Speed Stringing

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by easterngrip, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. easterngrip

    easterngrip New User

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    Does anybody know how to use the the free time the tension head is pulling to do manual work and to speed up the stringing process?
    Is the secret to speed stringing to do things really fast or not to waste time in unnecessary body motions?
    What you think?

    Easterngrip
     
    #1
  2. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I assume you are talking about an electronic tension head. When stringing the mains you could weave the next main. When stringing the crosses you can start to move your clamp. The clamp on the side your going to clamp is not being used to hold the last tensioned string anyway.

    The secret to speed stringing is to do it as fast as possible and quality is of no concern. You don't want any miss weaves though or knot that come untied.
     
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  3. easterngrip

    easterngrip New User

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    Thanks Irvin for your thoughts.
    Do you think pre-stretching and pre-weaving the strings speed up the stringing process?
     
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  4. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Pre-stretching could if you remove coil memory. You may prevent tangles that way. Pre-weaving will speed up the process.
     
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  5. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    One technique, I noticed is holding the end of the string while pulling the slack. That way you are not always trying to find the end of the string. I've seen some hold the end in thier mouths.
     
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  6. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    I suggest doing this (your hand, not necessarily in your mouth (unless it is tasty beef gut)) whether you are "speed stringing" or not.
     
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  7. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    there is already a thread just made about a week ago. scroll further down the page. check it out
     
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  8. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    There is an old saying (well, maybe not that old): a fast stringer is a loose stringer.
    Speed stringers like the NEOS, but when you 'yank the crank' rather than pulling slowly, the tension drop is much larger.

    The way to pick up time is to eliminate wasted movements, which , I think is what you are really asking.
    Tournament stringers are amazingly fast, but they don't need to be concerned with how the racquet plays in thee weeks, either.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
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  9. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    i think the tournament stringers are on a different level
     
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  10. easterngrip

    easterngrip New User

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    Zapvor, what skills you think tournament stringers have that we, ordinary stringers, do not have?
     
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  11. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    High end machines and a lot of practice.
     
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  12. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    Indeed, they are.
    No wasted movements, excellent fine motor skills, and great stamina.
     
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  13. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    We need a special utility belt to hold the end of the string.
     
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  14. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    let me say this. i used to string maybe 200 a year. this summer got busy and i did over 1300 in 5months. by doing that much in that short time 2 things happened:
    1-i forced myself to get efficient
    2-just through mere repetition i found myself getting faster.

    so for those tournament stringers who have done easily 10000 i think along the way they figured out stuff that we have not

    in fact i surprised myself. before this year my avg was about 25min. just the other day i casually timed myself for fun, and finished in under 16min. and i was going fairly casual.
     
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  15. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    exactly. the stamina is staggering.

    try stand for 8hrs and just string non stop for a day, then come back and tell me how your day was
     
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  16. stringwalla

    stringwalla Rookie

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    Thanks for the understanding/empathy zap.

    Try 12-14hr days for 3 weeks straight. Granted, the real crush is Sat/Sun/Mon early qualies and Sat/Sun/Mon before main draw. But you're on site, ready to go for whatever is required to get sticks in hand for practice/play.

    In the heyday of my retail world, I've strung as many as 50+ in a day and 220+ in a week.

    But nothing kicks my rump like a Grand Slam when I'm only doing 15-35/day, because it's mostly full poly, a lot of pre-stretching non-poly, stenciling, bagging, to extreme pressure for perfection. It takes it's toll for sure.

    I can teach a "home stringer" to pull off an equivalent quality string job in the end. But I can't teach them to do a less than 15 minute, mistake free, "on court" job.
    That takes multiple levels of talent.

    I've always expressed that there are a lot of "fast" stringers and a lot of "great" stringers out there. But very few "great and fast".

    Kind of like how very few smoking hot and brilliant women are represented in the population. OK, maybe I should not have gone there, but I did;-)
     
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  17. easterngrip

    easterngrip New User

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    Stringwalla:
    Can you share with us the secrets of being a great and fast stringer?
    Is there an specific set of biomechanical skills that a stringer has to develop in order to do a sub 15 minutes on-court stringjob?
    What about using the time the machine is pulling to do manual work?
    Does it really help the stringer to string faster?
     
    #17
  18. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    butting in here if you dont mind-keep stringing and you will start to learn all the little things. its not just about the time when machine is pulling.
     
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  19. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    yep yep!

    i can do a sub 15min job on the spot for anyone walking in the door. do i get to be great and fast? :p
     
    #19
  20. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    I recall a line from the movie, Marrying Man. A guy fixing a flat tire (the old intertube type) says, "Do you want it done fast? or do you want it to last?"

    nuf said
     
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  21. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Consistency

    Consistency is the name of the game, whether you are fast or slow, if you are not consistent you are not worth a set of prince tournament nylon! :)

    In my opinion if you can produce consistent string jobs over and over, you are a very successful stringer.
     
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  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Consistently bad and you aren't worth the scraps left over from a set of Prince Tournament Nylon. If you got a bad string job at a pro shop because you always hate it you're just plain stupid for going back.

    That is the most idiotic excuse for poor workmanship i have ever heard and i am sick of hearing it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
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  23. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Irvin is always right or almost always right!

    Sorry to get you so worked up! lol
     
    #23
  24. easterngrip

    easterngrip New User

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    Dear Irvin:
    You are a very bright member of this forum.
    I have learned a lot from your wise posts and clever videos.
    Lately you have been behaving in a fashion contrary to the Irvin we all learned to admire and respect.
    I hope to see the nice, wise and clever Irvin back.
    Best regards,
    Eastergrip
     
    #24
  25. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    irvin is upset because we proved him wrong in the other speed stringing thread where he made a false claim. it happens i guess

    sometimes fast is valued over quality. some people plan badly
     
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  26. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Not by me.
     
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  27. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    we see that very clear in the video you posted. as i said, some people plan badly
     
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  28. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If you are still crying about that my plan worked even better than I could have ever dreamed. Keep bringing it to remind me how upset you are.
     
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  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I agree with you. (Co-)Poly and delicate strings are being used more and more. (Co-)Poly strings are much more abrasive than other strings and stringing them too fast takes its toll on the life of a string. I also think (Co-)Poly strings should be pulled slower and longer than other strings because they resists change (tension) much more. Pulling slower gives the (Co-)Poly string time to relax while pulling longer allows the (Co-)Poly to be properly stretched while not over-stretching the string. A good way to improve your time is to pull tension and clamp the string as fast as possible. When stringing crosses the cross string isn't really fully tensioned as you don't give the string time to overcome the friction of the mains across the mains. One big advantage of a constant pull is to continue to pull for a longer period of time than a lockout. A string looses tension too fast if not allowed time to stretch.

    But like you said there are very few "great and fast" stringers.
     
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  30. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Hi Irvin, I apologize for what happened between us yesterday. I did not see your apology until now and I am sorry about that.

    I want to ask your opinion on something. How much tension, if any, do think can be lost by clamp strings 1 inch or even more from the frame of the racket as opposed to clamping strings 1/4 of an inch from the frame of the racket?

    I do appreciate your willingness to share you ideas and I really thought it was amazing how you used a piece of string to speed up weaving on the crosses, that really was a terrific idea.
     
    #30
  31. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    I asked that same question to a slam stringer, who strung for the Wilson string team. He ran a test of a good number of identical racquets where some the clamps were right up to the racquet and others an inch or more away, and then measure with a few different string bed stiffness instruments, and bottom line they were all the same.I inquired to him on this as some ATW patterns the machines clamp needed to be a distance away from the racquet to clamp the string, and he responded that there is no measurable difference.
     
    #31
  32. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I've always wondered about this. Thanks for posting.
     
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  33. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Do you know if the test was done on a Crank Machine as well as Electronic?
    Thanks
     
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  34. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    He has a Star 4 he used for years and also now has the Wilson Biardo, so I would assume he used one of those. His e-mail to me was a while back, and would be difficult to go through them all to find that e-mail to know exactly which machine he used.
     
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  35. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    How much tension is lost? Not enough for anyone to notice. I prefer to clamp the string as close to the frame as possible especially on the tie off strings. Therefore when i can I tie of the next to last outside main so I can get around the outside supports. I also like to tie off the top and bottom crosses when possible as long as I can stay away frm short sections of the frame supporting a pull.
     
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  36. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I dont think it would matter.
     
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  37. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    i am not upset at all-quite contrary its funny how badly you did that. just want to share it with others for a laugh
     
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  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Let me expand on this. If the string is not a tie off string it does make much difference. If you are going to tie the string off the closer the clamp is to the frame and the closer the grommet is to the anchor string the better. This is primarily to reduce drawback. I could make the tie off string lose quite a bit of tension but should not effect overall string bed stiffness that much.
     
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  39. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

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    I have not yet needed to push myself to see how fast I can go.
    I'm not sure I want to.
    A music teacher once told me, "If you can't do it slow, you'll never do it fast."
    There are too many who do it fast and sloppy, both in music and in stringing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
    #39
  40. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    i never did really. until this summer i didnt care for it. but a few times i was under pressure to crank them out so i sort of got tossed into the game. i am pleasantly surprised at how quickly i was able to pick it up
     
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  41. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    This makes no sense to me, and I would dare say it is completely incorrect.

    If the distance the clamp is from the frame makes no difference, then why not double or triple pull the crosses?
     
    #41
  42. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Perhaps a Drakulie test is in the cards?
     
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  43. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    I would tend to agree with Drakulie. I actually performed one test where I placed the clamps about a 1/4 inch from the frame on one racket when possible and an inch or more away another racket (same make and model and grip size) and the racket which had the clamps placed closer to the frame had a tighter string bed. This was done on a Prince Neos though. I think there would be less of a difference a Constant Pull machine.

    Another point which probably is obvious to most people is that if you place the clamp right up against the frame you will not be able to recover all of the drawback on the next pull. Anyone agree with that?
     
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  44. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    i think Drakulie is assuming the clamp is farther than as close as possible like maybe two inches on one string when the clamps are close together. Of course if you clamp the string as far from the tension head as possible it would make a big difference. I assumed Tennusdude was talking about very small differences. There is a difference but very small if done correctly.
     
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  45. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If the clamp does not twist out of position when tension is released you may not get all the drawback out of the clamp but it will be so close you can not see the difference. Also the slower you pull tension and the longer you pull tension the more drawback is recovered on the next pull. And I don't think it will matter if you use a constant pull or a lockout.

    EDIT: My guess is if you use a lockout and only pull once you will get more drawback recovered as long as the clamp does not twist. The reason being is if you pull once and clamp the string behind the clamp will lose tension faster. When you pull tension on the next string the the tension between the frame and the clamp will be lower than reference tension but there will be less difference between it and the tension in the other side of the clamp so more drawbackis recovered.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
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  46. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Drawback elimination with fixed clamps

    Another way you can reduce drawback if you have fixed clamps is to slightly push the base of the clamp slightly toward the tension head. Be very careful it is possible to add tension pushing it too far. You want the clamp to tighten slightly when you clamp the base and when you release tension it should drop back to the point where the clamp was without the base tightened.
     
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  47. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    I know this has been gone over several times before and there may be no definitive answer, however how much does anyone increase tension when switching from Electronic Constant Pull machine to a Crank machine. What is a happy medium for the increase? 6 percent maybe? And would this need to change when using Polyester or Natural Gut?
     
    #47
  48. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    That would depend on the string and how the lockout stringer is used. Notice in the picture below it takes about seconds (2-4) for a tension of 66 lbs to be pulled. Immediately after lockout the tension drops about 11 lbs in about o.5 seconds. then it maintains a fairly constant tension. What do you think would be the result of pulling tension more than once?

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: An easy way to see how much tension is actually lost for a specific string is to measure it. That can be done with a tension gauge if you have a lockout. Of course your question is the reverse of that. You can't really measure how much tension was lost string with a lockout. One could measure the string bed stiffness after a stringing job and then try to replicate that on any type machine. But then again depending on how you string and the methods you use you cant just look at a chart you are going to have to start tracking your work. Using the same consistent methods over and over, you should be able to determine what tension needs to be used to produce an SBS with a given head size and string pattern.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
    #48
  49. Wikky

    Wikky Rookie

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    Haven't posted on here in a couple months, when did everyone get so.... persistent? It seems like there's repeat threads everywhere.
     
    #49
  50. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Truth be known there is only so much you can talk about then you have to start repeating the same thing over and over again. But every once in a blue moon someone comes up with a fresh idea or problem.
     
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