Some high points in career winning percentages, open era

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Benhur, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    These calculations were done to find out at which point in these players careers they reached their respective highest cumulative career percentages. They are done at year end because otherwise it would take way too long.

    Connors was still above 85% at the end of 1984, but his highest point seems to be the end of 1982. On the other hand, McEnroe’s career percentage was a bit higher at the end of 1985 than at the end 1984, which at first I found surprising. Also a bit surprising was that Federer's percentage has continued to rise with respect to what it was at the end of his best period.

    Connors (through 1982) 859-138: 86.16
    Lendl (through 1989) 851-144: 85.53
    McEnroe (through 1985) 644-109: 85.52
    Borg (through 1981) 605-112: 84.38
    Nadal (current) 595-123: 82.87
    Federer (current) 888-201: 81.54
     
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  2. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Benhur, Thanks. This confirms that Federer is not (almost) invincible...
     
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  3. NadalDramaQueen

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    If you look at the full statistics you will see that Fed's winning percentage at his best was very high.

    For example, Nadal has never hit the highs that Fed has, but he hit the ground running, so to speak, so has the better percentage.

    Don't be so simplistic, Bobby.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  4. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    You're a petty man taking a dig at Federer instead of praising greats like Lendl and Connors. Federer had 3 consecutive seasons with over 90% win percentage. He was nigh invincible at his peak. He has the highest win percentage on grass and hardcourt ever.
     
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  5. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NDQ, Federer's winning percentage was very high when the competition was not the best one.

    It was not me who brought the list of percentages. It's not simplistic.
     
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  6. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    his winning % from 2003 when he got really good-now is sick
    anyway some stats from wikipedia, not up to date for 2013 but still

    • Federer is the first male to achieve 84.6% ratio of Grand Slam finals reached after making it to more than 10 semifinals (22 finals/26 semi-finals), this is between 2003 Wimbledon Championships and 2010 US Open. He has since made it to 24 Grand Slam finals from 32 semi-finals giving him a career ratio of 75%. From the 2004 Australian Open to the 2009 US Open he had a ratio of 87% (20 finals/23 semi-finals).
    • Federer is currently the only male player to have winning percentage over 85% in three Grand-Slam tournaments (all except French Open). Only Federer and Rafael Nadal have winning percentage over 80% in all the four Grand-Slam tournaments.
    • Federer is the only male to achieve winning percentage of 95% in Grand-Slam tournaments in three different seasons (2004, 2006 and 2007).
    • As of 2012 US Open, Federer's match record in Grand Slam tournaments is 247–37, giving him an 87.0 winning percentage, being third behind Borg (89.8) and Nadal (87.7)

    tons more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Roger_Federer
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  7. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NaturallyFederer, What is wrong to read statistics provided by other posters??? It's only a serious reaction to those who praise Federer more than it is reasonable.

    If you Federer fanatics would not worship Federer to such an exaggerated extent, I would not be enticed to give a contra...

    I don't have an agenda against Federer, but some Fed fans have an agenda against me...
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  8. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Poor you, no one I've seen converse with you worships Federer (except maybe TMF). Most recognise his talent and achievements. The fact you don't is the reason why you have a distorted view of his fans. They tell you the facts and you're too stubborn to accept it.

    You can ofcourse read statistics, the fact that you only single out Federer to mention and that in a negative manner is all the evidence anyone needs for your agenda.
     
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  9. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    Give it a rest Bobby, you're the only one interested in denigrating players. Sometimes, if you have nothing positive to say, say nothing at all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  10. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    This.

    10char.
     
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  11. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Since the year of the first slam win (2003 for Fed, 2005 for Nadal) actually Fed has the better winning percentage compared to the 2nd best player of the era, Nadal.

    Federer
    2003 78-17 82.11%
    2004 74-6 92.50%
    2005 81-4 95.29%
    2006 92-5 94.85%
    2007 68-9 88.31%
    2008 66-15 81.48%
    2009 61-12 83.56%
    2010 65-13 83.33%
    2011 64-12 84.21%
    2012 71-12 85.54%
    Average 87.12%

    Nadal
    yet to win a slam title
    yet to win a slam title
    79-10 88.76%
    59-12 83.10%
    70-15 82.35%
    82-11 88.17%
    66-14 82.50%
    71-10 87.65%
    69-15 82.14%
    42-6 87.50%
    Average 85.27%


    2012 winning percentage says hi. :) 85+% is pretty damn high by whoever standards you choose and that is Fed in twilight years (turned pro in 1998) vs the 5 years younger rivals all in their prime.

    I should give myself for medal for not cursing out or insulting, trying to hold back.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  12. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    2012 is really unfair to include for Nadal too seeing as he played his best part of the season and skipped the rest...
     
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  13. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    valid point...but humble me, wanted to throw the guy a bone. Love me some Capy Rafa.
     
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  14. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for calculating these stats, brilliant stuff!

    Further evidence that Connors is underrated by many here. As I've said before, I would have him 3rd of all-time behind Laver and Federer. Many people disagree I know, but the above is one reason among many as to why I put him 3rd.
     
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  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NaturallyFederer, I DON'T have an anti-Federer agenda, but you and your Fed colleagues have an agenda against me...

    It's my right to put Federer (and the former GOAT, Sampras) in the correct perspective, at least according to my opinion. That's all I try to do. It could be at the most that I'm wrong with my Federer consideration but that's NOT identic with an "agenda" which needs an intention. Hope I was able to explain it...

    You are right: I'm a rather poor man: got not too many "Euros".
     
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  16. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NDQ with the agenda against me: I'm not only allowed to praise a given player (even though you Federer fanatics have blamed me for praising Rosewall) but also to criticize a given player (f.i. Federer) in case he is overrated by many people. Imagine a poster would rank Karlovic as an alltime top ten player. Would not you contradict and tried to show that Ivo is not???
     
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  18. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Forza, You are right: there is a Federer army here.

    You are wrong: I do have still many hairs...
     
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  19. NadalDramaQueen

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    Not if the thread had nothing to do with discussing Ivo's greatness where my agenda to hate on Ivo would fit right in. :)

    By the way, there is a reason that not everyone rates Ivo that high but they do rate Federer so highly. Perhaps you should open your mind just a bit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  20. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    hahaha well congrats, I do think this is the first time I actually laughed at a humorous post of yours.
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    With the paramilitary federer armed forces out here, Switzerland doesn´t really need a regular army.
     
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  22. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Forza, Thanks that you try to not insult me. In this forum one needs good nerves...

    Your Federer list confirms me: In his best years Federer had weaker competition. Thank you!!

    By the way, Federer needed 55 GS tournaments to win 17 of them. That's excellent, but surely not great. Tilden, f.i. won 10 out of 23.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  23. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    #23
  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Now, back into stuff, guys.It is completely unbelievable the % Connors had.Playing so many years atop, going into 1985 ( 33 yrs old¡¡) and still at 85% or so, it is a tribute to him.I think his time was the most competitive ever or, at least, one of the most competitive.There were great champs but also a solid ground, with many US players you don´t see anymore.Yet Jimbo was capable of such a %.wow¡¡¡ that alone should place him among the truly greats, not mentioning how enjoyable was seeing him play like a demon.
     
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  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Thanks, Forza.

    I should have added:...many hairs even though I'm a stupid old man, as a poster called me recently...
     
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  26. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, One also could call the Fed armada the "Swiss Guard of the Pope" as their members are as absolutely and rigidly thinking as the pope is...
     
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  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I like the pure sexi stuff and so on.There´s no need to enhance his wife, that goes beyond pure servilism...
     
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  28. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    If you look closely at the stats, older Federer puts amazing winning percentage even amongst his 5 year younger rivals.

    how big were the fields during the time period of this lovely sweater and long pants wearing mister?
    [​IMG]
    compared to this man's fields?
    [​IMG]
     
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  29. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    see the golden eagle thread...if you dare. :shock:
     
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  30. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    You don't hate on a man's wife.
     
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  31. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    hahahha.Greta post.They even have one poli party, their ideology is called nationalfedererism.
     
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  32. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I never did.I just thought there is something wrong with that.I like Laver but I won´t post about his wife (R.I.P Mary)
     
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  33. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Thanks. As one poster wrote: SPAM...
     
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  34. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    I know, it is just that some of the younger folks (who I assume are unmarried) in the general pro player discussion like to go that route.

    You've just taken the first step to joining the BOTE. :)
     
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  35. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Greatest poetry I've ever seen in my life going on in that thread. Bobby, them Lindts are just....i don't even want to describe them....so good
     
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  36. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    you mean the overly zealous Nadal brigade? No need to be shy, we know who they are. LOL
     
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  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, teens can be very unbearable.it´s not that loooooong I was one of them.BTw, I don´t know her but it speaks very well, IMO, of Federer that he´s close to her and their babies, seems an all right fellow.

    I also admire Nadal´s girlfriend, Cisca.How can she stand all that buttpicking?
     
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  38. World Beater

    World Beater Hall of Fame

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    You have every right to denigrate federer's competition, and place him in the "correct persepctive" , as you say...

    But you need to understand that is not a popular opinion and you will be chastised for it. So do not be surprised if your opinions are criticized and even ridiculed. Don't act like the victim when you are the one who provokes by denigrating great players.

    as you have done in this thread

    Also, what some may think as a correct perspective may be characterized by you as federer worshipping. But once again more often than not that is not a popular opinion.

    The majority can be wrong, but often they are right most of the times.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
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  39. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    appreciate the effort OP.
    too bad the thread has turned into another ******* contest.
     
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  40. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    Yes, that’s pretty much how I feel too, even if at the time I found Connors too much of a professional jerk to like him. But ther IS something quite unique about him, and related to the fact that at the age of 32-33 he still had an 85+ career winning percentage. He is almost in his own category in this respect. And the fact that in his career he was dealing with 3 other guys who are also in the top 4 in this same category, makes the whole thing even more impressive. Nobody else in the open era can really be compared to these 4 in this kind of consistency, especially in the 90s.
     
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  41. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    This is really not about Federer and Nadal. Their presence in the list is partly to put the other 4 in perspective in this particular category, especially Connors. Nor is it about whimsical cut-off dates like "first slam" or first communion, which have nothing to do with career percentages.
     
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  42. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Without crunching all the numbers I can only guess, but maybe this is happening in both McEnroe and Federer's case because even these declining years (1985 for Mac, 2008-present for Federer) have better win-loss records than the earliest years (1977-78 for Mac, 1998-2002 for Federer).

    Interesting to have that pointed out, though: how a year in a player's decline period can still raise the overall average.

    Some similar argument has been made about Borg. It's commonly said that Borg's overall percentage would have dropped if he had continued playing full seasons beyond '81. But his career percentage would have continued to rise (or at least not begun falling), so long as any full seasons he played in '82 and '83 were better years than the first few years of his career (1972-75). He might have begun declining in '82 and '83 but that doesn't mean at all that his career percentage would have begun dropping.
     
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  43. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    not that surprising ... all of them except federer had very good starts to their careers ...

    federer from 98-2002 : 158-93 (63%)
    from 2003 onwards : 730-108 (87.1%)

    mac's career % being higher at 85 rather than in 84 is a result of his 85 being better than his 77-78 ....
     
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  44. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    federer at his peak from 2004-07 won 11 of the 16 slams ...
     
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  45. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, great competition;-)
    Bagdhatis,Gonzalez,Roddick,old Agassi,Philippousis,Coria,Davidhenko
    Except Nadal on clay....
     
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  46. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Get a clue:
    Kodes 73 W competition: Borg, Connors, Nastase and Amritraj among others
    Fed: Roddick, Old fart Andre, Coria,Nalbandian,Bagdhatis,Scud,Canas,Gonzalez from chile
    Just Nadal and Safin were a real challenge
    See the difference?
     
    #46
  47. Benhur

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    Hi Krosero, I think that simply beating one's own percentage in the early years would generally not be enough.
    The true determining factor is whether the percentage during any given new year (or month or whatever we use) is still higher than the cumulative record as it stood at the start of that year or month. In 1985 Mac went 71-9 (88.75%). His cumulative record at the start of that year was 573-100 (85.14%), so when you add the 1985 record, it brings the total to 644-109 (85.52%), up a few tenths of a percent. But it would have gone down if his 1985 record had been for example 82% (even though this might still be significantly higher than his early years).

    By the way (and this comment is addressed to poster forzamilan), calculating cumulative percentages in a given period by averaging yearly percentages, happens to work ok in that particular case shown in one of his posts, but it can also give very flawed results in others, as it assigns the same weight to every single year with no regard to the number of matches played. With that method, a player that has a 4-0 record one year and 20-20 the next year, would seem to have a 75% winning percentage over those two years, which is absurd. That method should never be used.
     
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  48. Benhur

    Benhur Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Moose.
     
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  49. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    The individual % are fine, but then you averaged the % instead of averaring the total win-loss.

    The results aren't that far off, but Federer comes out at 87.27% instead, and Nadal at 85.26%.

    I know, I'm a *******. Can't help it :D
     
    #49
  50. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Cool, thanks for pointing that out
     
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