Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by chess9, Jul 27, 2007.
Don't smoke anything.
Shouldn't that be basic common sense?
By now, it should be, Dave. Sadly, it isn't common, though it makes sense. I've seen lots of lives lost to drugs, which is one reason I don't do them, and rarely drink. With an alky father and brother who did drugs I've seen how low drugs can take the brightest and best.
Marijuna is illigal, and you can go to jail or get in trouble, lose your job, and it's not worth it. If you smoke to much it will make you stupid, and lazy. That being said what a load a crap. Marijuna is no more a GW drug than alchohol, or retlin. It's also no more toxic. If you could pole college graduates between 25-35 and they were honest many would say they smoked pot at least once a month in college, and that's it..... oh wait Zanax made phizer almost a billion dollars last year..... never mind.
and yeah chess9 I understand how you feel. I've had close and distant family members get into drugs and or alchohol problems.
The only problem i see with specious studies are it's like the 20's or 30's film "Reefer Madness" people that want to try it are gonna dismiss it as propoganda, and the people that would never try it get on the band wagon.
It also gives some people an excuse to further look down on teh mentally ill since "they did it to themselves".... ok I'm off my soap box
Please. All that article told me was that there is a very small, but increased, risk of psycosis among pot smokers. There also is if you work at the Post Office does that mean people should stop delivering mail?
I think marijuana is a gateway drug that will lead kids into trying other dangerous drugs. While I don't think of alcohol in this manner, perhaps it is. But the focus of this discussion is on marijuana and not alcohol. Again, I think it's a gateway drug, and regardless if it doesn't directly correlate to mental disorders, it can have dangerous effects.
FWIW, studies have suggested that it's alcohol, not the jane, that's gateway. But, yeah, the only thing you should smoke are brisket and ribs.
ummm, if your talking high school drop out types or kids with pre-existing emotional problems that are already at risk; I agree. But from what I saw in college. I er... knew of many kids that experimented regularly with the Jane. Now they are engineers, doctors, lawyers. And maybe every 5 years if someone has some at a New years eve party or something they may have a taste.
Again, drugs, the legal ones and the illegal ones are bad, poison, toxic to your body. They also tend to permanently change your brain chemistry.
I agree 200% on the brisket and ribs part, yum. Pork ribs the only drug I need
It's been shown that St Louis ribs smoked for hours on hickory and applewood leads to impairment of judgement. Some people have reporting seeing colours, but most likely it was due to sauce getting all over the place.
Other drug studies also show that Kansas City people think Tennesseans are on crack because they use vinegar as their sauce.
Marijuana, alcohol, potato chips, vitamin E....all shown to be not too good for you if used in excess. And none shown to be harmful if used occasionally. The study you cite does not meet any reasonable scientific criteria, being retrospective and pooled data. It merely establishes correlation but not causation, and those of us in psychiatry see this correlation frequently, wherein lonely schizoid characters turn to a variety of drugs to fill the void in their lives. But this certainly does not indicate that the drug is the cause of their psychosis.
But the article suggest there is a study to be released that fullfills the criteria of scientific analyis and makes a connection between the drug and psychosis.
I have no doubt that smoking marijuana is bad for you:
1. You play lousy tennis all toked out;
2. Sex is damned near impossible. (I tried in the '60's, though my experience is admittedly very limited.)
3. Smoking makes you cough. If you trust your body to give you any useful information, I would say this is one useful bit of information.
4. Smoking constricts the blood vessels, which impairs judgment, and makes you stupid.
5. El Diablo says it isn't bad, so it must be horrid. j/k
Stick to cigarettes. There are data suggesting it can help prevent Alzherimer's Disease -- if you live long enough. Makes some sense, actually; receptors for acetylcholine (the neurotransmitter of greatest interest in Alzheimer's) are of muscarinic and nicotinic types.
Correlational studies suck. How do we know that crazy people don't like to smoke more pot? Rather then pot makes you crazy..
It's just like those new 'diet soda" studies - oh diet soda makes you fat! Maybe being fat makes you likely to drink diet soda. <g>
I've never read that diet soda makes you fat. There is strong biological evidence that it makes you more hungry. The reason. You drink the diet soda, and it's sweet so your body says Hey he just ate something sweet start releasing insulin to counter the sugar.... then the sugar never comes, and since you have this extra insulin your blood sugar crashes, and you be come hungry......
And on the pot thing. Safest thing to do, don't smoke-out because like chess said you wouldn't cough if it was good for you(er, vaporizer). If you smoke to much it will make you dump, and lazy. Problem is due to differences in people, and lack of research we have no idea what "Too much" is, so just don't do it.
My only point like chess in the 60's... maybe. Alot of people do pot, drink, and take xanax.... hopefully not at the same time. And have almost no negative effects, and have great lives.
Some are 40 and live in their parents basement. It's not worth the risk.
But research and articles like this are pointless because most people see rigth through them like the previous posters. And if you are someone that deosn't smoke, you still want. If you do smoke you'll dismiss it, since it's basically a waste of paper.
To me if it isn't affecting in you in your responsibilities and you are letting the people down around you then it has become a bad habit.
It is like that for almost any substance on the planet, mind altering or not on. Every single chemical will have a point where it becomes unhealthy.
Is their anything wrong with eating pot?It won't harm your lungs that way so there would be no harmful effects wouldthere?, (compared to alcohal for example)
eating it doesn't do anything. it's fat-soluble so it would have to be melted in butter or something else with a lot of lipids in order for it to be absorbed into your body when you eat it.
if done, there would not be the harmful effects of smoke inhalation, but there would be the "harmful" effects of THC.
that being said, this article is just repeating what some people have been saying for years. Its all circumstantial evidence twisted around.
From the article:
"The researchers said they couldn't prove that marijuana use itself increases the risk of psychosis"
"There could be something else about marijuana users, "like their tendency to use other drugs or certain personality traits, that could be causing the psychoses," Zammit said."
sooooo, they conducted a study and came to the conclusion that people with psychosis have or do smoke pot-- and they completely disregarded all other factors in the peoples' lives, like family history, alcohol abuse, hard drug abuse, and upbringing.... very concise and informative
If Hitler was a stoner and Tojo an opium freak, their biggest crimes would have been a bad case of the munchies.
you want to see a bad drug? go to Louisiana and find a redneck on Jack Daniels or rush limbaugh.
I thought people ate it in the form of brownies?
Even smoking it is maybe not as bad as people think. Mass study including cigarette smokers, pot smokers and non-smokers showed that the smokers were at the most elevated risk for lung cancer and the marijuana and non-smokers were at around the same risk. The study was funded by the Heart and Lung association with the expectation that marijuana smoke would be worse then cigarette, they were shocked by the results.
Researcher's are investigating the possibility that the THC may act as a protective factor against cancer. In mice, malignant tumor sizes were reduced by treating them with THC.
It's not that the smoking is good for you, but a similar effect that we see in red whine. The alcohol in red whine is bad for your heart, but the other chemicals in the red whine counter the bad effect and even provide you with further protection. With marijuana the smoke is bad for you, but the THC counters the bad effect.
Obviously these are preliminary studies for the most part and many replications controlling for different factors must be done. But, just remember in biology, intuition isn't always right.
As for lung effects. Pot has less chemicals/additives/toxins than cigarettes. No one could smoke 20 joints a day for 10-20 years like smokers. And their are more effective ways of injesting, like the use of vaporizers along with pot with higher thc content. You get less impact than playing tennis on a smoggy day.
There's a very fine line because by giving info you don't want it to sound like you are advocating marijuna use. Truth is outside of legitimate medical need,for chemo patients, or glycoma etc no one is better off for smoking pot. Some may look back and say man if I only wasn't so high maybe I could have _blah, blah, whatever. And again if you get caught the consiquences either with your parents or authorities just isn't worth it.
I've come to the realization that you're going to have liars or people with ulterior motives on both sides.
Do people actually have a whole one to themselves or is it more common to share one with several friends. Which would make the comparison to 5 cigs invalid. Not that i would know, just hypothesizing.
i pass on grass, all the time.
Another weed thread...
It's pretty simple. Everyone has an argument of burnout vs. success. Here's how I've honestly found it to work: if they were going nowhere fast, doing nothing, and had nothing to offer BEFORE they smoked, THAT is the reason they stay as such.
Same thing for those who are successful, driven, and ambitious.
I've seen far worse things happen to people who drink. I have yet to watch a friend or acquaintance smoke a little and go crash a car or fall all over themselves or get in a fight for no reason. Oh, they've never puked in my car, either.
Everyone has their nature. Some just like to have a scapegoat for being useless.
Brain damage seems to be something of a problem with marijuana. Study published last year in Archives of General Psychiatry showed a 15% reduction in hippocampus (crucial memory/cognition area) volume in people who smoked several joints a day. The authors plan to look at people who smoke less heavily, but over a longer period of time.
Sure drugs like MJ can harm some people's minds. After all, you shouldn't put rocket fuel in a lawnmower engine.
Now in a rocket engine, it works just fine...
OMG! Now I'm embarrassed. You've revived yet another of my truly insipid threads.
Personally I believe it has some good medicinal benefits though if you value your tennis playing abilities, you should pass. The THC content is not healthy for your lungs and you will loose all motivation except to eat (also not good for your tennis fitness).
Yes, medicinal benefits if you don't mind your brain shrinking at an alarming rate. Look up the article in the Archives of General Psychiatry, I think it was July or August 2008, and kiss your memory neurons goodbye.
what memory? i was born that way so can't blame pot. didn't Reagan have a bad memory too? please don't scare. i still have nightmares from Reefer Madness - the movie.
btw - alcohol is worse for the brain...big dehydrator, not to mention hangovers from excessive consumption.
Alcohol may not be worse for the brain -- small doses actually seem beneficial. Several studies in US, Italy and elsewhere in the last few years suggest one or at the most two drinks a day corresponds to a lower rate of dementia as one ages (mechanism uncertain). More than two drinks a day clearly corresponds to higher rate of dementia.
there was an article about pot and it's positive effects on dementia. don't know about alcohol. however small doses of alcohol reduce tension. several joints a day will keep one in a cloud as well as several drinks a day.
btw - here's an article from last year.
Don't get stoned and play tennis, usually it's more fun hitting the ball in, after a cone or 3, its more fun seeing how far you can hit it.
I find this information completely worthless and silly. It's like using Cirrhosis suffering transients as a control group for the effects of alchohol.
Smoking 5 joints would be like someone drinking a gallon of vodka a day. I don't smoke weed but I think most teenagers are pretty savvy.
Truth is even if it were true and relevant it still wouldn't matter. For most teenagers it's about access and they'll do the drugs that are available if they're gonna do drugs. If not it also doesn't matter.
Worthless? How so? When looking for an effect, one always starts with large doses in research to avoid false negatives, then refine one's study later by seeing whether small doses have other less obvious harmful effects. If alot of marijuana is powerful enough to actually reduce the volume of brain tissue dramatically, it's an issue for subsequent study to see if smaller doses cause damage at, say, the cellular or synaptic level. This seems no less worthless to me than studies that established the harm of cigarettes on the lung for example. There as well, very heavy smokers were the initial subjects of study, then studies looked at the effects of much lower doses. (One such study, published several years back, used isotopically labelled material in the cigarettes to determine that smokers who cut back to as few as 5 cigarettes a day were getting just as much toxins as before, because they smoked each cigarette more avidly.) If you've ever studied statistics, you surely understand the value of looking at large doses first to establish whether there is a robust group effect as opposed to more scattered individual effects.
....and in what sense are most teenagers "savvy"?
i'm contemplating a combination of 5 Hour Energy for focus and energy boost and a few puffs of hooch so I can immediately forget the last point played.
LOL, i have a couple of friends who smoke and pop ecstasy and they great in school AND tennis
4 of my friends who smoke pot 2-3 times a week and pop ecstasy every 2-3 weeks got into berkely, USC, UCLA, and pacific
Any glue sniffer's out there? Alway been curious about what leads a man to glue.
Health effects aside, you would be stupid to ignore the crime that occurs in relation to the trafficking of marijuana. There are three major re-distributors of pot at my High School, which is actually quite low for a suburban U.S. neighborhood, and you would not believe what goes on. Most of them break into houses and steal cars to fund their initial supply and further supplies, all the while maintaining their grades (most of these students are in some AP classes and actually do very well in school) so their parents don't get too suspicious. And, as you often see involved with drug sales, two of the three distributors have created gangs, so we now have gang violence and crime in the middle of a suburban neighborhood.
I hate to think of what must go on at the larger levels, because I know that the distributors from my school are getting their pot from other distributors, not growers. I could not use pot in any way, even if it was just given to me, knowing what goes on to get it to me.
Silly analogy. If you follow the neuroscience literature, particularly concerning brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), the high rate of dementia in people with histories of untreated depression, and the effect of antidepressants in raising BDNF factor levels, you know that it's pretty clear now that antidepressant treatment not only treats the depression but helps prevent dementia in that population. Very different from the effects of marijuana.
I would de-criminalize possesion with a federal law and license and tax sellers.
That being said, I would also mount a very strong anti-drug campaign. I know it sounds cynical, but this approach is probably the only way to exercise even limited control over the drug.
I have a friend who is a Mensa member, something like 175 IQ, and she smoked cigarrettes for a long time. She often asks, rhetorically of course as she's quit, how she could have been so stupid as to smoke. She now has emphysema. What is so sad is that she could have been a very talented distance runner as she has a very high VO2max.
Take care of your body, it's the only toy you were born with.
Too bad the majority of life choice decision-making aren't measured by IQ. She sounds like her EQ is hovering around 90...
"If you could pole college graduates "
I'm totally on board with this.
Absoutely true! I remember a Chess Life article published in the late 1960's on a study of NY Chess Masters. Out of about 200 masters, only about 5 of them had real full time jobs. Anyone who is well outside of the mainstream is probably going to encounter a host of problems. Did you see Susan Boyle, the singer on "Britain's Got Talent"? Here's a woman with a voice like an angel who has been closeted in West Lothian, Scotland (talk about the end of the earth!) and probably heard all those dour Scots tell her how she'd fail. Talent is no substitute for common sense, hard work, and a positive attitude.
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