Solution to Federer's pathetic performance

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by sureshs, Jun 8, 2008.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    Ball machine.

    That is right. Get the highest-end ball machine and program it to pitch the ball with spin, pace and trajectory resembling Nadal. If there is no such machine, pay a robotics company to develop one.

    And practise, practise, practise. No one else can match the forehand to backhand lefty topspin of Nadal. Ball machine is the best bet.

    To match Nadal's retrieving capabilities program the machine to pitch the next ball around the time Nadal would return the shot. And keep doing this over and over again.

    Get rid of Higueras and spend the money on a ball machine. What Federer lacks is not strategy, but simply the ability to be consistent with the ball (no shanking) when pressurized by Nadal. Otherwise Nadal just says "Shank you very much" and pockets the point.
     
    #1
  2. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    14,074
    LMAO.Roger did do alot of shanking.Some of those errors where really silly.His serve was also a big letdown.
     
    #2
  3. BlahDow

    BlahDow Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    233
    lol..well at least he'd be able to beat Nadal...dunno how it would effect his game against other people =P
     
    #3
  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    Dare we raise the issue of a bigger racquet now? Or will the small-headed racquet folks shut us up?
     
    #4
  5. grizzly4life

    grizzly4life Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Messages:
    1,057
    seems like playing nadal on clay is like playing against a wall, without the spin of course.

    bigger racquet head for sure. it's time!
     
    #5
  6. Morrissey

    Morrissey Guest

    Dude, give it up. It just ain't gonna happen.
     
    #6
  7. loner1984

    loner1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I work in a retail store where we use a Playmate ball machine mounted on a riser and can be programmed using a bluetooth PC. I have a saved program on there called "Rafa's Claycourt Ball" with a 60 mph. lefty topspin drive bouncing up about 8 feet high. A certain aspiring pro that is currently playing futures events comes in there every so often to hit against it.

    Fed should stop by.
     
    #7
  8. Pancho

    Pancho Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    633
    Federer's balls do not clear the net as high as Nadal. Nadals; ball clears the net over 6 feet consistently. Federer's is only an average of 3 feet. Nadal is playing high percentage tennis, Federer is not. Federer will never beat Nadal in French Open if he continues to play like that. In order for Federer to win, he needs to hit with the same massive Topspin that Nadal has. The reason why Nadal win on clay is because of his massive topspin that throws all players off. Not even Djokovic can handle Nadal's topspin.
     
    #8
  9. alienhamster

    alienhamster Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,658
    He would shank a lot less if he would just hit some well-placed slices more often. He goes for topspin shots off the backhand side that he really just shouldn't.

    He's running around his backhand WAY too much, too. He doesn't have the ability to cover the open court like other clay courters do (Nadal, Moya). If he'd just be more patient and use the slice backhand as a rally shot, he'll eventually get a shot he can spank and/or come to net on.

    As for the forehand shanks . . . again, that's unusual for him. Sometimes he was just out of position and rushing. I was most struck by how many forehands he hit into the net today.
     
    #9
  10. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Interesting thread.

    I think that sophisticated ball machines are the future, except that they won't be ball machines but virtual reality tennis games that will simulate the experience of playing a particular opponent.

    You can quote me on this 40 years from now.
     
    #10
  11. Belmonte13

    Belmonte13 New User

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    pittsburgh, pa
    completely agree. this is an absurd thread....nadal refuses to lose.
     
    #11
  12. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    4,670
    Federer's forehand myth is a joke. Nadal's forehand is the real deal. Beware of the "Fearhand". :)
     
    #12
  13. loner1984

    loner1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Now that we're on the topic of ball machines, this particular machine we have at the store can actually be made to rise up about 21 ft. and serve down a blistering 130 mph flat bomb down the T. I have a program called "Boom-boom Becker serve" that does exactly that. I wanted to name it the "Roddick Super Serve" but the machine can't go faster than 130 mph, so I really can't replicate Roddick's serve.
     
    #13
  14. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    I pointed out before that he was doing this all the time at the FO. Starting late, and rushing to the ball. He was not recovering as well as other players do. The story of Fed having a great defense is a myth. What happens is that he makes a couple of spectacular shots with the ball behind him and on the run and everyone applauds. They forget the many more occasions when he just stands in one position and then rushes to the ball in the open court, and misses it.
     
    #14
  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    From your name, the future is already here?

    Table tennis players use ball machines a good deal. Tennis pros need to tap into the potential, beyond the use in their junior years thru a coach.
     
    #15
  16. ACE of Hearts

    ACE of Hearts G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2005
    Messages:
    14,074
    Federer is not as great a mover as Nadal on clay.How u expect him to cover the court?On grass he moves like a dancer compared to clay.
     
    #16
  17. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    No, it's from where I came.:)

    Tennis is behind technologically. Very much behind.

    Baseball already has virtual reality apparati. Pitchers, for example, simulate throwing the ball with a special video game to work on their windup.

    There is much less money in tennis than there is in some of the other big sports.
     
    #17
  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    Why don't you and I start a company (with Fed's investment of course)? We can build ball machines and serving robots with software to emulate any player on demand.
     
    #18
  19. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    I don't know if you are joking, but if not, why 21 feet? How does that help in simulating a real serve?
     
    #19
  20. loner1984

    loner1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Very true. I believe that increasing use of technology to improve stroke production and even strategy will become more and more integral to a player's evolution.

    Here at the store we use a video analysis tool called "Dartfish" that captures a player's strokes and has the capability to re-play in super-slo motion. It's pretty neat.

    I can only imagine about 20 years from now what other aids can be used to improve our games.
     
    #20
  21. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    Dartfish is also used at Vic Braden centers, I think.
     
    #21
  22. taffymoon

    taffymoon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Toronto
    Roger needs a really good shrink.
     
    #22
  23. CyBorg

    CyBorg Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,544
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Someone will do this, but tennis is too global a sport without a real national centre. It's losing its grip on the American audience as well, and all the big dough is in America.

    This is an interesting idea though. I work with cyber technologies, but I haven't dabbled in virtual reality. Maybe some day.
     
    #23
  24. loner1984

    loner1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The riser can lift the ball machine up to that height to simulate the different trajectory of people's serves. I'm assuming people like Karlovic or Isner strike the ball at the apex of their serves around that height. However you can reduce this height at the flick of a switch.

    I swear I'm not a sales rep for this company (I'm just a racquet technician at the store) but this is really the coolest machine I've worked with. Here's a link. http://www.playmatetennismachines.com/grand_slam.htm
     
    #24
  25. loner1984

    loner1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Okay, maybe 21 feet is a little bit of a stretch. But when the machine is up there it seems to be that high.
     
    #25
  26. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    Probably 11 or 12 feet.
     
    #26
  27. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Messages:
    30,261
    Location:
    Orlando FL
    No one is going to beat a healthy Nadal on clay.
     
    #27
  28. Stchamps

    Stchamps Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    329
    Yea Nadal's forehand is definitely better on clay, but on lower bouncing surfaces like grass and hard court those massive topspin shots just bounce right into player's sweet spots.
     
    #28
  29. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916
    For once someone doesn't come up with a retarded idea. I like it actually.
     
    #29
  30. VictorS.

    VictorS. Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,227
    You know, James Blake came back from injury & illness (broken neck, shingles, etc) with an improved backhand. In fact, his backhand, which he often hits aggressively on the rise has given Nadal some fits in the past.

    Of course, playing on clay against Nadal is a totally different ballgame than on any other surface. However, given the fact that Brian Barker has been criticized often by the press...wouldn't it be ironic if Federer sought advice from him regarding playing Nadal?
     
    #30
  31. Mr. Ding

    Mr. Ding New User

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4
    Federer needs a long vacation, that was a horrendous beating.
     
    #31
  32. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,154
    Location:
    Connecticut
    wanna solution on clay?

    ONE WORD, well actually three
    Pro Tour 630
    the small 85-90 is dead on clay
     
    #32
  33. taffymoon

    taffymoon Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Toronto
    i cannot wait until wimbledon!
     
    #33
  34. D.  Nelson

    D. Nelson Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    687
    ....a lot of good opinions here (for a NICE change!!) :

    ....I think that might have been THE B E S T match 'I' have ever seen Nadal play (strategy/serving/hustle/low error count !!)....EVER !!! Too bad it was against Fed...he didn't have MUCH more of a chance than anybody ELSE would have !!! I'd say that Fed spent fully 85% of the time 'stuck' in his backhand corner...and Nadal seemed content to PUT him there...on E V E R Y point....amazing !!! by the way...from what I saw of Nadal today, 'I' give him a H U G E chance at Wimby !!

    ....that ball machine idea is NOT a bad idea....or multiple hitting partners on court at the same time....hitting multi-ball patterns; with the next shot coming before Roger can fully recover.....that's one good drill....also...starting a point FROM the bh corner...aGAINST those multiple hitters....to simulate how Nadal really DID blanket the court.....all DAY today !!
     
    #34
  35. Political Thunder

    Political Thunder Rookie

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    136
    Take out his his frustration with a hot swedish model.
     
    #35
  36. crazytennis

    crazytennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    437
    Is this the supposedly "World;s greatest ball machine?" where you can feature your favourite players' playing style ?
    I watched a commercial for that thing.
     
    #36
  37. quest01

    quest01 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,616
    If Federer played the way he did against Nadal at the French, Nadal would be the favorite to win Wimbledon. The way Federer played today was an embarrassment to everyone associated with the game of Tennis. Don't get me wrong Nadal had something to do with Federer not playing as well but he was making an ungodly amount of unforced errors especially on his backhand side with all the shanking he committed.
     
    #37
  38. loner1984

    loner1984 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2005
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    It's possible with a lot of tweaking and tinkering.
     
    #38
  39. Pinnacle Powerserver

    Pinnacle Powerserver Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    Back in the Andy Richter days, Max did a video of him having sex with himself, funniest thing i've seen ever hahaha
     
    #39
  40. Morrissey

    Morrissey Guest

    Wow! I thought I've heard it all until today. Can they make the ball machine hit on the run too?
     
    #40
  41. Pinnacle Powerserver

    Pinnacle Powerserver Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    i think the military will be at your doorstep before federer lol
     
    #41
  42. Carlyn Blair

    Carlyn Blair New User

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4
    Roger's defeat explained

    Today it was sad, Roger Federer had a bad day at Roland Garros, this guy at tenniscruz seems to have the explanation: In Roland Garros - Roger Federer Fell Victim to his Lack of Respect for Jose Higueras!

    http://tenniscruz.com/content/view/267/90/
     
    #42
  43. samster

    samster Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,017
    I agree that Higueras didn't have enough time to work with Federer and fully implement his ideas to Roger. Roger just seemed confused out there at times, without any clear strategy/strategies.

    But give credit to Nadal. Nobody could have beaten him today. Could the match be more competitive? Probably.
     
    #43
  44. RoddickistheMan

    RoddickistheMan Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,068
    that wouldn't be a bad idea. Im sure he has the money to do it as well. It is a little nutty. Also why not just get a bigger frame. 95 or a 98 wouldnt be completely illogical.
     
    #44
  45. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    4,427
    seriously, Nadal is just a bad match for Federer.
    There is no simple solution to Federer.

    Federer historically loses to the grinders who make few unforced errors. Fed's strategy is to attack so that his opponent will make a lot of errors. So if his opponent does not break down under his attack, then Fed will make a lot of unforced errors and lose the match. This were so against Nalbandian, Canas and Andy Murray and especially so against Nadal on clay.
     
    #45
  46. morten

    morten Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,351
    Slice more on the backhand, attack the net on a more consistant basis IMO!
     
    #46
  47. Strobe Lights

    Strobe Lights Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    551
    The problem was that Federer had a mental, emotional and psychological breakdown after 3 years of being so dominant yet being dominated by one man on one surface. In MC and Hamburg he showed that (on his worst surface) he could dominate Nadal (who might become the best claycourter ever) for patches and therefore, while he was always going to lose, the manner of it was because he finally didn't believe he could win and just collapsed. Sad to see.
     
    #47
  48. aceroberts13

    aceroberts13 Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,029
    Location:
    100 Miles Away; Ready to Strike
    It does seem a bit silly to me, but switching to a bigger frame might help him a little. His game planning will still need work but that backhand will have a little more room for error and a little more pop. Pistol Pete was wanting to switch to a bigger frame for the french so maybe it could help Fed a little too. Even with that though, I don't think Fed will ever have Nadal's number on clay.
     
    #48
  49. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,660
    It can hit back the ball as if it did. If not with one machine, we should go with 2 machines, networked and synchronized, one on the FH, other on BH.

    Now that is a real good idea
     
    #49
  50. IvanYentl

    IvanYentl Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Thanks Coach
     
    #50

Share This Page