"So you only play 5.0?"

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Fuji, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. mib

    mib New User

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    Sampras recently (a year or two ago) played an exhibition against Federer and looked very competitive (admittedly on a very fast indoor surface). Still to think that even rusty and older Sampras would lose to any player outside of the top 1000 is far-fetched. In fact, considerably older McEnroe would do very well against top college players.
     
    #51
  2. Joeyg

    Joeyg Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    748
    Location:
    Sarcasm, USA
    Right. He only the made the semis there.
     
    #52
  3. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,479
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    Yes, lol indeed!
     
    #53
  4. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,042
    Location:
    Northern California
    Don't put too much faith in exhibitions. Players are supposed to look good in those. The idea that someone who retired 10 years ago could play a competitive match against the world number 1 is dubious at best.

    That said, I would agree that the list of players outside the ATP tour that could beat Sampras would be very small.
     
    #54
  5. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    613
    Location:
    Chapel Hill
    There was a Tennis Mag article a few years ago where a 4.0 guy took on an accomplished 12 yr old girl and took a beat down.

    Sandbagger!
     
    #55
  6. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Odin, you better check your reading comprehension skills again....
    We're basically saying the SAME thing.
    However, I can't say what you based your answer off of, but my basis is from having 5.5-7.0 women to practice and hit with, while I was still a C player, or 3.5, who made A/Open 3rd rounds by the end of that year. In case you don't understand, that means in April, I played my first C tourney, got to finals and lost. By Oct., went 3 round in Pleasanton's A/Open.
    If you wish, I can list a pretty high level of players who were my practice partners, my g/f's, or my buds, starting when I was a less than 3.5 ...CeciMartinez, a former top 10 ranked US woman's player.
     
    #56
  7. goober

    goober Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Messages:
    8,491
    It was also shown after people tracked down his USTA record he was a rather weak 4.0. If I remember correctly he was a recent bump to 4.0 and was weak in singles (losing to some 3.5s) and decent in doubles.
     
    #57
  8. mib

    mib New User

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2012
    Messages:
    46

    Perhaps, but looking very respectable against the world #1 counts for something even if Federer did not give his full effort.
    Sampras is still quite fit and his serve probably has not declined very much. I would be very surprised if he could not give lower ranked ATP players all they could handle on fast courts.

    In fact, 7 years ago or so I watched a 45ish McEnroe beat clearly frustrated 30-year old Philipoussis, who had only been retired for less than two years at that point.
     
    #58
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Only with superior CONDITIONING does a current top player out of the top 30 beat Sampras or McEnroe. Those old farts just can't last in long matches, and will wilter like a flower in the oven.
     
    #59
  10. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,339
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Didn't Sampras beat YK on clay in Russia for the Davis Cup, or was that someone else he beat. All I remember is the way he collapsed and cramped after winning two singles maches and the doubles.
     
    #60
  11. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    623
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    true. I actually have seen a 4.5 guy beaten 6-0, 6-1 by a 5.0 girl. Yes you read that correct. Granted he may have been a weak 4.5 but if a 5.0 can destroy him like that then what damage would a WTA pro do I can't imagine.
     
    #61
  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    As you all know, not every 4.5 guy plays the same, and not every 5.0 girl does either, whether it's 5.0, 5.5, or higher.
    It's always a question of matchups.
    There are hardly ever a match between men and women where it's a serious match by both players.
    Lots of rules can be involved. In my past, things like "not net play"..."no flat serves into the body",....and of course, "no hard spin serves into the body", where everyday practice rules when practicing with the higher level women.
     
    #62
  13. ctromano

    ctromano Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    191
    i lost once to a 14 year old top junior out in Kentucky... she killed me with depth, spin and consistency. I learned never to doubt myself, have not lost to a 14 year old girl since and I've played at least 5 more in my youth. but i too have lost to a 14 year old girl, I was 18 at the time and she was my sister :)
     
    #63
  14. corbind

    corbind Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,308
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I love this thread ;)
     
    #64
  15. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,691
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    I've re-checked my reading comprehension skills. They are fine :).
    I don't think we're saying quite the same thing. I am saying no 4.5 will take a game from any top 100 WTA woman unless he lucks out and hits 3 aces in a game. You are mentioning "SETS" as a possibility (although remote possibility). I am saying sets are NOT a possibility...ever.
    I am taking it further and also saying that any 14-15 yo girl who has realistic chances of making it to the WTA will mop the floor with any 4.5. The 4.5 will win games, but not sets, unless the kid has a really bad day and is also being "childish" in her choices.
    Any 14-15 yo BOY who has realistic chances of making it to the ATP, will beat 4.5's 12-0, 18-0, 24-0 ...etc in 90 percent of their matches. Again...4.5's with huge serves might get isolated games if they luck out and hit aces. Otherwise...fat chance.

    Nah...I play competitively but still in amateur leagues, similar to the ones you have. Not a sandbagger, just passionate about tennis and more aware about these NTRP ratings and what they mean than many Americans (it seems) ;).
     
    #65
  16. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,691
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    Someone like Kafelnikov, who's only a double major champion, and would have had a couple more French Open's if he wouldn't have run into inspired all time clay great Kuerten.

    He did beat Kafelnikov on clay in the Davis Cup and also at the world team cup, when K was pretty young still.
    Kafelnikov had a problem upstairs against Sampras...ever since their first match in 94 at the Australian Open, when Kafelnikov played a superb match and still lost 9-7 in the 5th.
    I still would have backed K to win 9 out of 10 matches at the French...but they never met on clay after that French Open semi that he won.
     
    #66
  17. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    I agree. I'm a 4.5 and I don't know if I'd take more than a game or two off a female ranked in the top 1000. Lee's example sounds like something from the 80's, before fitness and technology took the game to another level.

    We are having a Women's 10k in town right now. 90% of these girls would plow through any 4.5 men's player I know. Pros are 6.0-7.0 players if they are competitive on tour. Saying a 4.5 can hang with a 6.0+ is assenine. It's like saying a 3.0 can hang with a 4.5.
     
    #67
  18. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,691
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    You are right. Going even further...the difference between a 3.0 and a 4.5 can be overcome in most cases by a few years of serious proper training...even for regular, ordinary people.
    The difference between a 4.5 and a 6.0 +, although it seems similar on the NTRP scale, might take only training in some cases...but in most cases it can't be overcome, because many average Joe's could never get to 6.0 + regardless of the amount of training. At that level the luck you've had with genetics is much more important that it is at 4.5.
    An overweight guy with somewhat lacking athletic ability can hang in 4.5 if he has tennis skills...but that same guy could never overcome his physical limitations when talking about 6.0 + levels. Never...not a chance...no matter how skilled in tennis technique he gets.
    Movement is so important at that level that perfect technique alone doesn't cut it anymore...you need to have been born with no significant athletic limitations, and to have picked up a racquet at a certain age...otherwise...you've missed the boat.
    A guy can pick up a racquet at 30 yo and comfortably get to 4.5 if he puts in the time and effort. The same guy will never get to 6.0 regardless of the time he puts in if he starts at 30.
     
    #68
  19. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    ^^^great points. So, your take us that a 6-0,6-0 beat down from a 6.0 on a 4.5 would be worse than the 6-0,6-0 beat down that 4.5 would put on a 3.0. I would tend to agree. I think some wouldn't, because they truly don't understand what a 6.0 is.
     
    #69
  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I think you guys are all wrong...
    You are presupposing too many generalities.
    You expect every single 4.5 male to play only from the baseline, not use their lefty serves to their best advantage, and not hit heavy slice shots, running the female, instead of trying to outhit the female.
    And you expect every 5.5+ woman to run down every drop shot, to dig out low skidded slices (which they NEVER see playing against other junior girls), and you expect them to hit solid passing shots and lobs against a deep sliced approach (again when they NEVER face against other junior girls).
    Remember, the guys game is different from the girl's game. If the guy plays the girl's game, like stay back, no flat serves or heavy slices into the body, or wide twists that take them both feet off the doubles courts, the girl WILL WIN bagels and breadsticks.
    But once you're allowed to hit drop shots, wide short angles, hard shots into the body, and real first serves, THEN the odd change, .....not saying the guy will win a set, but it certainly get's a lot closer.
     
    #70
  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I don't know about your rules when you played/practiced with 5.5 women, but I NEVER got to hit with them if there weren't rules which limited my game. Now this includes over 7 women rated 5.5 and higher. If I broke the rules, no hit next time, period.
     
    #71
  22. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,411
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    The flaw in your argument is that you are trying to take an outsiders look at the characteristics of the NTRP system and the 4.5 level in particular and extrapolate them to actual results of a hypothetical match with a top 1000 female. This is akin to being a restaurant reviewer who only looks at a menu and the chef's recipes and resume then uses that data to rate his meal.

    The biggest flaw in your argument is that the NTRP system is far from perfect. I can guarantee you that there are current legitimate computer-rated 4.5s in the US who possess 5.0 level skills and are possibly even better than that. So now the argument becomes could a man with 5.0 level skills (or even better) take multiple games or sets from a top 1000 woman? I think it would be easy to find a male in this category who regularly hits monster serves and was a decent returner and match them up with a top 1000 woman who had weak serve and return skills and I don't think the results are predictable at all. Cherry pick a six foot six inch male with a booming serve and match them against the shortest and weakest returning WTA top 1000 female and you are still guaranteeing the female wins with bagels and breadsticks? I'll take a piece of that action any day and twice on Sundays.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
    #72
  23. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    LeeD, I think you just don't really know what a 5.5+ female player plays like anymore. It's not a top 10 NorCal woman from 1975.

    This is a decent D1 player at a major college or a very top player at a mid major. They are fast. They hit big. They serve strong. They play the net. And when things aren't working, they adjust. 6.0+ are the very elite of D1 that travel the circuit all summer and into the fall, probably ranked under 1000 in the WORLD.

    I only give this respect because I've hit with a couple college players. I'm a 4.5 with a .500 ish record in league. I can't consistently take games off a D1 female. That's my perspective in 2012. Catch some Stanford or Cal matches this spring and bounce by a $50k circuit event.
     
    #73
  24. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Funny you should mention that.... I watched for about an hour, the Cal matches at Hellman this past Sunday.
    But once again, YOU don't have a Open level serve. I did.
    YOU didn't try to WIN against the woman, you only played your baseline game, which a 5.5 woman is far superior at over a 4.5 man. The man has to play a MAN'S game against the woman, not HER game against her.
    You didn't dropshot and shortangle her constantly. YOU didn't hit into her body, come to net, and vary your approach half/low volleys.
    You played baseline tennis, didn't you?
     
    #74
  25. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    ^^^the few times we played points, I struggled to even get to the net. It's easy to say "go to the net" and altogether different to do it successfully when you are at such a skill differential. They may be girls, but they are near world class athletes.

    Do you think a 40 year old male runner (former hs track star) can beat a college female sprinter in their event?
     
    #75
  26. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Your last question first. Elite women run what at the 100? Maybe 10.8 seconds? The elite men run in the higher 9's.
    I think there are some 40 year old men who can run in the high 10's, yes. Not every single 40 year old male, but the ones who still have some snap left in their legs.
    Yes, it's hard to get to net on THEIR serves. On yours, it should be 80% and pretty easy, if you have a serve! Now if you push the ball in at 90 mph, top/slice it only to one spot, where they can step in, turn, and hit it, you cannot, and I cannot, successfully get to net.
    On their serves, you have to play the short angles, the wide angles, the drop shot/lob combos, and play almost ANYTHING but baseline topspin tennis. You play the baseline topspin game if you're good at it, or if you want to sacrifice a few points hoping for an opening, but once that opening..their errors..happen and it get's to ad yours, you play MY game, not yours.
    My game is all net play when I serve. You can pass me clean 3 times on my serve, and the game is not over until I make 2 stupid mistakes. S/V is all about forgetting your opponent's lucky winners, mishits, or your own stupid shots (which I can do pretty regularly), but to play the overall percentages....and that percentage is, an athletic GUY can outquick a trained woman.
    He cannot hope to outhit that woman. He might overpower her on a FEW shots, but they have to be on his choosing. Play her game, it's bagels and breadsticks very quickly. Play the all court man's game, it can come down to who executes the big shots at the right time.
    Playing a top level woman is more like playing an accomplished counter puncher man than anything else. You do get beat on a few points, but overall, you beat yourself by allowing her to move you around.
    Don't allow it, move her first, and move her often.
     
    #76
  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Oh, one of my hitting partners, once a month, in 1978, was TomBrown. He was a counterpuncher/pusher, much better than any 6.0 woman of the time.
     
    #77
  28. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    So, with all this "knowledge" of the game, how are you not a touring pro's coach? Way better life than sanding walls!
     
    #78
  29. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    515
    The only way I can see a 4.5 taking games/set/match/whatever off a "pro female" is if they can just manhandle the girl. That's the only way I can take games off the college girls that I know. They're not exactly 5.5's, but I can see it scaling the same way.

    You are not going to junk ball them, out consistency them, or out fitness them. That I know for sure. lol.

    If you want to have any chance at all, you're going to have to basically manhandle them and beat them with pure power and getting the "good end" of the statistics more often than not.

    You're going to need aces.
    You're going to have to force bad returns.
    You're going to have to blast winners off their serve.
    You're going to have to pass them if they come in.
    You're going to have to pound corners hard, very hard.

    There is no way I can see a 4.5 winning against a pro lady any other way besides raw power and "risky" placement and shot selection.
     
    #79
  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Should we apply some HISTORY here?
    BobbyRiggs, an old man, out of shape, down 2 full levels from when he was a 7.0, beat a current pro woman.
    BobbyRiggs, an older man, more out of shape, almost hung in with BillieJeanKing, a 7.0 woman with all court skills.
    Now, can a 4.5 man with some skills, and some power, and some smartness/tactics, get 3 games off a college playing Div1 woman?
    Comes down to.... WHICH 4.5 man, and which 5.5 woman.
     
    #80
  31. EP1998

    EP1998 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    548
    I assume you didnt mean that the way it sounded. Peruanos do play tennis and some play quite well. There are even some in the top 50 ITF!
     
    #81
  32. EP1998

    EP1998 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    548

    When did you play the Peruvian guy, I think that might have been the brother of a friend of mine!
     
    #82
  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    If you want the exact year, I"m stumped.
    Musta been '06 possibly '05. Really nice kid, he'd come down with his parents who spoke only Spanish, play a few sets of doubles with the 4-4.5 crowd, usually win 70% of the points, and maintain an enthusiastic demeanor the whole time.
    I got stuck playing him because that day, only 2 4.0's showed up, the rest old farts, so rather than play with a old fart, we played singles, excluding the other 4.0, who had very little pace or serves, but a great retriever.
     
    #83
  34. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,591
    Haha you guys are so interesting.

    Just wanted to let you know, I watched a University woman player hit this afternoon, she serves at the same speed I do, with way better placement. She's easily 5.5+ as that's the standard requirement for the team. Just letting you guys know, I doubt I could take a game off her, let alone a set. :razz:

    -Fuji
     
    #84
  35. 0d1n

    0d1n Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,691
    Location:
    Cluj-Napoca, Romania
    Look man, I'm not talking about people who "trick the system" but even so...even 5.0's ...they're still not close to pro women. They would get more games than 4.5's but still no sets.
    Also...if there are 5.5 + players playing as computer rated 4.5's ... then everybody involved with NTRP rating and/or organizing tournaments around there is an idiot, because the difference between 5.5+ and 4.5 is a quantum leap, and anybody worth their salt when it comes to tennis knowledge would need exactly 15 minutes to tell that one of those guys doesn't belong in 4.5 leagues.
    Anyway I'm not going to argue with cherry picking a sandbagger with huge serves and big returns and pick the weakest possible server on the wta...what would the result be...bla bla...but I will say this :
    If you take the top 500 wta and the top 500 ranked 4.5's in the USA, and match them either 1 with 1, 2 with 2...etc OR randomly...no 4.5 will get more than 2 games per set. None...no way...no how.
    Also ... LeeD, your history lessons are boring. We are talking about the present and you keep bringing up your lefty serve from 1965. Let me tell you this...I've seen your video serve...and I believe you it was much bigger 30 years ago. However...IF you actually trained with pro or close to pro women (and that's a big if), the restrictions imposed upon you as a hitting partner have nothing to do with "fear of getting beat" and have everything to do with whatever the coach felt the girl needed to train. That's the role of hitting partners...to train whatever the "pro" needs. Now...could we stick to this century please ???
     
    #85
  36. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    Lee doesn't recognize that tennis skills and strategy exist in a post 1970s world. It's so funny to hear the comparisons he brings up. It's like he's stuck on a shroom trip from Woodstock and can't snap out of it.
     
    #86
  37. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Problem here is that I can only go by past experience with several top level women players, while you guys can recall one or two instances of current top level women players.
    Do you think the old player'd DIDN'T have strategy or tactics? Nothing has change in the women's game from then. It was always about flat with a little topspin, deep shots into baseline corners, very consistent play compared to equal rated men, weak serves, little net play (you will quote Stosur or someone like that, but they are exceptions and there are, to every rule).
    IF you 4.5's can play net, hit short angled volleys, IF you 4.5's have a serve out wide to typical 2hbh backhands, IF you guys can serve into the body to move the returner BACK, then serve short wide, you'd have a much better chance to win a few games.
    IF u 4.5's stay at the baseline, hit topspin hard shots, are rightie and serve top/slice serves all day, YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO WIN ANY GAMES, against a woman rated one who unit ahead of you.
    As for whether or not I have actually been practice partners? Well, imagine this. I was 27 by the time I got decent at tennis, drove a BuickSkylark 442, surfed for over 10 years, skied for over 4, what do you think my chances were then?
    Think for youself.
     
    #87
  38. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    ^^^I love so much about this post. Classic!
     
    #88
  39. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Yeah, and you don't seem to remember that a person needs to learn from history, because if you don't, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.
    Even today, a rising 4.5 with some strokes, lefty, net player, can still give problems to 5.5 women. They cannot beat 6.5 women, for sure.
     
    #89
  40. Rafa4Ever

    Rafa4Ever Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    362
    lol, you guys have no idea. Any top junior or even a decent one would decimate a 5.0. We go through so much training and are sick of hearing old men talk about how they are a 5.0 and must be super good. If you are actually good you don't need some number to say so. Go and play matches at an open level and see how you do. I don't care how you were 30 years ago, guess what?, you're old now and you CANT do that anymore so it doesn't matter. You are probably putting whatever memory you had of yourself on steroids as well. So please when it comes to Junior players and how we talk about the adult 5.0 super gods please just don't event comment.
     
    #90
  41. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,591
    Funny, quite a few of the juniors I hit with have the same mentality! :razz: (Hence the point of this thread!)

    -Fuji
     
    #91
  42. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    515
    There are also a lot of juniors who overestimate their skill and have no chance in open. You might be "top ranked" in your state but that certainly doesnt mean you will clean house in an open. Most juniors dont have the temperament to survive in the open class too. Your typical 5.0 is not going to be an "old man" either.
     
    #92
  43. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,089
    as I believe I mentioned, most of the open tournaments I play in are chock full of 'top juniors'

    It is a different level for them after Junior tournaments, though, and they seldom make it past the second or third rounds.

    Fortunately, most of them are expecting this, although we do get the odd superhero who thinks he is going to dominate all the 'old men' on account of all the 'training' he does.

    (because an adult open player NEVER practices or anything, obviously, what with being old and stuff.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
    #93
  44. corbind

    corbind Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,308
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Rafa's post was harsh. Your humor helped. :)

    (floridatennis dude...do you dislike LeeD or just not happy with his talk in this thread? I like reading both of your typical posts)
     
    #94
  45. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,723
    Location:
    shiran
    Kafelnikov did better against prime Kuerten than Fender against the hip-busted Kuerten.
     
    #95
  46. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    I love post 90. So should you all.
    There ya go, we're doomed to repeat the mistakes of our elders....
     
    #96
  47. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,411
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    [​IMG]
     
    #97
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,283
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    We all love post 90, don't we?
    Glass houses, pointing fingers, the whole shebang.
     
    #98
  49. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    Oversized racquets, polyester strings, strength training, etc. Our point is the game has evolved so dramatically since the 70s that there is a reason the game no longer looks like in the days of Borg and McEnroe.

    It's easy to say "serve and volley" against a D1 female. Pretty tough to do in 2012 when the ball will be coming back as hard as it was served with more spin. That's where your whole theory breaks down and renders your strategies useless.
     
    #99
  50. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,723
    Location:
    shiran
    Back when I was in a barber shop quartet with JelenaSukova in Skokie, IL...
     

Share This Page