Should Spaghetti strings be made legal again to bring back the serve and volley game?

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by Attila the tennis Bum, Sep 23, 2007.

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Should Spaghetti strings be made legal to combat power tennis and return to S & V

  1. Yes Spaghetti strings should be made legal.

    54 vote(s)
    26.1%
  2. No Spaghetti strings should not be made legal

    96 vote(s)
    46.4%
  3. What the hell are spaghetti strings???

    57 vote(s)
    27.5%
  1. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    In the days of wood racquets a Player by the name of Ilie "Nasty" Nastase played a very interesting match against Guillermo Vilas.

    Vilas at the time held the world record for the most clay court wins in a row which was only now broken by Rafael Nadal.

    "Nasty" Nastase snapped Vilas' world record run using what is known as a spaghetti strung racquet. In fact Vilas became so frustrated that he didnt even finish that match. He just gave up and walked off the court. Vilas was completely frustrated.

    Immediately after the match Vilas and his coach Tiriac made some phone calls and used their political connections to immediately have the spaghetti racquet suspeneded form legal play.

    Later a court battle ensued and the racquet was declared illegal. Up to that point for hundreds of years there were no restrictions on tennis racquets. But now for the first time in history a racquet was made illegal. I guess when a guy like Vilas and Tiriac start screaming people really start to listen.

    But was the banning if the Spaghetti racquet correct? Although the spaghetti racquet did create spin it had virtually no power. Serve speeds wer about 40 mph at top speed. Clearly the invention of graphite & oversized racquets changed the game far more than spaghetti racquets did. Graphite & oversized racquets added so much power that the game changed forever. Players like Mcenroe were now faced with "Power tennis" and the era of serve and volley tennis was fast coming to an end.

    If Spaghetti racquets were brought back you would see a great contrast in styles....Power vs. Spin. Serve and Volley vs. Baseline.

    The fact that spaghetti strings were made illegal because of political connections has hurt the sport and has turned our sport into a one dimensional game. Spaghetti strings would bring back touch and finesse to the game.
     
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  2. No Drop Shots

    No Drop Shots Rookie

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    What are spaghetti strings????
     
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  3. Hidious

    Hidious Professional

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    Very good post! As far as my opinion goes, i was asking myself if spaghetti strings could really compete at the pro level nowadays. Seems unlikely to me.
     
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  4. Morpheus

    Morpheus Professional

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    The strings look like this:

    [​IMG]

    I frankly don't think it would have any impact on S&V or on the baseline play of today for that matter. Back then, spaghetti strings produced some extreme spins at a time when it was hard to impart spin. Today, however, spin is easy and plentiful and I don't think spaghetti strings would get any traction at all.
     
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  5. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    So then why not make them legal?
     
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  6. Gut Reaction

    Gut Reaction Banned

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    Hell yes they should be legal. I think it would add to the excitement of the game.
     
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  7. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Hey check out this pic of the spaghetti....I wonder what it would do inside of a graphite?:


    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    THE BIG TECHNOLOGICAL TENNIS UPSET

    WIDE-BODY RACKETS changed tennis and I became a staple of the game; spaghetti strings changed tennis and were banned. What was the difference?

    BY J. NADINE GELBERG



    INNOVATIONS IN EQUIPMENT HAVE dramatically reshaped many sports, often in very unexpected ways. In the 1980s aerodynamic engineers redesigned the javelin so that with a precise, technically perfect throw, it would fly farther than the strongest athletes had ever thrown it before. In the hands of techniqueoriented athletes it set new records, but it proved dangerous, too, when it landed in a judges’ tent at the 1984 Olympics. Authorities returned its center of gravity to its original position, and the most powerful athletes became the champions once again. In skiing, new plastic boots and bindings have replaced metal and leather ones, and ski patrols respond to fewer broken legs but many more knee injuries.

    Such consequences of technology are hardly new. Way back in the 187Os the introduction of the sliding seat in rowing transformed a choppy upper-body sport into a graceful full-body exercise. In football the rise of the plastic helmet in place of leather, around 1950, allowed the sport to become more brutal, more than tripling the number of neck injuries and doubling the deaths from cervical spine injuries. Changing technology affects the nature of a game, the kinds of athletes who succeed, and how everyone gets hurt.

    In tennis the first new technology to upset the status quo was the racket itself, which appeared around the fifteenth century. Playing tennis with the hand was considered excellent exercise, and the racket reduced effort and sweat. Not only that, but for the Renaissance nobility to which the game belonged, grace and elegance were more important than the power and efficiency the racket could provide. Most players chose simply to ignore it.

    The racket came to dominate very slowly—over more than a century—as tennis changed from a game of handball, jeu de paume. First players adopted gloves to protect their hands; this gave way to rope woven around the hand and then to wooden bats. The first rackets were short by modern standards, and their makers experimented with various stringing patterns.

    RULES GOVERNED the size, weight, compression, and performance of balls, but until 1978 a player could use anything as a racket.
    In the late nineteenth century governing bodies began to regulate tennis balls, eventually specifying their size, weight, compression, and performance, but completely ignored rackets. Until 1978 a player could legally use absolutely anything. Yet until almost that time, wood was the only material good enough to make a decent racket, and wood’s limitations minimized the amount of useful innovation possible. A large-head racket had been briefly introduced in 1885, but it couldn’t withstand the tension needed to string it.

    In 1965 René Lacoste, the French champion, patented a stainless steel racket frame inspired by steel-shafted golf clubs. It was significantly lighter and more aerodynamicalIy efficient than wooden ones, its hollow handle and decreased weight permitting increased velocity and thus shot power. The Wilson Sporting Goods Company marketed it as the Wilson T-2000 and put it into the hands of top players like Jimmy Connors. In 1968—the year tournament tennis turned professional, thereby attracting a flood of new money—Spalding marketed the first aluminum racket. The new metals provided more power, essential for the recreational player, but most of the top tournament players continued to prefer the feel of wood. By the 1970s manufacturers were developing composite materials that offered not only power but also a feel that challenged that of wood.

    In the mid-1970s Howard Head, a recreational tennis player frustrated by his off-center shots, did what many weekend hackers do and blamed his racket. Unlike all the others, though, he did something about it. Twenty years earlier his frustration on the ski slopes had provoked him to launch a revolution in ski materials and manufacturing; now he used his engineering ingenuity to design an aluminum racket that wouldn’t twist when hit off-center. He widened the racket’s face to increase its resistance to angular motion; this produced both a fourfold enlargement of the “sweet spot” target area and a reduction in the vibrations that cause tennis elbow.

    The traditionalists reacted with skepticism. The rules of the game still did not define a racket, and one could even use a broom, as the eccentric star Bobby Riggs was said to have once done. But this racket, marketed by Prince, looked ridiculous. The New York Times jokingly complained that it would bring men “a definite loss of machismo” and women “a loss of grace under pressure.” Even worse, it appeared to offer a substitute for skill and practice, undermining the virtues of the game.

    Many recreational players loved how the new Prince racket offset their lack of talent, but it did not offer any clear advantage to the truly skilled. Professionals didn’t need the larger sweet spot; they already hit accurately. Moreover, the frame was more flexible, so conventional stringing tensions produced a trampoline effect.

    With the introduction of a stiffer aluminum frame, permitting a 20 percent increase in stringing tension, the racket began to show its full potential. In 1978 Pam Shriver reached the final round of the U.S. Open using an oversize Prince, and Gene Mayer used one to climb from 148th in the world to 4th. By 1982 oversize rackets were the hottest items on the Wimbledon courts.

    SUCCESS AND ENDORSEMENTS AMONG THE BIGGEST names in tennis complemented a comprehensive marketing campaign. Prince targeted the racket at the top junior players, into whose still-developing games it injected much-needed power. Older players loved it because the power it offered added to their playing years. It also changed the game itself, by eliminating longer, fluid strokes in favor of shorter, choppier ones and a more aggressive style of play. For weekend players it simply carried them to the next level.

    Although the racket was changing the game, the International Tennis Federation (ITF) continued its tradition of allowing any and all racket innovations. That stopped in 1977, when a more subversive novelty came along.

    In the spring of 1977 Georges Goven, of France, and Erwin Müller, of Germany, two unexceptional touring pros, began using rackets with a new system of double-stringing and upset favorites throughout Europe. In May of that year the Swiss Tennis Federation asked the ITF if the stringing was legal. Since the ITF had no rules about rackets, it was. At the U.S. Open that September, Michael Fishbach, ranked 200th by the Association of Tennis Professionals, upset the 16th-seeded Stan Smith. The new double-stringing system was producing huge upsets as the Prince racket hadn’t. It appeared to wipe out natural talent and years of practice and turn below-average pros into Björn Borgs.

    What double-stringing did was to grab the ball and hold it longer, putting Borg-caliber spin on balls hit with an average topspin stroke. Traditional stringing used a single set of main strings interwoven with a single set of cross strings, all on one plane; the double-strung system had three planes of non-intersecting strings, and the strings had a plastic protective coating that made them look like uncooked spaghetti. This gave the system the popular name “spaghetti strings.” The United States Tennis Association argued in court that it added 30 to 60 percent more spin to the ball; an Italian laboratory calculated the increase at 16 percent.

    Fishbach’s performance at the U.S. Open sent the tennis establishment into an uproar. Then Goven beat Hie Nastase in the first round of a Paris tournament using the new strings. Within a week Nastase himself adopted spaghetti strings, beat Guillermo Vilas in the first two sets of a match, and watched Vilas storm off the court. Nastase with his spaghetti strings had ended a fifty-match winning streak for Vilas.

    The racket was turning predictable shots into wild, unreturnable ones. The fury led the ITF to temporarily ban it on October 3, 1977, only five months after it had first appeared. This was followed by a permanent ban and, finally, after all those centuries, a rule-book definition for the tennis racket.

    Creative people, seeking either profit or a better chance at the game, won’t ever stop trying to come up with new sports technologies. How does, or should, a sport’s governing organization formulate regulations that will preserve the integrity of the sport without inhibiting its growth? It comes down to a matter of balancing athletic challenge, tradition, and innovation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2007
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  9. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Part II

    Athletic challenge means the test of skills and talents that the sport provides. Golf, for example, tests driving distance, accuracy, and putting precision. Bernard Suits, a professor of sports philosophy, defines a game as an activity requiring inefficient means to accomplish a goal for which the means and ends are inseparable—that is, the inefficiencies are accepted purely for the sake of the activity they necessitate. It obviously would be much more efficient to carry that little white ball four hundred yards and drop it in the hole than to stand all that distance away and whack at it with a stick. In making decisions about new technologies, sports organizations need to be sure that the result will not minimize that test of skill.

    Tradition is important because a sport provides a continuously unfolding story. Achievement is measured in terms of past accomplishment, and if progress could not be assessed, each event would exist in a vacuum. Aluminum baseball bats would rewrite sacred statistics and upset the precise balance between pitching and hitting. Further modification of the game might re-establish that balance, and moving back the fences might restore the challenge of hitting home runs that would have been lost, but these changes would forever distance baseball from the game that Americans have followed for a century and a half. No matter what was done, the technology would have delivered an irreversible blow to an invaluable tradition.

    Preserving challenge and tradition does not, however, mean a simple refusal to accept anything new. Technological innovations can democratize a sport and encourage its growth by assuring each athlete the opportunity to express his or her talent.

    The conditions of competition must be equal to guarantee that the winner will be the one who best meets the challenge. Nobody wants the winner simply to be the one with the most money and the best engineering team. But how do we guarantee equality of competition? We could give everyone the exact same golf club, tennis racket, or rowing shell, and any difference at the end of the game, match, or race would reflect athletic skill. Or would it?

    Not necessarily. The winner could simply be the person with the physique and skills best suited to the specific technology in use. In that case allowing athletes to select from some range of technologies might expand the equality of opportunity, in effect creating a more level playing field. After all, imagine making every golfer use clubs of the same length or making every baseball player, big or small, slugger or contact hitter, swing the same bat.

    The Polara golf ball, which has shallower dimples on the poles than around the equator, reduced hooks and slices. The United States Golf Association decided that such a technology would compromise the virtues of skill and practice; many duffers loved it. The Los Angeles Times editorialized that golf should be easier anyway: “It’s a perverse, frustrating game. It provokes coronaries, broken marriages and bickering that destroys lifelong friendships. … A golf ball that always flies straight would do more to increase the life expectancy, reduce the divorce rate and improve the mental health of Americans than all the doctors, marriage counselors and psychiatrists put together.”

    In the 1950s, when Howard Head altered a sport with his introduction of metal skis that warped less and were easier to manipulate than wooden ones, professional skiers decried their use as cheating, but recreational skiers swarmed to the slopes. Just in the past two years the Big and Hourglass skis have transformed expert powder slopes into terrain for many more skiers. As these examples suggest, if sports organizations are to maintain their traditions and standards of difficulty while facilitating the expression of athletic talent, they must evaluate new equipment not only technically but also philosophically.


    Was banning spaghetti strings really the right thing to do? Were they all that dangerous to tennis? The answer is not obvious. The racket made a very dramatic debut, of course, but if players had had the opportunity to adjust to playing against it, its initial advantages might have vanished. Its manufacturers wanted a trial period. They argued that the racket should be allowed for a year, and then a study made of how it had affected the game. A commentator for the London Times agreed. He wrote, “Already there is evidence that players, initially baffled by the effect of the new stringing method, can make the adjustment necessary to overcome it.”

    Although the racket appeared to make the game less of a test of skill, the truth of the matter was more complex. Spaghetti strings did add spin to the ball, but more spin meant decreased speed and power. Players began to hit more like Björn Borg (with heavy topspin) and less like Jimmy Connors (with commanding power). Thus the technology mainly helped players who relied on topspin but had not mastered the skill. It hurt good power shooters, but it also did no good for those who didn’t know how to hit a topspin shot at all, and it was little help to those, like Borg, who already had excellent fast-spinning topspin shots. Although the ITF was certain that the racket simply allowed average players to buy victories at major tournaments, the reality was not nearly so clear-cut.

    DOUBLE-STRINGING appeared to wipe out natural talent and years of practice, turning sub-par pros into Björn Borgs.
    THE REASON LARGE-HEAD RACKETS WERE ALlowed while spaghetti rackets were not may have less to do with their effect on the game than with how they arrived on the scene in the first place. Prince slowly took hold in the recreational market and only then began winning games on the professional tour, taking six years, from 1976 to 1982, to come to dominate top tennis. In this slow invasion its popularity grew steadily, making it difficult to proscribe. Spaghetti strings, on the other hand, hit the professional tour before ever reaching the public. The typical weekend player had no opportunity to get to know and depend on them. Worse still, their initial effect was tumultuous. Unlike metal and composite rackets, whose benefits could be realized only as manufacturing refinements gradually modified the equipment, the spaghetti strings shocked the tennis world at the outset. The London Times commentator opined that “the International Tennis Federation has panicked and made an ass of itself by the banning of what in my opinion was a seven-day wonder.”

    Fertile imaginations and engineering ingenuity are continuing to give tennis’s rule makers headaches. Right now many short tennis players are turning to longer rackets to compensate for a lack of height and power and are especially improving their serves. Do their long-body rackets go too far in seeking a technological solution for problems of physique and skill? The ITF already needs to deal with the ever-increasing power game brought on by new racket materials and designs. Somehow the power game must be curbed without eliminating the technology that has brought the women’s game to prime time and allowed seniors to play for many more years.

    The fact is that technology shapes our games, and regulating that technology is a daunting job. Once new equipment enters the courts, fields, or links, and manufacturers and players have a great deal invested in it, removing it becomes next to impossible. And no one can anticipate what that new equipment will be. One solution might be to regulate the performance allowable from equipment rather than each individual piece of equipment that comes along.

    Returning to wooden rackets is hardly feasible, but curbing the power-serving, backcourt-slamming men’s game may be necessary for retaining fans’ interest. Limiting the amount of power a racket can yield, rather than regulating its design, might protect tennis—and forestall the next big technological tennis upset.

    J. Nadine Gelberg is a Ph.D. candidate in the Department of Kinesiology and the Science, Technology, and Society Program at the Pennsylvania State University studying the history of sports and focusing on sports technology.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2007
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  10. Sonic Srve

    Sonic Srve Banned

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    You don't need that whole article. The above says it all.
     
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  11. Morpheus

    Morpheus Professional

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    I have not problem with them being legal. I just don't think they would be as significant to the game as they were back in the days of wood.
     
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  12. forzainter

    forzainter Semi-Pro

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    first of all, some people may see it but i didnt think it was clear, it was the loss to Nastase that broke his clay court streak, no?

    According to a TENNIS magazine i read, wasnt the racquet due to be banned the monday after the tournament finished anyway?

    I might be wrong. Also, Vilas had already played a 5 hour match the day beforehand with a guy using the spahgetti racquet (it was him that gave the racquet to Nastase to use, i believe).

    Please correct me if i am wrong.
     
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  13. bigfoot910

    bigfoot910 Rookie

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    Just a question, but how would spaghetti strings bring back serve and volley??? Spaghetti strings benefit the die-hard baseliner... More spin, more action. This allows for better passing shots and crazy spins. If anything it would hurt S&V further.

    Anyway, with the new string and racquet technology available I doubt that it would make too much of a difference with todays players, they already have amazing spins and I don't see them being made more, too much spin can be a very bad thing.
    These strings made such an impact in an era where many players lived by the conventional grip and wood racquets (all of the them). Any spin increase would have seemed monumental.
     
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  14. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    one thing you can try (though probably not legal), is applying
    clumps of soft rubber (the kind that dries and adheres to stuff)
    to the strings. Also, you can coat it with pine tar.
     
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  15. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Actually it was not "due " to be banned. It immediately was "suspeneded" after that match and then later banned.

    It was a perfectly legal racquet at the time. The ITF invented new rules in order to ban the racquet.
     
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  16. Jackie T. Stephens

    Jackie T. Stephens Professional

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    Whats wrong with that??
     
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  17. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    well according to the article:


    "The ITF already needs to deal with the ever-increasing power game brought on by new racket materials and designs. Somehow the power game must be curbed without eliminating the technology that has brought the women’s game to prime time and allowed seniors to play for many more years.

    Returning to wooden rackets is hardly feasible, but curbing the power-serving, backcourt-slamming men’s game may be necessary for retaining fans’ interest. Limiting the amount of power a racket can yield, rather than regulating its design, might protect tennis—and forestall the next big technological tennis upset."


    By creating drastic spin returners would have a hard time power bashing. Their returns may be quite weaker allowing net rushers to put more balls away. Also slice approach shots would be far more severe allowing net rushers to be more effective. Serve and volley is not about power but rather placeent....just take a look at Johnny Mac. His wide lefty spin to the the deuce court made his career. Mcenroe would slice and dice you to death with touch not power.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2007
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  18. Jackie T. Stephens

    Jackie T. Stephens Professional

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    Yes so allow it, I need more power.
     
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  19. Gut Reaction

    Gut Reaction Banned

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    The whole reason Spaghetti strings became illegal was due to poor marketing.

    When Prince came out with the oversized graphite racquet they first realeased it to the general public. Slowly it gained acceptance and then worked its way into the pro tour .

    By contrast The spaghetti strings did the exact opposite. They went straight to the pros and made a HUGE splash. They shocked the tennis world rather than first introducing it to the general public and slowly gaining acceptance as Prince did.

    I think spaghetti strings should definitely be made legal again. The whole reason they were made illegal has disappeared. It would actually help the sport now.
     
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  20. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    Spaghetti strings would not bring back S&V tennis. During the brief time they were used S&Vers were not the ones using them. Stan Smith, one of the best S&Vers of his day and still a top player, lost to a player who was a journeyman pro, Peter Fishback (sp?), ranked far below him but who used a racquet with spaghetti strings. Tennis would deteriorate to game of junk ballers--spaghetti strings were banned for good reason.
     
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  21. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    Nadal is the modern-day equivalent of a spaghetti-baller.
     
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  22. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    fishbach was a serve and volleyer and he also played with two hands on both the fh and bh.

    Nastase an all courter who played s & v quite often beat maybe one of the greatest powerbaseliners of his day : vilas.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2007
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  23. djsiva

    djsiva Banned

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    I say lift the ban.

    The crux of the argument was that it "changed the fundamental nature" of the game.

    I think all these new raquets and strings have also "changed the fundamental nature" of the game.

    They got away with banning it by enforcing a uniform string bed.

    But these days and even back then guys would string crosses with one string and the mains with another. Sometimes with different tensions.

    I guess their is uniformity in stringbed there, but so is a uniformily done spaghetti string bed.

    In ping pong, there was a great revolution when people turned the rubbers backwards and then added sponge padding underneath. Did this change the nature of their game?

    Like I said, lift the ban. I don't know if I would ever use it, but I think it is one one to make the game more interesting. I think it will nicely mix things up and force players to take a bit more risk. Since it won't be so safe staying back and waiting for a weak or short ball to pounce on.
     
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  24. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Hmmmm....I wou;d say Santoro is the modern- day equivalent of a spaghetti baller.

    Could you imagine Santoro with a spaghetti racquet???? Now that would be awesome to watch. He almost beats Federer as it is....Maybe a spaghetti racquet would give just the push he needs.

    Isn't watching Santoro exciting? With Spaghetti strings you would have more Santoro's versus guy like Blake.

    By the way the most exciting match of the US Open may have been Santoro vs. Blake. Ever wonder why?? It was the huge contrast in styles that made it so interesting.....and thats exactly what spaghetti strings would do!
     
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  25. djsiva

    djsiva Banned

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    Santoro would be awesome with it.
     
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  26. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    Until someone with the ability like Agassi had to take the ball on the rise came along. The lack of pace combined with taking it off the bounce would have him most likely blown off the court.
     
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  27. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    I think people are forgetting that when the spaghetti strings were used they were used in standard head racquets. I doubt they would work in today's racquets. Again, spaghetti strings would in no way bring back S&V tennis.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2007
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  28. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    i am more of a fettucini guy.

    ps: and also a idiot...
     
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  29. Pleepers

    Pleepers Professional

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    I was thinking maybe hairspray? But I'm sure the felt of the ball would come off and stick to the strings leaving a big mess and less spin after a few minutes of play?
     
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  30. Gut Reaction

    Gut Reaction Banned

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    spaghetti strings would work even better in modern racquets . First of all we now have polyester strings, hexagonal, hybrids string etc etc that are more durable and create more spin and are very durable.

    Secondly in a graphite racquet you would have way more power .
    Third as the racquet heads today are huge compared to the old head sizes you would create even more spin . The hitting plane is now larger and the ball stays longer on the strings

    Finally s & v would definitely come back because "touch" tennis would be back. Its very hard to smack a return at a ball that is spinning extremely out wide. We would also see more santoros with great touch. Santoro is the last of a dying breed and spaghetti strings would bring that sort of "touch" tennis back. No player is more exciting than the "magician" santoro.
     
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  31. Serve and Volley

    Serve and Volley Banned

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    If anything has changed the sport its graphite and oversized racquets. Spaghetti strings would actually bring back tennis the way it is supposed to be played. Spaghetti strings would bring back the integrity of a sport that has been completely ruined by graphite and oversized racquets.

    This fact has already been proven by the fact that officials are desperately trying to save the integrity of the sport by slowing it down. They have slowed all the surfaces down and increased the weight of the balls. But instead of saving the sport they have completely ruined serve and volley tennis and the touch game. Spaghetti strings would return tennis to the way it was intended to be played.

    It would also allow tennis player to play much longer. Santoro is like 35 years old! Guys like Mcenroe would probably still be on the tour.

    It would bring back "thinking" tennis instead of all the slam bam thank you maam crap thats on the tour now. Right now we have a bunch of baseline basher. The days of Hingis and Santoro are gone.
     
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  32. Sliceboy2

    Sliceboy2 Rookie

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    Sphagetti string, I don't think its the solution to slowing down power tennis and bring back S and V players. You can't stop technology of power racquets.
     
    #32
  33. ClayisFun

    ClayisFun Rookie

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    I don't see how this would help S&V either. Or anyone for that matter. Bigger, stronger athletes can hit the ball harder and with more spin than before. How are you going to return a 130+ mph serve with those strings? I just don't see the usefulness. Plus, can you imagine a bunch of 2.5s playing, one with a normal racquet and one with spaghetti strings? It might ruin tennis for the new commers and rec players out there.
     
    #33
  34. Gut Reaction

    Gut Reaction Banned

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    No tennis has been ruined by graphite racquets . Whyvis it I'm to increase power but bot spin?

    As far as returning a 130 mph serve you need very little power . If you just get your racquet on the ball it comes flying back. But with spaghetti strings you would add spin.

    How can it help serve and volley? Ok picture this ..... John Mcenroe has the spaghetti. He us serving to the deuce court against Blake. Mac serves a lefty slice serve as he is famous for except now the serve kicks out wider than it ever has before. Blake lunges with his backhand and hits a weak return. Mcenroe runs to the net and hits a drop spaghetti volley that has so much junk on it that the ball just stops. Blake has no way to get to it.
    ball barely bounces. Blake has no way tp get to it and ghe point is over.
     
    #34
  35. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    The romanticized version of the tennis that was being played with spaghetti racquets put forth in this thread is far from reality. The players who were using spaghetti strings were not playing 'touch tennis', they were junk ballers. They were not hitting deft drop shots, acute angles and precision lobs a la Fabrice Santoro. It was crappy tennis and they were banned for good reason and will never be seen again. Spaghetti strings would not bring back touch (they never had touch) or S&V tennis.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2007
    #35
  36. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Yah tell that to Vilas who got his butt kicked by a spaghetti user by the name of Ilie Nastase. In fact Vilas got such a beating on clay that he simply gave up...he just walked off the court.

    What is more amazing is that Vilas was the Nadal of his day and had the world record for most wins on clay only broken by Nadal. The nastase Vilas match was on clay and snapped his world record. There is no "junk" on clay my friend. Its a slow surface that requires grinding. nastase won that match due to the severe spin which helped him volley the balls away for winners. Vilas was helpless.

    The question gut reaction put forward still remains unanswered:

    tennis has been ruined by graphite racquets . Why is it ok to increase power but not spin?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2007
    #36
  37. PBODY99

    PBODY99 Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, I played against "spaghetti" & even tried it in a standard size fiberglass frame< Yamaha YFG 30>. The spin was fairly unpredictable. I also put that set up up in an Prince Graphite 125 for a player in 1990 or so. He found it fun but not consistent enough for play in a "fun " match. No way would it help bring back S & V.
     
    #37
  38. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Isn't spaggetti strings really heavy and will change the balance of the racket ??
     
    #38
  39. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    Simply wrong. Vilas was not 'out touched' by Nastase--he was out junked. As yes you can junk on clay my friend (have you never played on red clay?)--especially when your opponent is using a small headed wood racquet. Vilas retired after losing the second set 7-5--hardly what I'd call 'getting his butt kicked'. The matches where spaghetti racquets were used had no rhythm, short rallies, and they were crap to watch--tennis would have died had they continued to use spaghetti strings which is why they were banned and will never be seen again.

    And tennis has certainly not been ruined by graphite racquets. For all the talk of 'power tennis' the truth is rallies are longer today than they were in the wood days--by far. In the recent past players like Sampras, Edberg, Rafter, Ivanisevic and others S&Ved with graphite racquets against players using graphite racquets--graphite is not the culprit. The decline of S&V tennis has much more to do with the slowing of the court surfaces--even the grass courts at Wimbledon are slower than many hardcourts, hardly any tournaments are played indoors on fast carpet anymore, or carpet at all for that matter, more tournaments are played on clay, etc., and the fact that more players are growing up playing on slower courts--and the slowing of the balls. And BTW, modern polyester strings have increased the amount of spin on the ball and I still do not see any increase in S&V, in fact the reverse is true. So the theory is fatally flawed. The notion that spaghetti strings would bring back S&V tennis is just patently absurd.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2007
    #39
  40. Alafter

    Alafter Hall of Fame

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    Can you imagine Nadal forehand with a speghetti mod aeropro drive?

    Playing agaist him = dont let that ball touch the ground. If it touches the ground, you may pick the ball back up from the audience.
     
    #40
  41. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    Again, it is clear you never saw how the ball reacted or hit with a spaghetti racquet and share the romanticized view of others in this thread. He would not be able to swing at the ball like he does now if he used spaghetti strings in his racquet. You couldn't just thrash at the ball like he does with spaghetti strings due to the uneven-ness of the hitting surface. As it is now his forehand has so much spin on it even hitting it out of the air as a volley is tricky. As another poster pointed out the spin off spagheti strings was not predictable, either for the 'hitter' or the 'hittee'. It was all about junk--not skill.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2007
    #41
  42. Alafter

    Alafter Hall of Fame

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    At this point i just take it as your romanticizing vs my romanticizing about what the spaghetti strings will do. After all, there is no evidence supporting either what I think or what you think. The words of a couple of people on this board isn't exactly evidence either.
     
    #42
  43. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    There is plenty of evidence--you just need to look for it. Talk to me when you've actually hit with a spaghetti strung racquet. I have.

    In one of the OP's own post he quotes an article that says 'predictable shots turned into wild unreturnable ones', graphite racquets don't do that. Again, it took the skill out of the game. To quote an article: 'When a 40 year old Barry Phillips-Moore, well past his tennis prime, made it to the round of 16 at the Belgium Open in 1977 with a spaghetti strung racquet, the innovation and not Phillips-Moore's talents were cited as the reason for his success.'

    I can understand why the 3.0 players on this board would want spaghetti strings made legal again, they might actually win a match.

    And BTW, last I looked the poll is more than 2-1 against spaghetti strings.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2007
    #43
  44. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    this racquet could help bring back the serve and volley game? Wow that is amazing because nobody in the atp's top 10 is a serve and volley player.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2007
    #44
  45. Burt Turkoglu

    Burt Turkoglu Rookie

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    Yes....I can imagine...it might add much needed variety to the game....I loved the Blake/Santoro match.....
     
    #45
  46. coloskier

    coloskier Legend

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    Tiriac is the richest man in Romania. Believe me, he has the stroke to get a racket banned, especially since it was his Davis Cup partner who was beating his pupil.
     
    #46
  47. djsiva

    djsiva Banned

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    If they show beach tennis, platform tennis,ping pong, and badmitton on the tennis channel, they should show us a match with spagehetti rackets.
     
    #47
  48. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    They have. They showed an old WTT match featuring Ilie Nastase using the same 'double strung' racquet he used against Vilas--which by-the-way did not look like the ones pictured in this thread. The commentators from back then noted how difficult it was for Nastase to volley with the racquet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2007
    #48
  49. Attila the tennis Bum

    Attila the tennis Bum Banned

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    Man i would love to see that!!!!!! What was it like???

    I have hit with a simulated spaghetti but I have never actually seen a pro hit with it. Did the ball do wicked things? or is the spaghetti myth blown out of proportion?
     
    #49
  50. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    Nastase played with a Continental grip, with the 'double strung' racquet he was able to hit with more topspin than he normally did. They ball did not do 'wicked things' as he did not use the full spaghetti strung racquets shown in the earlier pictures in this thread. As stated, with the racquet he had trouble controlling his volleys which showed up when he played in the doubles. The match was played indoors on carpet. He didn't go to net much when he beat Vilas on their match on red clay.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2007
    #50

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