Should this guy be dntrp DQ'ed?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by tom10s, May 27, 2010.

  1. tom10s

    tom10s New User

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    Self-rate ringer. last played 4.5 league where he went undefeated including usta district tournament. here are his scores so far:
    all singles
    6-3 6-0 vs benchmark 4.0
    6-0 6-0 vs appealed 4.0(was bumped to 4.5 at yr end, appealed back to 4.0)
    6-0 6-2 vs benchmark 4.0
    6-3 6-2 vs benchmark 4.0

    there is a lot of consternation about this self-rate sandbagging ringer. he has even admitted that he souldn't be playing this level. but this hasn't stopped him from playing so far. he beat a 4.5 straight sets recently in non-usta match.
     
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  2. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Sounds like he's been playing more than a year (since he played at districts...not sure anyone has gotten that far yet?), which would give him a computer rating, and thus he would not be subject to a DQ.
     
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  3. Austinthecity

    Austinthecity Rookie

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    A 4.5 should beat a 4.0.

    Am I missing something?
     
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  4. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Even though he used to play in a 4.5 league, somehow he is a self-rated 4.0 player. Thats what I gather from the OP.
     
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  5. autumn_leaf

    autumn_leaf Hall of Fame

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    i don't play league but from what i hear if he has been playing more than a year he should be computer rated by now and won't be dq'ed.

    if this is his first time i find it hard to believe he hasn't be dq'ed or multiple complaints filed against him from other teams especially the strikes against him for handedly beating benchmark players.

    all in all i think he'll be bumped up by the end of the year so the sand bagging won't last for long.
     
    #5
  6. tom10s

    tom10s New User

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    he is now self-rated after multi-year layoff from usta.
     
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  7. tom10s

    tom10s New User

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    former 4.5, now a self-rated 4.0, beat a current 4.5
     
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  8. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Hes really not that good, he'll choke sooner or later.
     
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  9. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I think someone should file a self-rate grievance against him. The fact that he played 4.5 league tennis would mean there is evidence to back up the claim that he is a 4.5 player.
     
    #9
  10. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I have a conference call with the NTRP Police at 11am.

    I'll bring this to their attention.

    In the meantime, if someone has his SSN# I'd like to do a background and criminal check on this guy.

    Thanks.
     
    #10
  11. BustedString

    BustedString Rookie

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    The success of a self-rate grievance depends upon, IMHO, how he did in his prior years of playing and any tournaments that are in TennisLink. The crieteria, per USTA published guidelines, is that you must submit proof (beyond play on the self-rate) that the player is at the high end of the next level. This means that you need to submit documentation of matches played in prior years for USTA leagues, or tournaments, that show him as a high-end 4.5. Did he dominate when he was a 4.5? They may look to see his last specific NTRP and if it is high-end 4.5 that would support it. Did he play college? You can go to the ITA web site to look that information up. If you change the year at the end of the URL for a player's league records, you can then find tournament results that won't automatically show up on TennisLink league searches. If you are interested, PM me and I can explain that in more detail.

    The current results won't be really reviewed by a self-rate grievance committee. They will let the computer handle that. To win you need to provide proof of him beating, or being competitive with, high-end 4.5's in the past. Providing proof that he was a 4.5, or that he can hang with 4.5 players, is not usually going to be enough. The specific rule states that a self-rate grievance won't be successful unless you can prove that they are at the HIGH end of the next level. Not just the next level but the high end of it. Get the objective documentation and then submit it, if it is available.
     
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  12. BustedString

    BustedString Rookie

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    Also, just because someone is a benchmark doesn't necessarily mean that their actual, specific, DTRP is higher than a non-benchmark. It just means that they played in a post-season match, even if it was a local league playoff.
     
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  13. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    If he is self-rated and producing these results, he will very shortly be DQ'd by the computer based on three strikes. Looks like he would already have somewhere between 2-4 strikes. So just chill and let the system work.
     
    #13
  14. tom10s

    tom10s New User

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    is this pacific time? if so can you conference me in? i'll try to get the info you need in the mean time. :)

    ps: i think we can lift his fingerprints from can of balls he opened at his most recent blowout win. :twisted:
     
    #14
  15. SJS

    SJS New User

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    Agree with the above. In our league we just had a self-rated 4.0 doubles player with very similar results DQ'd on the fourth match. And usually doubles players are a little bit safer.
     
    #15
  16. tom10s

    tom10s New User

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    He just got DQ'ed! :)
    nice to see the system work.
     
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  17. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Good to hear. Lucky he was an *honest* sandbagger... meaning at least he was not trying to manipulate scores to make his wins seem less one-sided.
     
    #17
  18. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    I was thinking the same thing. Either didn't understand the system or just didn't care - enjoyed taking less talented players to the woodshed. Good riddance.
     
    #18
  19. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    We had a guy DQd on his 5th match. He was self-rated and really should have played 4.5 from the start but had never played USTA before and signed up at 4.0. Not really his fault, and he didn't try to manipulate anything, just played until he was DQd. His scores were

    6-0 6-2 singles vs 4.0 C - rising 3.5
    6-1 6-0 singles vs low 4.0 C
    6-0 6-1 singles vs 4.0 C - rising 3.5
    6-0 6-3 doubles vs self-rate 3.5s
    6-1 6-1 doubles vs 4.0 C - one rising 3.5 and one low/mid 4.0

    The guys he played weren't all that highly rated, but the margin of victory was just too big, so it looks like the algorithm is more sensitive to the margin of victory than the strength of opponent. I'm guessing matches 1, 2, and 5 were the strikes, but who knows. At least 5 had to be.
     
    #19
  20. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Did he play another match? What was the score?

    The computer would have disregarded the double-bagel and in one match he gave up five games, so I'm thinking there must have been another match.
     
    #20
  21. amarone

    amarone Semi-Pro

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    While he may have played another match, it is not necessarily so. If he was above the strike level after three matches and had accumulated 2 strikes, all the next match has to do is keep him above the strike level for him to pick up his third strike. Each individual match does not have to generate a strike-level rating in its own right - you get a strike for being above the strike level. It is even possible for his dynamic rating to have fallen after that fourth match and for him still to get a strike.

    Example - the DQ level for a 4.0 is 4.2. After three matches, he may have been, say, 4.31. After the fourth match his dynamic rating may have fallen to 4.22, but that will still generate his third strike.

    Remember that the order of results counts because previous results are part of the calculation of current dynamic rating. Hence 3&0, 0&2, 3&2 can generate three strikes, whereas 3&2, 3&0, 2&0 could possibly generate only one or two.
     
    #21
  22. tom10s

    tom10s New User

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    Those are the only 4 usta matches he played. Like Amarone speculated, i bet his dntrp was above strike level despite 3-2 score in final(4th) match yielding 3rd strike.
     
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