,637
    IMO, just because Rafa is doing very well (especially on clay), doesn't automatically make Tony Nadal a very good coach.
     
    #4
  5. MEAC_ALLAMERICAN

    MEAC_ALLAMERICAN Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Messages:
    9,040
    I really hope he hires me, because I can do with the vacation. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2007
    #5
  6. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    23,292
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    He should hire Harold Solomon
     
    #6
  7. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,885
    Location:
    Northern NJ, USA
    Higueras

    I thing he should work with Jose Higueras. He is a great tactician on clay and helped several other talents win their first FO titles.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    #7
  8. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    23,292
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Federer had already consulted with Higueras in the past, although never was officially designated as coach
     
    #8
  9. mrDamien

    mrDamien Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    2,352
    Fed should hire a Spanish coach in order for him to understand better on how to win in clay court.
     
    #9
  10. jmsx521

    jmsx521 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,496
    If I can recall the last match at Roland Garros was close. Federer is not miles behind in his ability to beat Nadal. With Federer's ability to play pretty much like the #2 player in the world on clay -- Federer might just turn good enough to win Roland Garros in 2008.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2007
    #10
  11. FedForGOAT

    FedForGOAT Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    921
    no one can beat Nadal on clay playing "spanish tennis". Fed has to play differently, i.e. attack and volley more.
     
    #11
  12. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,885
    Location:
    Northern NJ, USA
    Far cry......


    Consultation is a far cry from working with someone. Fed needs to work through the tactical advise Higueras would give him. Fed has to really mix things up on clay to take anyone out of the clay court retrieving game. Not easy to do as you have to be very patient and consistent on clay.

    Rafa stated that "clay rewards the consistent player not the agressive player". Being agressive is what Feds game is based on, but it has to be balanced with patience, consistency and tactics for him to win the FO (ala Noah).

    He/she may be out there but I cannot think of a better tactical mind than Higueras when it comes to winning on clay.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    #12
  13. mrDamien

    mrDamien Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    2,352
    Volley hardly happening in clay.
     
    #13
  14. FedForGOAT

    FedForGOAT Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    921
    McEnroe got to a final in 84' and even led Lendl 2 sets to love and was 4-2 in the third. how did he do it? yep. he volleyed. do you think he had any chance of outlasting Lendl from the baseline?
     
    #14
  15. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,305
    I think if anybody would have gotten him to volley frequently on clay, it would have been Tony Roche.

    Nobody's figured out a way to beat Nadal on clay.
     
    #15
  16. 10nisDude~

    10nisDude~ Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Messages:
    408
    yeah...idk maybe...but he is too stubborn too...and like John McEnroe said if u want to be a great champion u have to be stubborn...so at least to me he does...but it has to be a high profile person to coach him like...idk but like the previous king of clay...
     
    #16
  17. FedForGOAT

    FedForGOAT Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    921
    I never said it would work, I just said it's better than rallying from the baseline.
     
    #17
  18. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,655
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    The equipment has changed to much for it to be as effective now.
     
    #18
  19. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,305
    But it's presumed that volleying on clay was what Roche was trying to get Federer to do.

    It's not even a question of fitness. Nadal on clay produces angles that not even Federer can manufacture. If Nadal hits a inside-out FH and you're inside the baseline, you almost have no shot at retrieving the ball. If you volley to his BH side and you don't pass him, he hits a very wide, passing BH shots.

    Again, is there a strategy that beats a fresh, healthy Nadal on clay?
     
    #19
  20. FedForGOAT

    FedForGOAT Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    921
    Under Roche Fed fed Nadal a first-set breadstick and lost in a 4th set TB. Fed also lost a 5th set TB in Rome and held a MP. Fed was/is on the right track.
     
    #20
  21. Fries-N-Gravy

    Fries-N-Gravy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    478
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    what would a coach do for him that he couldnt do himself? he seems to be a thoughtful guy. after losing to nalbandian twice and then gonzalez he started playing much more aggressively. he's shown he can take sets off of nadal at RG and even beat him on clay. at this point it's up to him to beat nadal in paris, and no coach will make it easier for him. its more physical and execution than anything.

    i think by now he knows he cant just play ball machine with nadal on clay, he needs to play very aggressively to beat him. i was very disappointed every match federer was just content to push the ball around and wait for his opponent to lose.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2007
    #21
  22. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,305
    I think anybody (including Federer) can benefit from consultations and things like that. But I'm not going to presume that there is any strategy currently out there that'll really work against Nadal on clay. Maybe forcing Nadal into a true north-south game, where Rafa's speed isn't the same, could change his game. People just presume that because Federer loses to Nadal all the time that he struggles on clay. So does everybody else.

    Last year wasn't a good indication because Federer's service percentage wasn't consistently high enough to make it a real match. But, at least, he can say that his BH held up pretty well for the first 2 sets. It was his FH that was not working.

    But Nadal still won all those matches. If you make that argument, you also have to agree that Nadal is making progress on Federer on non-clay court surfaces.
     
    #22
  23. FedForGOAT

    FedForGOAT Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    921
    I never said he wasn't, and besides, that comment is completely off topic.
     
    #23
  24. rogerfederer26

    rogerfederer26 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    125
    Roger Federer grew up on clay. It was the surface of choice when he was learning the game as a boy in Basel, Switzerland. When he left home at 14 to live at a training center in Ecublens the indoor courts were quick Supreme. The outdoor courts were clay. So there is no compelling reason that Roger can't win RG.
     
    #24
  25. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,305
    He's probably the #2 clay player in the world. But the difference between #1 and #2 on clay is even greater than Federer vs. his opponents on hard court.
     
    #25
  26. lambielspins

    lambielspins Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,715
    Except for one: Nadal.
     
    #26
  27. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    3,305
    Yet for whatever reason, majority of people here still pick Federer to beat Nadal everytime every year they meet at the French.
     
    #27
  28. FedForGOAT

    FedForGOAT Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    921
    people always liked to root for the underdog.
     
    #28
  29. RoddickistheMan

    RoddickistheMan Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,068
    He has the game to beat nadal on clay he jsut needs to quit being so stubborn when he attempts to outhit nadal from his backhand. I would like to see more net approaches and serve and volley at this years french. I think all of this will make the difference.
    ________
    FORD DURATORQ ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2011
    #29
  30. TennezSport

    TennezSport Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,885
    Location:
    Northern NJ, USA
    What he said ^^^

    ^^^ This is what I meant when I said Fed needs to mix it up more at the FO. Try to take Rafa out of his comfort zone like he did in the 2K6 final in the first set. More S&V, short angled volleys, deep crosscourt topspin and drop shots to go along with his normal attacking game. Keep Rafa guessing and make him really burn up his legs. Fed has the game to do this but it will take a lot of control and patience. I think Higueras can help with this tactic.

    TennezSport :cool:
     
    #30
  31. Mike Bulgakov

    Mike Bulgakov Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    553
    Location:
    The Future
    Federer's biggest problem the last two French Open finals is that the courts were hard and really taking topspin in the hot conditions. If he tried to play aggressively and take the ball early on the backhand side, he had trouble controlling the ball. He beat Nadal on the slower courts of Hamburg because the cooler, damper conditions meant a lower and more manageable ball from Nadal's forehand.
     
    #31
  32. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    Roger should hire Rickson Gracie and learn Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Rickson could teach Roger the rear choke and armbar then Roger could intimidate Rafa into a French Open loss.
     
    #32
  33. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,065
    I bet you said that last year and the year before that too...

    Anyway the only time Fed will win the French is if Nadal is injured, and Nadal does not get injured as of yet on clay, I don't see Federer winning the French
     
    #33
  34. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,065
    As for the issue, Fed doesn't seem to co any better or worse with or with out a coach, I think eventually he just has nothing more to learn from a coach so he sees no reason to keep him around. With that said with or without a coach he hasn't figured out Nadal and that probably will not change if hes on his own, so if he hires a coach it shouldn't be the years round type, it should be a dirt baller who lives and dies by clay court tennis and can instill some of his experience and mastery into Fed to get over that hump, idk who though so idk maybe other have some suggestions...
     
    #34
  35. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,854
    no, he's already tried to win it with a coach. He just needs a bigger racket.
     
    #35
  36. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,856
    Coach, bigger racquet, etc..............This is going to sound crazy but Fed just needs to play a little better against Nadal when he plays him on clay.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
    #36
  37. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,709
    Location:
    S. Florida
    I think that would be a good choice.
     
    #37
  38. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,038
    Location:
    Toronto
    How on earth will they ever communicate it will be very difficult for Tony nadal to give Federer instructions..... federer aint spanish
     
    #38
  39. RiosTheGenius

    RiosTheGenius Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,818
    I don't think he should hire a coach, but he could hire some street dude to break Nadal's arm so he can't play the clay court season
     
    #39
  40. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,856
    Fed speaks a number of languages and so does Tony I am sure they have one in comon if not english. If not Fed can just hire a translator. You think he could afford one? Hands down this is the best idea out here. Nadal would be so messed up he would be no match for Fed.
     
    #40
  41. Tempest344

    Tempest344 Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,221
    Location:
    Sydney
    the guy would have to have a very strong
    i don't think Rafa's left arm is breakable
     
    #41
  42. Tennis-Chris

    Tennis-Chris Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    280
    Federer doesn't need a coach for clay, he already knows how to win on this surface. He just happens to be playing at the same time as one of the greatest clay court players ever - yes at the age of 21 Rafa already deserves that type of recognition. Federer needs to reinforce the jingle of his main sponsor - Just Do It.:mrgreen:
     
    #42
  43. Zaragoza

    Zaragoza Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    5,433
    Location:
    Zaragoza,Spain
    The same cool and damp conditions we saw in the 2005 semifinal when Nadal beat Federer in 4 sets. The difference in Hamburg was that Nadal had no energy, not the cooler conditions.
     
    #43
  44. Zaragoza

    Zaragoza Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    5,433
    Location:
    Zaragoza,Spain
    First, you don´t hire a coach for the clay season or the hardcourt season. You hire a coach. Period.
    And why is everybody assuming that Federer needs to beat Nadal to win the FO? It has been like this in the last 2 years but it doesn´t mean that Nadal-Federer will be the final year after year. There is a chance that someone can beat Federer or Nadal before the final. Nadal isn´t the only hurdle for Federer and Federer isn´t the only hurdle for Nadal in the FO.
     
    #44
  45. dh003i

    dh003i Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,050
    Federer was playing the right strategy at the FO this year. All of those break-points in the first set prove it. He just didn't convert. He wasn't executing well at all. His serve and forehand were horrible, and it wasn't just that Nadal was making it hard on him. Nadal has little to do with Fed's poor 1st serve %'s at the FO. If he had the 1st server %'s he'd had at Wimbledon, it would've been a different match. His backhand was, however, doing fine.

    1st match at FO SF in '05, I don't think Federer was used to Nadal. FO Final in '06, I don't think he played the right game, plus his backhand let him down. FO Final in '07, he played the right game, but didn't execute when he needed to, forehand and serve let him down; backhand was fine. Of course, Nadal played great all 3 times. But I'm sorry, I don't buy that crap that an all-time great player couldn't have played any better, and was solely made to play bad by another player, even if it's another all-time-great.

    Maybe Federer wins the FO this year. Nadal being in the Final isn't a given (neither is Fed). Nadal's health problems unfortunately are increasing, partly due to his stupid uncle overplaying him; especially Stuggart after the Wimbledon final. Really dumb. Nadal's knee issues have really shown from USO on.

    As for "does Fed need a coach," he's done fine since the Hamburg tournament on without one. I really don't think he needs much more in the way of a gameplan, and it's not anything he can't figure out himself.
     
    #45
  46. lambielspins

    lambielspins Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,715
    Such as who? Ferrer cant handle the high topspin of Nadal on clay since he is too short, and he has a huge mental block playing Federer in general. Davydenko does not have the balls, as Mats Wilander would put, to win a match at a slam vs an opponent like Federer or Nadal. Djokovic isnt that good on clay, which even you have admited a number of times. Nalbandian has had some success on clay, but he really isnt a clay courter either, he is much better on hard courts and indoors then clay, and he has gone 0-4 in the semis of slams since his shock final of Wimbledon in 2002.
     
    #46
  47. flyer

    flyer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,065
    OMG your right on!!! First good point I've see from you, congrats!!!
     
    #47
  48. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    Messages:
    7,854
    He doesnt need a clay coach.

    To win the FO, he needs to hire a sniper to take out Nadal. That can be the 2009 plan after he tries the bigger racket in 2008.
     
    #48
  49. Zaragoza

    Zaragoza Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    5,433
    Location:
    Zaragoza,Spain
    If I had to bet for a final it would be Nadal vs Federer but there is a chance that it doesn´t happen. I wasn´t thinking of anyone in particular. Unexpected things can happen and there is a chance that someone in hot form could beat Nadal/Federer in a given day besides the top players.
    I wouldn´t count out Nalbandian and Davydenko so easily. Nalbandian isn´t a clay-courter but he is good enough and he is mentally strong to beat anyone.Maybe Davydenko won´t choke forever and he can beat anyone on clay someday, at least he got the game on clay, it´s all mental.
    Someone like Mathieu, Monaco...in hot form could be dangerous too (not necessarily these names but someone in the same league). RG has been traditionally the Slam with the most unexpected results and even if Nadal and Federer are above the rest it won´t be forever.
     
    #49

Share This Page