social responsibility - when is it ok to look the other way?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by stanton warrior, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    It's a polarizing topic, but one I've been thinking a lot in the last few weeks.

    If you see someone in need a few feet away on the street it's obviously wrong to just walk away.

    But at what distance is it alright to just mind your own business and not help?
    Is it 100 feet, 1000 feet, 10 miles, or 1000 miles?

    Let's not kid ourselves, the world we live in is really, really ****ed up. Not everything is bad, but there's a lot of stuff going on that's frankly inacceptable if we're honest to ourselves.

    It starts with destruction of the environment and ends with small children that have to fight wars and prostitute themselves for a few dollars.

    Those things happen thousands of times, every single day.
    We know it happens but yet most of us don't really do anything about it.

    Sure, we (I include myself) have their own problems, but even when we have time and money to spare we mostly think about what to buy next, where we could spend holidays, and so on.

    Is there any justification to buy a flatscreen instead of (for example) supporting a project against child-prostitution in brasil?
    Are we obligated to help as long as we can keep a decent living standard, or should we just not give a ****?
     
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  2. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I'm not sure how far away I am from you right now, but I'm IN NEED of hot little blonde this evening.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    In fact 2 would be even better.
     
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  3. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    I'm SO glad I don't see the world like you do.

    Nothing against a passionate night with a beautiful woman, but if it's not an honest one-night stand or with the woman you love, it's not worth it. At least as far as I'm concerned.

    You should be happy that there's no karma.
     
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  4. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Ya, fine.

    But can you help me out or not?
     
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  5. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    I don't think anyone can.
     
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  6. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    Good question. This sets up a slippery slope where discussing the distance becomes irrelevant. One can also turn this around. Just because a panhandler is nearby, doesn't give them a greater demand on our money.

    I've checked out an audio book from the library, The Rational Optimist. I think it's good in that it allows us to see how much better we live nowadays than in ancient times. We tend to take things for granted, so we are upset by bad things because we assume bad things shouldn't even happen at all. I'm guessing you might accept the idea that when we had nearly zero technology thousands of years ago, that all was well? I don't mean to encourage complacency, but actually things are improving, not only materially, but even the environment is getting better through technology. Cars pollute much less now. I'd expect environmental damage to decrease in the future through more knowledge gained, instead of through a "back to nature" retreat.

    It's a matter of priorities. First take care of yourself. I don't mean to say that you should be selfish, but that you should be responsible. So you should have a job and be paying your own bills, not stealing, filing bankruptcy or living off your family. Protesters who try to save the world while sponging off others have their priorities backwards, IMO.

    Some good things about buying the flat screen TV are: you're helping a business that decided the way to prosper was to offer you something you want, the trouble with giving to charities is you're enabling people who think the way to solve their economic problems is to explain their troubles to someone else and hope they just give them something. I know that might sound like a rationalization to many for not being generous with charities. Unfortunately, my increased awareness of the nature of charities has made me question their motives and effectiveness. Personally, I'm bothered with any executive at a charity who makes more than $250,000 a year. Where's HIS generosity?

    If you feel in a generous mood, there's nothing wrong with that. I'd just say that in that case give an extra big tip to a good waitress. There's no middleman, and you're giving the money to someone who's at least trying to work.
     
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  7. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Haha, well played, r2.

    People aren't obligated to spend their money helping kids in Brazil. It's their money, so if they want a flatscreen, they can buy a flatscreen with their hardearned cash.
     
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  8. ronalditop

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    Well in my case, if I see baby kittens or kittens that arent big enough to be able to stand up for themselves close to my house, I grab them, feed them and later send them to a veterinary I know where they feed them and keep them in a big cage with other kittens so people can adopt them for free. Right now I'm taking care of four kittens I found on a park about two blocks of my house. This time I dont wanna take them to the vet because they found a good place there where they are safe, so I just bring them food and water and keep and eye on them.
     
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  9. IwishIwasbetter

    IwishIwasbetter Rookie

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    you may be interested in the following:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDbFTsCByf4


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhFrZ4-nxa4


    to the op, this is something i've been thinking about. i mean is it really okay to get that new ps3 when a child is dying every six seconds from starvation? people dont want to look at the bigger picture. they are so stuck in their own little world and care about their small problems when in reality there are people who don't have food, access to clean water, etc, and the amount of these people increases every day. The gap between poor and rich is increasing. i don't get how people are focused on getting brand name clothing or a superexpensive car when things like this are going on. i guess its how you said people aren't honest with themselves
     
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  10. Steady Eddy

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    As they say on wikipedia, citation needed. Nowadays the average poor family spends $180/mo on media: cable TV, cell phones, etc. A middle class family spends $240/mo. Thirty five years ago, these services didn't even exist.

    During that time China's economy has exploded and India has improved too. Poverty still exists in the world, but economic growth seems to be the cure more guilt and foreign aid. I know many say, "Gee, I didn't know that", but it seems that if one is really sincere about ameliorating poverty, one would investigate it a bit, and not just assume, "not enough charity".
     
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  11. Manus Domini

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    OP, I think it is subjective. If it is a fight, don't ever get involved; you could just make it worse. If it is suicide or child prostitution, get involved ASAP. It is subjective, so give us an example :)

    weren't you the person who said we had to avoid the evils of this world through reading? Kinda hypocritical if you ask me, your opinion is really not worth anything it seems...
     
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  12. stanton warrior

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    Who's "we"?

    People that can afford playing tennis and spend their time on this forum?

    Or the ones that live with 5$ a day?
    Do you know how the life in the slums, which are exapanding at a fast rate all over the world, is?

    Yes cars pollute less, but there are many times more cars now on the road. Just look at China, India and other developing nations.
    The ocean, probably our most important ressource, is more ****ed up than ever. Almost all of the rain forests will be gone in 2 decades as well.

    Of course you need to take care of yourself and your family first. But that's a matter of definition.

    Do you need to spend that extra 10k for the new car, do you need to spend the extra for the 4* hotel?

    Just because some charities aren't legitimate doesn't mean none of them are. Even if 20% go to waste, isn't the more extreme the case if you buy a ipod that is thrown away after 3 years?

    I'm always tipping, but that's something completely different.
     
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  13. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    I'm in my mid 20s and I've walked and looked away long enough.

    Whenever I see a guy treating a woman badly I'm no longer keeping my mouth shut.
    It could've ended badly more than once, but in the end I realized that being a coward hurts me more than getting hit in the face by a guy half a feet taller than me. Pain goes away, bruises heal.

    And yes I'll be spending a considerable sum for a project against child prostitution. But finding the right project isn't easy, especially if you have a lot of other things going on in your life. But the money isn't going anywhere else.
     
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  14. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    A hot blonde would only be evil if you were stupid enough to marry her.....but nobody would be that dumb.

    Unless of course you are already married. Then you might have a lot of explaining to do.......and that money that you had earmarked for the eradication of child prostitution would be going elsewhere........
     
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  15. El Diablo

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    "there's a lot of stuff going on that's frankly inacceptable" (sic). To whom? Should Americans rail against development of Brazilian rainforests while driving SUVs? Shall we tell Brazilians that we have no problem having 18 year old prostitutes in some jurisdictions of our own country but we cannot accept your 14 year old prostitutes? How far is too far? Beyond your own culture. What the past 10 years have taught me, since 9/11/2001, is that every culture has its own unique concept of what is acceptable or unacceptable, and aside from having our own culture there to be observed in the various media, we should try to avoid meddling and learn to be more tolerant of those differences. Do you need to look the other way. No. Look all you want, but respect the fact that your standards are not necessarily the standards of other cultures.
     
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  16. Manus Domini

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    I mean fight between guys with a fight. Obviously, if a man is mistreating a woman I will (and have) get in the middle. Well, the have is a guy trying to attack my friends, but still. Women are to be treated with respect

    After college, I want to take a year off to go help poor people around the world doing missionary work. We are SO lucky it isn't even funny. I forget what movie it was, but it convinced me (though about events hundreds of years ago) to want to help the natives in the Amazon who are mistreated and subject of racial hatred.
     
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  17. Manus Domini

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    It is adultery. Lust is one of the seven deadly sins. I'm sure a learned scholar such as yourself would know that...
     
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  18. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    There's a big difference between the 18-year old western-european that sells her body for the newest prada handbag and the 8 year child that is forced to do it to feed her familiy. Believe me I've read enough about the topic, it's like night and day.

    Also, this is mostly about personal standards, and not about cultural ones.
     
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  19. Manus Domini

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    So we should all be relatavists then? No absolute truths? I am against all forms of prostitution, but especially those who are too young to have a say. Just because one culture views terrorism as good does not mean that terrorism is actually good.
     
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  20. El Diablo

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    Yes, the difference is that most western families can eat without resorting to such practices. When you don't have food to eat, you have to adjust your standards. What do you suggest for those families that have no other way to avoid starvation? That's your moral/cultural imperialism.
     
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  21. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    The sad thing is how many look away, I don't see a lot of moral courage these days.

    I've experienced it myself. Even after I once intervened when a mountain of a guy mistreated a 15-16 year verbally in the most severe way none of the 20 people around us bothered helping. If not for a lot of luck I wouldn't have walked away unhurt.

    I like the idea of taking a year off for a project like that, you'll definately grow as a person. Good luck with it.
     
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  22. stanton warrior

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    To make your daugher of 8-10 years (let's not talk around it) f*ck with a dozen grown men a day is not a standard!

    It's not about what those families with no means, no hope, and no possibilites can do. They try to stay alive for the next few days, and nothing else. Drug addictions are often also a reason/problem, but who can blame them?

    It's about what we, sitting in our cozy livingroom, can do.
     
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  23. El Diablo

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    I'll bite. A family in Brazil is starving and prostitutes a small child to avoid death. Not a happy situation obviously. What can you do about it? What ARE you doing about it other than making value judgements about how they keep alive?
     
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  24. Steady Eddy

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    By "we" I mean it's part of the human condition to take things for granted.

    Let's agree that life is unacceptable in slums around the world. Then our conversation is about 'mean's and not 'ends'. About ends, eliminating poverty, we agree. Is the way to decrease poverty through giving? That is, do we need steep income tax rates so that prosperous people's money is taken by governments to be handed over to poor nations governments in the hope that they'll provide assistance to their people instead of buying arms?

    In my view, that's been tried and has mostly been a failure. Just as poor people in the U.S. need the skills to earn more instead of more programs, poor countries need on economic infrastructure instead of some global welfare program being set up.

    I'm recalling a famine in Niger about 5 years ago. One of their own economists said that the problem was that the country only got better at finding out how to apply for aid, instead of improving their agriculture system. That makes sense, behaviorists point out that sometimes our efforts have unintended consequences. The 'let's redistribute' idea is intuitively appealing, but where has it really been a success?

    If someone can do no more than look after himself, at least he's accomplishing that, and has no reason to feel guilty.

    I'm not too into cars or 4* hotels, but that's just me. If those things provide the incentive for someone else to work hard to afford them, that's their business.

    The issue with charities goes deeper than simply waste. For example, when Oprah Winfrey gave away new cars to her audience, (people deemed needy), what do they take away from that? Live beyond your means and Oprah (or some fairy godmother type person) will appear and make your problems go away? Marx pointed out that some have greater needs, surely, but why? Isn't it often some combination of: neglecting their skills training (goofing off in school), overspending, and a lack of family planning? If bailouts are the result of ignoring consequences, how will this ever get better?

    Tipping is a different matter, but I'm tight with charities and generous with tips. I think I get money to more deserving people that way.
     
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  25. Manus Domini

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    Most western families? Do you mean the richy rich? I don't see any of their daughters on the streets. Do you mean the middle class? I see just as many of their daughters. Or do you mean the poor, who can barely pay for their room and board? I see their daughters on the streets.

    Yes, you need to adjust your standards, but prostitution is one of the worst ways to make a living. There is no honor, nothing to be proud of. It is merely satisfying the lust of others. A drug dealer is far better to become, far less ignoble.
     
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  26. Manus Domini

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    Yeah well verbal harrasment is the last problem on my mind. 'Tis a problem, but no severity in comparison to child prostitution, murder, etc. Have you heard of the story of the Chicago kid killed in 1994 (I believe) at age 5? I would love to see that stopped. No matter who says they have a different culture and should be treated differently, the murder of a child is heinous.
     
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  27. stanton warrior

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    I'll be donating 20k $ for a project that takes those kids of the streets and gives them basic education.
    Believe me, I had other plans with that, I always wanted a Ducati. But the more I think about it the more it seems wrong, on so many levels. What difference does it make whetever I ride a bike? Not much.
    What difference does it make if I can get just one kid of the streets?

    I really have to go to bed now. I'll be replying to rest of you tomorrow.
     
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  28. El Diablo

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    "prostitution is one of the worst ways to make a living"....thanks for sharing, but we're talking about what people will do to avoid starvation. I'm not going to sit here in my comfortable well heated home with a well stocked pantry and chastise people who resort to desperate means to avoid starvation. (And yes, prostitution doesn't afford the "honor" of being a bond trader, divorce lawyer, car salesman.......)
     
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  29. Manus Domini

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    Are the father and mother working? Are her brothers working too? What of her sisters, are they working?
     
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  30. Manus Domini

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    Prostitution is one of those trades in which you lose your soul; that is far greater in the path of perdition than forfeiting of life. If you are so comfortable, why aren't you making yourself slightly less comfortable to save another family?
     
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  31. jmverdugo

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    First most people that "help" do it for their own peace of mind not really caring about the "good" they are making but just because they want to be "good" people. With this in mind, most of the things we do to help people is what "WE" think is the best for them and this is one of the biggest mistakes of human kind. A perfect example is the Catholic Church wanting to "save" the non catholic people and like this you will find many examples through out the history and of course nowdays.

    Second, most of the troubles we have is because of our own fault if we have someone bailing us out of trouble we will never learn, this is why one must be very careful when deciding to jump in to a situation, uninvited, to help. People needs to solve their own problems, people need to learn, whenever you are about to "help" somebody, think if you are doing it to make YOU feel better or to make YOU feel superior or to make YOU feel good, most of the time you will find that is better just to walk away and be the silent helper.

    Of course I am not talking about cases of child prostitution where most likely you have a violent abduction and brutal enforcing to use drugs and other stuff. What can we do in this case? well there is not much you can do ... you can give money to whatever society you want but that won't make much of a difference, it could make you fell better though.

    The reason of all these calamities is the poverty and corruption in the countries where this happens, obviously it happens everywhere but more in some countries. In this case I think it is up to the local people to make their country a better place. People need to start thinking, need new leaders, you can attack the top of the problem but it will continue to happen as long as the bases of the society remain on the ignorance in which - most of the time - they choose to be. What is the result of a big country trying to help a little country? most of the time nothing good, again people need to solve their own problems. Obviously this is a slow process, but it is happening.

    What we can do?, IMO, lead by example, work within your range of action - you can change your range of action too - help your community, help yourself, help your enviroment, help your family, people will notice this and without you having to say a word they will start to do it. JMO.
     
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  32. El Diablo

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    Why are you assuming I don't?? My wife and I contribute to many charities, including several scholarship funds. And spare me the garbage about losing your soul. People who set out to do harm to and/or rip-off others imperil their souls. I suspect most prostitutes have no desire to harm anyone.
     
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  33. Manus Domini

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    It is committing and succumbing to the seven deadly sins. Read Job, my friend. That is a way to live, always by God.

    By the way, you do know that 80 cents on the dollar is actually used fraudulently by many charities, so donations to charities help far less than missionary work...
     
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  34. Sentinel

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    stanton

    if you feel like donating or helping out someone personally go ahead and do it. don't wonder and ponder about it, worse still ask people on this forum for their views.

    Some people here are quick to judge others and call others hypocrites without looking at themselves.

    I have poverty and suffering all around me (in India), i cannot help each person, i still do my bit. I don't care what others think, and there'll be always someone sitting on his fat *** (at home) passing judgment on what i am doing and what i should be doing.

    my 2cents is that you do not have to solve all the world's ill. If you do your bit to help others that's great. If you do not cause suffering to others that's wonderful, too.

    I've spent many years trying to help a few people who were addictive or suicidal, only to find that they don't want to leave their habits.

    My aunt used to buy blankets for the poor and they would immediately sell them for smack.

    It's great that you have such thoughts, btw. It's great that you (and others here) help others.
     
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  35. stanton warrior

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    Don't get me wrong, I'm not religious at all. I know that being an *******, if you do it right, pays off more often that not.

    What many don't realize is that the good living standard most here have is not god given, it's because other bleed for us. It's pure luck that we have been born as whom we are.

    The problems I speak of are not about people making mistakes they could learn from. It's about consequences of political corruption, long term effects of imperialism and things like that.
    Those situations aren't going to get better by themselves.

    It's not about making oneself feel superior. I made enough mistakes myself and I won't talk with people about my donations.

    But If I ever have children, how could I explain them that I never really gave a **** about anything that didn't affect me or me family directly? Because that's what living your life with tunnel vision is.

    Just take a look at your home. Basically everyting is connected to environmental destruction, unhuman laborwork, animal cruelty and other unpleasent stuff. By not doing anything against it, you're supporting it.

    I'm not pointing fingers at all, I just hope to get people thinking.
     
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  36. antgun007

    antgun007 Rookie

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    I don't see this as a matter of how many feet away you are from a bad situation in need of help, it is a matter of willpower and beliefs. I believe it is the person inside of us that can change this world. You could have one person just walk by a homeless man in need and another who stops and offers some cash. for me, I see it has good karma. in a way that makes me feel better but mostly makes me feel that by giving to someone in need it will eventually come back to me. if it is something I need help with or that I'm in a bad situation. I feel that because of all the "help" I have provided in my life, that things will work out. A lot of people don't bother to help out in our world because they believe it only hurts themselves and ultimately it doesn't have an affect on them. I knew people who didn't have a care in the world about the 9/11 attacks because they felt it didn't have an affect on them when in fact, it completely changed the world we know from the economy to the way we go about our daily business. a little off topic with this, but it all comes back to willpower and the effort to do something about a bad situation. My mom has always taught me that I should always give help whenever and wherever possible because it will all come back to me. I have to say, so far, my life has been great and I have no complaints living my life the way I do. so no matter how many feet between you and that person who needs help, if you have the time and resources, go out and do something, cause you never know when you might be the next one to need help.
     
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  37. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    I really like your point of view.

    Eventhough I don't really believe in karma. The reason is that I feel like it would mean that the people suffering do deservingly so, and that people that are very fortunate have all earned their luck.
     
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  38. Dilettante

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    You obviously don't know what are you talking about.
     
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  39. fRa

    fRa Rookie

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    Very interesting topic...
    From a legal stand point, most countries have instituted a duty to rescue which, if violated, constitutes a crime. I'm not sure of the specific conditions but I think judges would look into what circumstances such a duty must be performed and at which point it is reasonable to just walk. I find that this is what it boils down to i.e the circumstance in which it becomes necessary to intervene and when it isn't. It seems that this “social responsibility” you mentioned would have us intervene at all times, for any happening. Although, it is easy to agree with the concept of a transcendent idea of solidarity, it is hardly the most practical path to take. 4 armed-men mug an innocent pedestrian, threatening his life with sharp knives and what not : in our guts, we all just want to run over there and somehow rescue the victim and yet, we just stand there. I would agree that this could translate a kind of “devolution” where men are governed by cowardice and fear, all of which being the result of our secluded, wealthy consumerist lifestyles. But all in all, it can also express the natural reaction of self-preservation. It is absurd to expose ourselves to unnecessary danger. Unnecessary : first of all because the other is not me and second, because I can choose to walk away. There's nothing wrong with this. Sure it is cowardly but it also is natural and it is far from the ethical sphere you have chosen to place it in. You might then say, “we are perhaps more than just nature itself, we are more than animals, we have a conscience”. I suppose that it's the unbarring idea of “evil” or wrong (the conscience) that leads an individual to act upon such a situation but reality is a substantial amount of random events, it's fate. And fate has no moral code, it has no ethic, it has no consideration of what is wrong and what is right. It's just a tragic coincidence that the unfortunate pedestrian happened to be on that sidewalk when criminals decided to strike. It's a wonderful coincidence that the big bang ever “banged”. Just walk away but by doing so, call the cops. I suppose that isn't so bad?

    [​IMG]

    The standard occidental idea is that we are the plague of the world, we are the colonialist, we are the moral disaster of the 2nd WW, we are the cause of global warming, we are the cause of all that is wrong in the world. It's almost become a pathology : the occident is a masochist that is lashes itself intentionally, attributing to itself all the evil deeds that ever occurred. This is probably less true in the US since it is more preoccupied by maintaining global hegemony than caring about people's problems (unless of course, these problems are actually their problems) but it is true in Europe. The perfect example is terrorism : Europe never seems to harshly condemn it but it in fact tries to justify it by it's past behavior. This evidently leads to some sort of inaction : nothing is done because nothing is to be done. We must repent. I abhor this kind of behavior but I think is explained by the fact Europe is slowly realizing that it is no longer the supremacy it used to be hence why it finds reasons to still uphold a certain status even if it means being a global perpetrator.

    I find that Jean Paul Sartre's idea of human reality more optimistic and realistic. He considers a human being as a being that is “for itself” - it is not what it is and it is what it is not. This firstly means that essence does not precede existence. Existence gives shape to essence and it is the choices we make that bound us to who we are. Sartre says that “we are condemned to be free” in the sense that our freedom of choice, of being what we are, comes with the barring of responsibility that these choices imply. When I make a decision, I make it accordingly to what I think is “right” or “best”. Here, I find myself thorn between the idea of fate, of randomness that I argued in the first part, and Sartre's way of thought, that I find is also true. In my opinion, the answer lies somewhere in between the two but perhaps more towards Sartre's side.

    [​IMG]
     
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  40. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

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    ^^^Tight Post.
     
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  41. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    Your example is way over the top. How often do you see 4 armed-men robbing someone? Maybe once a life, maybe twice, depending on where you live.
    I wouldn't throw myself in the line of fire either, and that never was my point.
    I know you didn't mean it that way, but it feels a bit like you're saying "if you can't save everyone, don't bother at all".

    Some things are clearly out of our control and we have to watch or walk away, but that's the exception. My problem is how often I see people looking the other way even when they have the possiblity to help without risking their life.

    It's time to face it, we ARE the plague of the world.
    Again, it doesn't mean there's no good in humanity, but we are destroying our planet like no species ever has. And we are commiting atrocities that make even "cruel mother nature" seem endearing.

    The part about losing influence isn't exactly news, isn't it.
    It's been the case for Europe for a while, and the same is happening for the United States, probably at an even faster rate.

    I have to admit that I didn't knew Sartre before, but I like his ideas.
     
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  42. albino smurf

    albino smurf Professional

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    anybody posting on a tennis board has probably got a little extra money and time. Do something positive with it or don't. Your outrage and social awareness should come when you look at the amount of money squandered by the ruling class. The average person anywhere in the world can only affect those directly around them, which is good and you should, but there are a lot of billionaires out there that throw away hundreds of thousands on extravagant and decadent lifestyles every year. Some rich oil sheik can burn the earnings of every member of this boards lifetime earnings in one year on champagne, travel and decadent crap and never notice at all.
     
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  43. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    I dunno why I was talking about ignoble stuff there, my point of view is the same though. I would rather a starving family deal drugs than selling their daughter to slavery. In comparison to selling an 8 year to prostitution or slavery is one of the worst things I can think of. Drug addicts can be cured, but emotional scarring to the child can never be healed.
     
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  44. dParis

    dParis Hall of Fame

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    OP, just get off this forum, leave your material possessions behind and join the Peace Corps or join a Mission. You'll be providing real help directly to those who need it. I'm sure your help would not be turned down. Take a few years to really experience "the poor" and you will better be able to determine how your monetary donation can be used to provide meaningful, effective assistance. Nothing is more valuable than your time and hard work.

    Instead of getting on this forum and basically whining about our "indifference", go where the help is needed and help. Bring your computer with you and report back to this forum your experiences and petition members for their help. I'm serious. Wouldn't that be far more effective than whatever it is you are doing here, now?

    Can't all be healed through The Lord? :confused:
     
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  45. fRa

    fRa Rookie

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    The army? Seriously? That's the last place I'd go to help anyone.
     
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  46. dParis

    dParis Hall of Fame

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    I didn't realize the Peace Corps was a branch of The Army. They aren't there shooting people anyhow. Maybe you should study up on the PC a little.

    So where would you go to help someone, mister?
     
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  47. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    How would Sartre solve this conundrum? Should the OP give money to a worthy cause? Join the Peace Corps? Buy a Ducati? How should he decide?

    Sartre addressed this specifically in his long narrative about a young man deciding if he should join.....I believe it was the French resistance movement or stay home and take care of his mother, etc.

    ^^I wasn't going to mention the part about the Peace Corps being part of the army dParis. I wanted to hear this kid paraphrase some more Sartre.

    By the way, the answer (for Sartre anyway) is that he would take my advice and find himself a hot......probably brunette. And that you can bank on. Just ask Simone de Beauvoir. She'll tell ya.

    Then he would probably write a scathing piece in Libération.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
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  48. fRa

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    I don't think Sartre's example of the french resistance was as relevant to its object than to it's signification. I'm sure you know that the exemple itself was given to demonstrate how one could solve a moral dilemna. In fine, after having showed Kant's unsuccessful attempt for a solution, he states that one's conduct must be based on the preservation of another liberty (I've read this in french, so the translation is approximate).

    (I might add that comparing the fact of joining the french resistance and that of joining any contemporary army is outrageous).

    Even though Sartre did find some sado-masochist type of relationship with Simone de Beauvoir, he didn't just settle for "a" (single) brunette. His philosophy did lead him to maintain a very open relationship with the said lady, having numerous other ladies to go by. Sartre was a living paradox, there's no "what Sartre would have done" and I find that his life has lived up to his philosophy especially to his concept of the "for itself".
     
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  49. fRa

    fRa Rookie

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    Haha, I'm sorry about that. I do realize I misread, I got caught up with the "Corps" instead of "Peace corps" and started thinking about the Marines and ended up simplifying with "the Army".
     
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  50. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    But how do you decide which one? You have myriad choices, all with merit. Choosing one precludes choosing the others (basically). Which one do you choose and what guides your choice? How do you know?

    Yes, he shows that the "categorical imperative" is useless in these situations. What did Sartre say?

    Take the OP. Let's say he has gone to University, earned his degree, and *should* now go out and find a good job with that degree. After all, his parents probably sacrificed for many years so he could go to school and have this opportunity. Wouldn't running off in some idealistic attempt to "do good" be hurting his parents? They probably want him to get a good job, find a wife, have a family. Can't he always just contribute a few dollars?

    On the other hand, isn't it selfish and immoral to simply pursue personal success and not care about his fellow man who is going hungry / enslaved in prostitution / etc.

    So, which way should he choose? How does he know? What helps guide his choice? Both options are "good". Both have merit. Abandoning one or the other is going to "hurt" someone.

    So, what does Sartre say?
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
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