Smokin' Joe

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Fearsome Forehand, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Died tonight of liver cancer at 67.

    I recall many of his fights particularly the first Ali fight which was probably the most hyped fight in boxing history. Went all the way to the top of the boxing world largely on hard work, tenacity and, as a smallish heavyweight, a willingness to take considerable punishment to get in close enough to deliver his famous left hook. And like most professional fighters, he stayed a little too long at the party.

    Interesting background. Grew up dirt poor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Frazier

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vUuXvAHlLQ (Various Victims of the Frazier's left hook; Ellis, Quarry, Ali, Foster, et al.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyezmRI-7cE (First 3 Rounds of the first Ali Fight)



    RIP Joe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
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  2. Nuke

    Nuke Hall of Fame

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    Down Goes Frazier! Down Goes Frazier! Down Goes Frazier!
     
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  3. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ nice :neutral:

    Heaven knows, but right about now I'm thinking: "Up goes Frazier!....up goes Frazier!"
     
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  4. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Unfortunately for Joe, the Howard Cosell rant is all some will ever know of him. Unlike the Ali fight, the Foreman/Frazier fight was on national TV (ABC), not live, but maybe a week later so everyone saw it. It was a huge upset. The first Ali fight was on closed circuit only and if you weren't at MSG, you had to go to a movie theater and pay the fee ($8?) to see the fight live. Only a very small percentage of the population saw that fight until decades later when it was shown on ESPN Classic and such. One of the few big fights that lived up to the hype even though the hype was immense.

    Funny thing about the Foreman fight, Foreman said he was scared to fight Frazier. Styles make boxing matches. Foreman, whose punches Chuvalo (who fought all the top fighters on his era) once described as like being hit by a Mac truck, said that before that fight, he was rather scared to fight Frazier. What really killed JF in that fight was that the ref allowed GF to push him away every time he made his way in. Technically illegal but the ref did nothing to stop it. JF should have retired after the first Ali fight.

    Boxing is a rough sport where concussions are commonplace. Most of these guys end up "punchy." Frazier seemed to retain his faculties. And unlike many star athletes, you rarely heard anyone say a bad word about him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
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  5. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    "Why old Joe Frazier, they told me you were washed up."

    "They told you all wrong, pretty boy"
     
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  6. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Ali-Frazier was another of those protagonist situations where the press/public seemed to need a good guy and a bad guy, and Frazier for most people seemed to carry the bad guy label. But during the three years when Ali couldn't get a license to fight, Frazier often offered him money and help to keep him afloat.
     
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  7. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    I would not agree that JF was the bad guy. Ali had all the draft dodging-Nation of Islam baggage. He also had the act that was more in line with pro wresting than pro boxing that many people found offensive. As a result, he was hated by a lot of people and had his boxing license yanked for about 3 years. He would have gone to prison for draft evasion but got off on a technicality. On the contrary, Frazier had no such baggage and was simply the honest, non-flashy workman. It was the classic boxer versus slugger match up and perhaps one of the best heavyweight championship fights of all time. I imagine Ali is on his last legs as well, he is about 70 and has had Parkinson's for some time.

    Many of the top heavyweights of that era are gone. Jerry Quarry died about 15 years ago from boxing related brain damage (as did his brother Mike.) Bonavena was murdered at age 33. Ellis is still alive but suffers from brain damage. Chuvalo is still going strong but has suffered incredible family tragedies. Foreman is doing great. A very tough business boxing. Most of these guys end of broke and damaged. Sort of sad to see.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
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  8. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    He did everything he could to get Ali back in boxing and Ali to thank him called him an Uncle Tom. Joe Frasier was a true champion and acted the part. I remember seeing a thing with him training inner city kids and doing everything in his power to keep the kids there and off the streets. He got it and didnt wanna just be famous but to live a good life and help others live it.

    I can still watch his fights and be excited to see them and love when he got inside and hammered guys. His style was great and something I wish would come back to boxing to make heavys fun again.
     
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  9. CCNM

    CCNM Hall of Fame

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    Wow! he was only a year younger than my mom and dad. I hope he rests in peace.
     
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  10. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    A great fighter down....at least he lived long enough...hopefully rests in peace!
     
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  11. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    You know what is truly amazing? Jake Lamotta is still alive. He is 90. :)

    Max Schmeling lived to be 99.
     
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  12. Kevin T

    Kevin T Professional

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    One of, if not the best left hooks in boxing. Good guy and a great champion.
     
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  13. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_kcYMCEgRM

    The thing most people don't remember is that Ali got RIGHT UP.

    I mean, that left hook could have knocked out a horse. But not Ali.
     
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  14. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    Louis-Schmelling another one of those good guy-bad guy things the press played up, but like Ali-Frazier, Schmelling, who became a very successful businessman in Germany after WW2, thought the world of Louis, kept in touch with him, and sent him money for some years.
     
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  15. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Ali was a tough guy. He probably would have been knocked out once; by Henry Cooper around 1963, also a left hook. He was saved by the bell. He got about after about 5 seconds but he had no idea where he was. Cooper CLOCKED him. Clay won on a TKO in 5 rounds.

    Ali had a great chin and was probably the best defensive heavyweight of all time. Liston, a huge puncher, gave up chasing him in their first fight after 6 rounds and took the big payday dive in their second fight. Foreman beat the crap of out Ali's body and he took it until GF was completely out of gas and ready to take a nap.

    I think the only time he was knocked out was against one of his former sparring partners, Larry Holmes around 1980 and he was not in shape and was done as a fighter. He got knocked down once by Chuck Wepner, the Bayonne Bleeder, but Wepner was standing on his foot when he hit him and merely knocked Ali off balance.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
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  16. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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  17. Fearsome Forehand

    Fearsome Forehand Professional

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    Norton maintains Ali's jaw wasn't broken until the last (12th) round and that Ali/Dundee made up the early round break to explain the unexpected loss. Now that was a huge upset. Ali did not take him seriously that was the real problem. No one had heard of Ken Norton prior to that fight.

    Norton was in a horrific car crash in 1986. He is up and around now but very injured still.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2011
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