Should this player move down or up from his self rating?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by ssjkyle31, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    Should this player (closest to the camera) move down or up from his self rating? This player 8 months won 75% of his matches at 3.0. At 3.5, this play won 65% of his matches. He went to 3.0 sectional and 3.5 sectional. In the video he is playing a USTA 4.5 player.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qZj2b9vFfI
     
    #1
  2. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Messages:
    208
    He still lost 35% of his matches to 3.5 players, and unless those 3.5 players moved up to 4.0 and he crushed his competition in his wins including 3.5's that were bumped up, I would say he should stay at 3.5.
     
    #2
  3. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,947
    If he played all of those matches,why would he have a self rating?

    That's not enough data to go by because it goes by games, not matches won and lost. If he had a enough close scores against so-so 3.0 players that could drag him down.

    It likely would be retarded for him to continue to play 3.0 though. If the system gives him a 3.5 then Im not sure anyone can have a beef with that, unless he won 100% of his matches quite easily and it became just pointless for him to even go out there and play.
     
    #3
  4. RestockingTues

    RestockingTues Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    770
    Location:
    Fremont, Ca
    He looks like a 3.5.
     
    #4
  5. kashgotmoney

    kashgotmoney Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,188
    yah, 3.5, my best guess
     
    #5
  6. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,489
    Looks like a 3.5 to me. Winning 65% of your matches is not enough to bump in him up. He should be winning 80-90% to move up
     
    #6
  7. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    All those matches he played were non sanction matches so they don't count. I believed most of his loss were close and he was ill at that time. In the video he actually playing with a strain groin muscle. In this match it went to tie breakers.
     
    #7
  8. VERRIC

    VERRIC New User

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Sound like a sandbagger. His court awareness and movement to good for a 3.5.
     
    #8
  9. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,489
    Well sanctioned or non sanctioned he still wasn't winning them. If he has close matches with 3.5s then I am not sure how you can move him up- sounds like he is playing at the right level.

    If he was ill and injured-well who knows I guess he could be higher level. I can't really tell from the vid. :confused: It sounds like you are trying to get people to say his rating is too low?
     
    #9
  10. VERRIC

    VERRIC New User

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Isn't WTT sandbag heaven
     
    #10
  11. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    Sorry I interpete the numbers wrong. He actually had no loss at 3.0 wining 75% of all his games during a match. At 3.5, he lost 2 matches and won 65% of his games during a match.

    WTT is leagues has the potential for higher rated players to play in lower level teams provided that the average of the top players rating are in the rating of the league.
     
    #11
  12. albino smurf

    albino smurf Professional

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    In a cloud of yellow fuzz
    You look like a 3.5 to me. Why do you refer to yourself in 3rd person?
     
    #12
  13. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    5,484
    Location:
    Stillwater, OK
    Ahahahahahahaha!

    Seriously though, I think this guy is fine right where he is. He could probably be a 4.0 if he got his movement up to snuff though.
     
    #13
  14. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    5,995
    I'm confused because of discussions of 3.0 and 3.5 sectionals, WTT, and non-sanctioned matches. So I don't know if either of those players in the video are playing in sanctioned USTA leagues.

    I would say it could go either way though. If he went into tie-breakers with a legit 4.5, then he doesn't belong at 3.5. By the looks of his game though, I can't tell. Not bad but not that impressive either.
     
    #14
  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    41,982
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    His serve is really weak.
    His backhand is about as weak.
    His forehand is fine.
    His fitness .... he looks waaaay overweight.
    He moves OK, especially in regards to his weight.
    His hitting partner is just feeding him balls.
    He's 3.5 until he wins some higher level matches. He probably won't.
     
    #15
  16. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    Thank you all for the comments.

    I knew when I posted this video I would get a variety of comments.

    I always wonder about the accuracy of my self rating. I had too many complaints when I played WTT league that I was playing too low for 3.0 and 3.5.

    LeeD had some blunt comments about my weight which I can't complain because I need to lose about 15lbs. The backhand comment was spot on. My backhand suck. I sliced about everything on the backhand side but it is consistent during match play. On the serve, I had to choose between power and consistency. Thanks for the comment on movement on the court.

    LeeD look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCRV9sfPxoQ. These are supposed to be 3.5.
     
    #16
  17. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,216
    Location:
    Big Orange Nation
    In the video you were playing 2 singles? right. if you wernt even the best player on your "team" then you deff. shouldnt be thinkin of movin to 4.0, maybe movin to the #1 spot, then move up. you serve isnt THAT good, you have a pretty good weapon you can rely on, but other strokes are weak(backhand) didnt get to see any volleys. (except the easy overhead, which you put away easy.) you need to learn to hit that backhand, and you'll be alright. but a legit 4.0 would pound that backhand, and as soon as you sliced it a bit short hed put it away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2009
    #17
  18. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    Thank you, I know my backhand is probable the weakest part of my game that why i tend to run around it alot. The other link is just a you tube video of a USTA league match (that not me). In WTT league play I only lost two matches at 3.5.

    During match play, I only use a backhand drive slice, backhand floating slice or backhand lob (only if I can't run around to my backhand).
     
    #18
  19. jasoncho92

    jasoncho92 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    900
    LeeD once again this isnt the 5.0 level. That serve is about average for 3.5-4.0 level, not really weak. According to the stats you gave and how he plays, i would say he should move up. Losing twice and winning 65% of games in 3.5 seems like a 4.0 to me. Only if hes played about 10 times though
     
    #19
  20. kelz

    kelz Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    886
    He's about my level - 3.0 sounds fair, 3.5 for his better form on forehand.
     
    #20
  21. iamke55

    iamke55 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    1,083
    65% of games means he's winning about 6-3 6-3 in matches. Shouldn't a player at any level easily win 6-1 6-0 against a player 0.5 level lower? I doubt a legit 6.5 would be getting 3 games a set against Nadal.
     
    #21
  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    41,982
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I don't know about you guys.
    If anyone tried to stand there when I serve, and I'm lefty, so that's where you might stand to cover my wideswing slice, I'd hit 85mph flats slightly wide of the wide corner and ace you half the time!
    I'm 59 and claim only 4.0 in California!
    And if I put out that much energy 5 years from now, when I'm 64, I'd be playing at 70%.
    Those guys play like 3.0's to me. Maybe they actually play 3.5 tournaments, but guaranteed they don't have the mental toughness to get into 4.0's.
    Strokes barely 3.0.
    Effort 3.0.
    What, are they pacing themselves or stuck in molasses?
    Unless they moved better, get in position quicker, can actually catch their own ball, I'd say I could mostly one and one them, if not bagel and one gimme!
    And I still claim tournament 4.0 !!!!
     
    #22
  23. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    5,995
    I played alot of #2 singles at 3.0 (second best player) and got moved up to 4.0. Go figure.

    Not all 4.0s can put away shots. Some win simply with consistency and not hitting too many weak shots. I haven't played too many 4.0s yet, but there are 2 that I can think of that couldn't hit winners but just out-lasted me during rallies.

    Depends on if that player is at the top or bottom of the level and where you are at your level. Also depends on if you play your best or have an off day. Its hard to play well enough to win 6-0, 6-1 every time you play someone unless they are say 1.0 below you.
     
    #23
  24. Storm

    Storm New User

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25
    LeeD i'm just curious how tall are you, the reason i asked is because it might be easier for you to hit serve 85 out wide, the man in the video does not seem to be that tall.
     
    #24
  25. Mada

    Mada Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    My house
    Such harshness. :twisted:

    To the OP, could you put up a video of un-cut points? You don't look bad but it's easier to judge watching a match with full points and not ones that are fading in and out every 5 seconds.
     
    #25
  26. badmice2

    badmice2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    275
    Unless you have a strong serve and volley game and play mostly doubles, there's no way you'll survive 4.0. that fact that you have close to zero backhand shots, you're just an average 3.5 with 2 shots...serve and a forehand. most 4.0 singles players (i'm from Norcal) can defend or play offense on their backhand side without problem. Seeing that you run around your backhand with limited shot selections afterwards makes you predictable; most 4.0 will have you picked apart from the baseline alone.
     
    #26
  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    41,982
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I'm 5'11" and 140 or so in my singles playing days.
    My 4 out of 7 allowed serves in '77 fast serve contest all went over 128mph.
    By the time I was 5'1 and 90 lbs., I could throw a football 70 yards or 200+ feet. I wanted to throw javelin in highschool, but they stopped that my sophmore year so I played varsity basketball instead. Fall JV football.
    By the time I started playing mens B tournaments, maybe 4.5, my serve was run of the mill slightly faster than average.
    But I was left handed. Quicker than 90% of the competition, and the worse thinking walkabout head ever possible in a competitive player.
    I blame it on the fact I was supporting myself, and shaping/glassing surfboards can be a stressful job when you live in a cold climate that doesn't allow resin to set on time.
     
    #27
  28. Mada

    Mada Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    My house
    How could you serve it that fast when you were that small(no offense) ??
     
    #28
  29. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,736
    Location:
    USA
    3.5 might be about right, but he has a seriously weak backhand.
     
    #29
  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    41,982
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Mada...
    I'm not on here to stroke your ego or make anyone else feel good about their games.
    I want all of you to improve your game by several LEVELS.
    Being nice just finishes second place, so I gotta MOTIVATE you to get off your butts, make the effort, embrace the idea you WILL get good, and start using the strokes and grips proven in the PRO ranks, not junior 14's.
    Does your coach kiss your butts, treat you like gods, and buy you ice cream?
    NO, he drills you into condition, he makes you hit repetitive shots, he forces you to practice BEYOND your capabilities so you will learn more advanced shots by practicing NOW, not later.
     
    #30
  31. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    5,995
    First, are YOU the player in the video?

    Second, did the person in the video go into tiebreakers with a 4.5 player? I think that should have some indication of whether he's just a 3.5 or maybe higher.
     
    #31
  32. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    41,982
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Mada...
    Consider... when I was 13 and 5'1" tall, I could already throw a regulation NFL football just over eight houses worth (25' per house) in the SunsetDistrict in front of my parent's house.
    I didn't start tennis until I was 24. Hey, this is California and I had to surf, race roadracing, jump competitive waterski tournaments, THEN try out tennis.
    5'11" is plenty for top level fast serving.
    Chang at a true 5'7" can serve 120.
    AlbertoBarasetechi (bad spelling, but tough name), at 5'6 could serve about 110 in clay court tournaments.
    HaroldSolomon at 5'7 could serve easy 120, but didn't because he used eastern backhand side of continental, and he was a conservative fetcher.
    EddieDibbs at 5'8 couldn't serve much over 105, but neither did McEnroe OR Connors.
    Dick Stockton was barely taller than me. Raul Rameriz was maybe two inches taller. They were OK.
    RoscoeTanner hung around while I strung rackets for the Wilson team, and thous he was maybe 6' tall and 190, he wasn't that much taller than me.
     
    #32
  33. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,489
    Uh 25 feet per house? What kind of houses are those? Sounds like packed in apartment or condos. At what about the lots these houses are sitting on?

    Anyways even if i were to believe that, 200 feet is 67 yards. A 13 year old 5'1" boy throwing 67 yards with a regulation size NFL football? That would be pretty insane. I know some 16-18 year olds that can't throw that far and they are high school QBs.
     
    #33
  34. Mada

    Mada Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    My house
    That's pretty amazing =\. I'm about 5'8-5'9 and I'm getting a radar gun supposedly Thursday, and then I'm going to clock my serve ASAP. I highly doubt its above 85 though, I don't get how people can serve it so fast; but then again I don't really know how to snap my wrist well. I try but I'm not sure how well it works haha.
     
    #34
  35. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    41,982
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Like I said, the JV and Varsity football coaches weren't impressed either! They collectively told me to forget football, and to maybe take up tennis.
    Mike Holmgren was my Varsity QB when I was in 11th and 12th grades. I was outside linebacker and tight end, so always ended up somewhat near the line of scrimmage after plays.
    When I found myself 20 yards downfield, the WR's and DB's would let the ball lay there after a missed post play, I'd jog down and throw it back past the now developing huddle.
    Post play is a long pass to a wideout running full speed from the LOS. The pass normally travels at least 40 yards downfield. Consider it bounces a few after that.
    I'd normally throw it OVER the huddle, to the waiting second string QB who watched and learned, but never played. He didn't try to catch it.
    Remember, there's a huge difference between and outfielder's motion from that of a pitcher. Neither can do the other well.
     
    #35
  36. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    Im the one in the video.
     
    #36
  37. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    I don't know your video isn't much better either. But I can tell you can still kick some butt.
     
    #37
  38. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    Anyway, I always thought the players who look effortless on the court tend to be very good players. They are always in position because good anticipation. There strokes don't looked forced or labored, but the effects on the ball gives the results with good placement.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2009
    #38
  39. Mada

    Mada Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    My house
    Where is his video? Could you post a link to it?
     
    #39
  40. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    730
    I found a video of him playing mixed doubles with a junior girl. from a previous post of his. Purely accident but he not bad. Looks to be a 3.0 from the baseline but he's a killer at the net.
     
    #40
  41. Mada

    Mada Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    My house
    Could you post it? >.>
     
    #41

Share This Page