Shoulder Injury

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by xnarek, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    What is the best option now for me? I do wanna aim for pro, so should i just wait months until it goes away? I havent played tennis for 3 weeks already and its still here, i kept a lot of my style after 3 weeks, but still cant hit correctly with my forehand, or any motion that extends my right arm.
    It does not hurt in normal activities, only in sports or any quick arm action.
    When i played tennis today, i could feel my forehands joint(i think) I think what i felt was like 2 bones away from each other, which off course is the arm and the shoulder bone, part, i don't know any scientific names.
    So, how long is the average time for this injury to die off? Is there a fast way? or some equipment intentionally made for the pain to stop while playing tennis?
    What should i do in the mean time?
    And is there any way to keep my tennis style, until the shoulder is fully healed?

    If you could answer this questions i would be very happy, and hope that the answers will be positive. Thanks for reading.
     
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  2. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    How old are you? Have you had this check by a doctor?

    Can't quite figure out what you are trying to say here. Hard to imagine what part of your shoulder hurts and which motions seem to bother you. Does the service motion bother you or is it only forehand groundstroke motions? It is possible to over-stress the shoulder if you frequently use an extreme open-stance forehand.

    How heavy is your racket? Very light rackets can also cause shoulder problems.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2008
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  3. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    where exactly does it hurt?

    forearm bones your feeling are your ulna and radius
    then you have the humerous( big bone in your arm)
    then you have like your clavical(collar bone)

    is it hurting like right where your arm connects with your torso, if that was the problem you may be having some rotator cuff problems, which would be my first guess if its your shoulder hurting when you move it fast
     
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  4. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    I turned 15 in march
    -I had this check before long ago, she said wait 2 weeks and see if it heals or not. Now we didnt go to the doctors again, i keep telling my dad but he just ignores it away.
    -Ur right, 2 years ago i switched to open stance, may be that is the problem. About 1 month ago i started to hit with closed stance(like i had done since i was 3)
    -I use a flexpoint radical, i dono how heavy you would call that :/ depends on the person
    -I know, i wish it isnt rotator cuff. It hurts when i try to throw a ball, with the same motion as a baseball pitcher.
    -SystemAnomaly, im not too sure... I think it hurts in both forehand and serve. < Im really not too sure which is capitalized though..
    -BullDogTennis, im not too sure about that too, the area that it hurts at. Right arms top, shoulders bottom. Like all the way up my right arm, i guess. (where it connects to my shoulder)
    -When i do the arm spin to start off my excersize*, it hurt. Before i stopped playing it didnt as much, and i didnt feel too bothered doing it.
    Now ive played with "the pain" for a long time, so i dont know if it JUST started to hurt harder, or if my body was used to the pain. All i know is that it hurt pretty much "a lot", and enough to change my style to "Falling Back" instead of "Going To The Ball" on my forehand.

    God i wrote a lot there i hope u actually want to read it lol

    And omg, i just heard that Justin Henin retired, thats sad :(
     
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  5. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    ... why the hell would your dad ignore pain in your shoulder?

    Where is the pain specifically, outside of the shoulder? or IN the shoulder? "Rights arms top, shoulders bottom"... I have no idea where that is. If the pain is IN the shoulder, most likely a rotator cuff injury.

    Tell your dad your shoulder is bothering you and you can't carry out normal everyday activities without pain.

    You didnt write a lot, it's not like we dont want to read it, we just dont understand what you're writing. Half of what you wrote is gibberish.
     
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  6. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, you really should get your parents to take your shoulder pain more seriously. Do you have a tennis coach you can talk to? If not, ask one of the tennis coaches at your school what he thinks of your shoulder pain. Perhaps, if they see your FH swing or your service motion, they might detect a problem with your mechanics. You might be trying to generate too much of your power with just your arm. Make sure that you are using your legs (bending your knees) and rotating your body in order to get your arm & racket moving.

    The Flexpoint Radical is probably a decently weighted racket -- it is not too light. I am not aware of any specific problems with that particular frame, but you might ask around or try a search in the equipment forum. If you are using polyester strings on your Radical, that could be a contributing factor in your shoulder pain.

    The arm spins that you talk about -- are you talking about the arm circles warm up exercise? Does it hurt in both directions? Do you feel pain if you swing your arm forward and back like a pendulum? Or does it only hurt when you swing it overhead? How about if you swing it out to your side?

    As for the open-stance forehand, try using a semi-open stance instead of an extreme open stance. Also use the square (neutral) stance a lot as well. But do not use an extreme closed stance for your FH strokes. If your stance is closed too much, you might not be rotating your hips and this might be causing you to "arm" your swing and stress your shoulder too much.
     
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  7. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    -I dono why he does ignore it, and he is the nearest tennis coach.
    -When i play tennis i think i do bend my legs, just not too much( got a bit lazy) Im gonna start bending though. And i think i do move my whole body not just my whole hand when i hit the ball.
    -Hmm ill check my strings next time i get a chance
    -Yea, its the arm circles warm up. And i think it hurts both sides.
    -I dont think it hurts when making my arm swing like a pendulum. I just did it mildly, not speedy and it doesnt hurt.
    -As i remember, it hurts only the first couple of overheads, then it barely hurts. I got no idea why, probably used to the pain. But now that i took a break from tennis for a long while, i think it will hurt more on an overhead.
    -I dont think it hurts to swing my arm to my side.
    -Well, i do kinda use a semi-open stance. I forgot if i was trying to do closed or semi open -_-. My dad wants it semi-open though.
     
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  8. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    it really sounds like you got a rotator cuff injury, i to have one right now, but thankfully its in my left arm(from doing bench press, and other excerses like that) you said it only hurts for the first couple of overheads, i think thats becuase your stretching it, make sure you stretch it ALOT

    i myself have some pain in my left arm like i said, try to do that stretch where you put your arm behind you head kinda and pull it with your other arm and see if that hurts, i know it hurts me alot.

    oh, and i dont think the radical is the problem, i played with that racket up until 2 weeks ago and i changed to a kblade tour...never had any trouble with it.
     
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  9. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    Ah you are a very lucky man :/ you got the injury on your Left arm lol.
    Yea it only hurts for the first couple of overheads, i guess i didnt stretch it enough. But now that i actually have the injury, is it worth playing tennis at this time? Or resting the arm?
    It is possible to play by stretching a lot before practice, but wont the shoulder get worser? Or still hurt enough to mess up the stroke.
    I also do have the same problem with me LEFT as well( i think ) But its minor.

    P.S. My right hand cant reach my left from the back, lol. I can only do it with my left up, and right arm down.
     
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  10. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Arm circles hurts on both sides? Do you mean in both directions or are you saying both arms hurt when doing this warmup exercise? BullDog is probably right about it being a rotator cuff injury. However, it could be a pinched nerve or something else.

    If you perform static stretches prior to playing or service practice, do so at least 20-30 minutes beforehand. It should also be fairly light stretching. Immediately before your tennis sessions, be sure to perform a warmup that includes dynamic stretching (like arm circles and pendulum swings). Also include some shadow (practice) swings without the ball -- easy at first and gradually increasing the speed of the body turn & racket swing.

    Try another shoulder test. With your arms hanging at your side, bend your elbows 90 degrees so that your hands are (up) directly in front of your body. Keeping your upper arms at your sides, rotate them so that your hands are now pointing to the sides. Do you have the same range of motion with both arms? Do you feel any pain if you try to go too far or if you rotate your arms outward quickly? How about when you rotate them back (inward) to the starting position (quickly)?

    The semi-open stance is a very good thing to learn. However, you don't really have to use it for every single FH. Andre Agassi, one of the players that popularized the open stance FH, probably used a step-in neutral stance about as much as he used the open stance. Watch Federer hitting his FHs -- he uses open stance, neutral stance, and even some closed stance FHs. However, you should probably minimize the number of fully-open and extreme closed stances with your FH shots.
     
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  11. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    Arm circles hurt on both directions only for my right arm, not for my left.
    Will static stretches really help? I mean... for my condition? Ill try to do 30 minutes of arm stretching, and some legs as well. Ill give the result. Thanks :)
    -By the shoulder test, i dont get when you say "rotate them so that your hands are now pointing to the sides" If i understand the image correctly, i cant go all the way :/ .
    If i did do that right (im not sure about this) then it doesnt hurt much. Its kinda like a tingle pain. Like i feel where the pain is, but dont really trigger it.

    Oh i see. The semi-open stance does work i think for me and the shoulder pain. I came from minor tennis practice today, and my goal in the practice was to hit the ball slowly so that there is no pain, and to use semi open stance, and bend my body to the side. There were some times that i did both correctly and i dont think i felt pain. or it was VERY minor.
    When i played in the middle of the court, it didnt hurt again as well. It mostly only hurts when the ball is really close to my body, and there fore my arm has to be close to my body. When i hit the ball like this>*arm close to my body because the ball is* , i feel pain.

    Oh and today i tried to serve once, i did a VERY slow serve, not even a serve motion. I just tried to do the arm part of the serve only. When i raised my arm and tried to extend it to hit the ball, it hurt at the extending part. Even when i try to do a "shadow" overhead pretty slowly, and i felt a tingle on the shoulder part. Because of the "tingle" i know that if i hit a real overhead it would hurt.

    Anyway, thanks for you're time :)
     
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  12. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Don't know if the static stretching will help -- maybe, maybe not. However, I don't think that you should do 30 minutes of arm stretching -- sounds too excessive. I had suggested doing some easy stretching 20-30 minutes before you play or before you practice your serve. I would only do the arm stretches for a minute or so. If you want to do an extended session of static arm stretching, do it after you are finished with your tennis for the day.


    The ending position for the shoulder test (for external rotation) that I mentioned should look something like Fig. 1 below. Check to see if your range of motion for your right arm is as good as it is for your left one. You can also do the test lying on your side with a weight (as n Fig. 2). If it appears that your shoulder is limited for the external rotation test, then this might be an exercise you can perform several times a week.

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    Check the following for other tests (and exercises):

    acefitness.org/getfit/exercise_display.aspx?itemid=426

    nismat.org/orthocor/exam/shoulder.html#Evaluation

    www.aafp.org/afp/20000515/3079.html

    exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html#anchor110483 (scroll up for more)

    orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00067

    sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/shoulder-exercises.html
     
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  13. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    Oh next time i go ill try to serve. Because last time i served it hurt, but may be it will stop after a couple of serves?
    < Or is it way too hard for my shoulder, should i just let it rest and skip serving?
    Thanks for the links :) Are those for shoulder recovery or shoulder muscle buildup? Just wondering.
     
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  14. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    I dont think i have lost a range of motion.
    The first day after i stopped playing tennis for a while was that i had a break from tennis for 3 days, then i played again.. When i tried to hit the ball i extended my arm too much, like flattened out my elbow a lot more then its suppose to be to hit with the original style. But then i dont think thats a lost motion, it might of been me being too scared to hit it the normal way because i thought it might hurt.

    And does range of motion mean "avoiding normal motion to avoid pain", or "literally unable to perform normal motion with no thought about pain" ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2008
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  15. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    The shoulder test that I suggested, really only tested range of motion for the shoulder movement known as external (or lateral) rotation. This is a very common rotator problem, but might not be your problem. In my case, I can rotate my right arm (from the straight ahead position) almost 90 degrees. My left arm can only rotate less than 30 degrees -- not much pain unless I try to rotate it very fast, I simply cannot rotate it any further. I also have an issue with shoulder flexion.

    You should try some of the other shoulder articulation tests (2 or 3 of the links have some standard tests). You should check for internal rotation, forward flexion, transverse flexion, extension, abduction, adduction as well as other shoulder movements and articulation combinations.

    Doing some of the various shoulder exercises with hand weights or resistance (cable weights or resistance band), can be a good way to determine exactly which shoulder movements have been compromised. You will find that your right arm cannot do as much weight as your left arm for 1 or more of the exercises shown on the exrx.net site. A few of the exercises can easily be done at home with a jug full of water, a full milk carton or a 5 or 10 lb weight.

    The exercises shown on the various sites can be used for recovery (light weights or no weights) or for building up the 6 muscle groups (4 rotators groups + 2 other shoulder muscles) for each shoulder (with somewhat heavier weights).
     
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  16. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    Oh man i didnt know you injured you're shoulder too.
    Yea i think my injury might be different than yours. When i do that "from the straight ahead position" fast, it doesn't really hurt.
    Ahh shoulder.....a million different injuries from one shoulder :/

    Those exercises really are for recovery, and to keep you're current muscles right. May be ill start doing some minor exercises enough to improve my muscles and avoid messing up the shoulder even more.

    Oh b/w, when i try to rotate my left arm the "from the straight ahead position", if i try to hard, it feels like it will make a cramp. Its just the genes i guess huh?
    Good luck on YOUR recovery, i hope you don't have much things that the injury limits for you.
     
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  17. MTXR

    MTXR Professional

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    Going to the doctor is expensive. Has anyone thought about that and why his dad maybe ignoring it?

    It sounds like a rotator cuff problem, if so and you don't go to the doctor, then my opinion would be to take at least 1-2 months off. I had a subscaplar sprain that put me out for 6 months and 12 physical therapy sessions later to get healed.

    Your shoulder is an important joint and you should be weighing the risk/reward of the situation.
     
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  18. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    only an orthopedic exam and possibly an mri can diagnose what is wrong and appropriate physical therapy or surgery can be prescribed to fix it. all the well meaning advice could cause more harm than good and if a doctor gave wrong advice when he never even examined the patient he would get sued.
     
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  19. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    This is a very good point. Because the human shoulder is capable of such a variety of different types of motions (many more than any of our other joints), it is particularly subject to injury. There are quite a lot of different types of shoulder problems that could account for shoulder pain.

    Since this guy's dad does not seem to be taking the problem seriously, it was my intent to present the OP with some possibilities -- not any definitive diagnoses.
     
    #19
  20. SLow

    SLow New User

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    Playing through pain is never a good idea.

    It is difficult to assess your injury over the internet especially with just words.

    Your best bet would be to go see someone trained in orthopedic assessment. (physio/chrio/massage.. etc). Especially more so since you are aspiring to be a professional tennis player.
     
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  21. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    I think i have insurance or something for going to the doctor. But may be you still have to pay to get pictures taken? Not sure, the household income is pretty natural too.
    What about hitting on the wall? When im hitting it doesnt hurt, does that mean that i should still let it rest? I try to do the half-stance and bend my body to avoid the pain. I never served for 1 month, and i avoid shots that would point out the pain as stretching arm to get a hard ball, or slamming the ball hard.
    Im just wondering... because ive been playing on the wall for a couple of days now, i just cant lose all this that i've worked for you know
    It would be best to go see those...I wanna know the problem.

    I think my problem is with the join though, because serving is the most painful. I have NO IDEA WHY, because serving used to be the easiest to do before i took a break.Now when i serve it hurts a lot( i only did it once though, and half way so i didnt feel much) Is it because i havent done the serving motion for a while, and the shoulder needs to be stretched?
    May be since i took a break for 3-4 weeks, the shoulder got worser? I read something about that on the site that SystemicAnomaly gave me. May be my shoulder was used to stretching all the time since i never took a break before?
    Injuries...:/
     
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  22. MTXR

    MTXR Professional

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    I tweaked my rotator cuff today and it hurts to move my arm, i am taking a minimum of 1-2 weeks off....

    Rest the shoulder.....that means no tennis. Do dynamic stretching with your shoulder though....

    You should probably do some type of resistance exercise after you heal to strengthen and prevent future injury.
     
    #22
  23. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    Urs seems to be a worser injury then mines, i easily move my arm with no pain at all. I cant stop playing tennis.
    Ur gonna take 2 weeks off? Rotator cuff heals in months.
     
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  24. xnarek

    xnarek Rookie

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    I went to the doctors today. I had an appointment, and got my shoulder x-rayed.
    The doctor said that my shoulder blades aren't both perfectly in the same spot. I don't know if its a lot or very little but he said that one of them is not in the right position for whatever reason.
    I need to ice my shoulder for i think 20-30 minutes a day, and after practice. Go to physical therapy. And i need to drink(i think) this thing that is going to fix en up the shoulder.
    He said that my shoulder blades were touching my shoulder and causing the pain.
    Its OK to play tennis about 2-3 times a week. So ill play, but slowly because it does hurt. Ill go back in 4 weeks if it doesn't heal by doing those 3 stuff.
     
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