Starting Mains Technique - Drakulie vs YULitle

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by indyfob2008, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. indyfob2008

    indyfob2008 Rookie

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    #1
  2. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    The method I was taught is the UKRSA way-which is the same (I think) as the Yusuki method (described in a previous thread). It's a good way to ensure you get proper tension on both centre mains.

    As for the two vids you show, both are fine, the Yusuki method is closer to Yulitles as both mains are pulled initially, but either method will work no problem at all so I would recommend you try both styles and see what fits with you best!

    Ash
     
    #2
  3. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    For just starting the mains I prefer the method that 'YULitle' used and no starting clamp. If you look close at the way the strings were started with the starting clamp the grommet was smashed a little. It may rebound irght but but why do it to begin with. If there was some type of spacer with a hole large enough to protect the grommet I can't see much difference. Find a racket with some old brittle grommet and they are gone on the first pull.

    Irvin
     
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  4. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    I like the Yusuki Method of starting mains.
    I have been using this way for about a year now. It was described in the Sept.2009 issue of RSI magazine which can be obtained on the USRSA web site. After I read that article I started using that method.
    Before that, I would start similar to Yulitles method, except I would string 2 mains on one side 1st, then go to the other side, this way there is enough room to place both machines fixed clamps next to each other, and be right up to the inside of the frame of the racquet, as I do not like to have the machines clamp away from the frame like some do,(staggering the machines clamps), as the next pull places stress on the string pulling it around 2 grommets, and the tension will not totally be pulled out with those couple inches.
    With this technique (Yusuki), when you release the tension head, there is enough tension to hold both clamps in place, you don't have to put the 1st clamp on a limp string, and the 1st clamp does not take all the force of the 1st pull by itself.It's a real nice way to start mains.
    Below is a link to that article for those who may wish to try it out.
    http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2009/09/the_yusuki_method_of_starting.html
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
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  5. indyfob2008

    indyfob2008 Rookie

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    thanks for the link and thanks for telling me about the Yusuki method. can't wait for my Alpha Revo 4000!
     
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  6. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    From my experience, none of the methods are better or worse than the others (including the Yusuki method). I've tried all 3, and always get the same DT at the end of the string job. Just a matter of which one you feel is best for you.
     
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  7. star 5 15

    star 5 15 Professional

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    I use a similar method as to what Drak uses. I put the starting clamp in the same place and pull directly against it. I however though place a piece of leather up against the frame between it and the starting clamp to take pressure off the frame at the site of the clamp. I believe I saw Roman prokes use this same method in a video. Except he doubles up on the starting clamps. I don't do that but I've never had anything slip with the babolat starters.
     
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  8. Virtua Tennis

    Virtua Tennis Semi-Pro

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    Not a fan of Yulittle's method I've seen people who don't have tight clamps or properly adjusted clamps strip the string when pulled. Also I use the Wilson Baiardo so the method doesn't work well when the clamp keep unlocking the base.

    Not big on drakulie method of putting the starting clamp on the inside of the frame where there's a chance of scratching the frame.

    I do use a starting clamp but I use it on the outside of the frame right against the bumper guard.
     
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  9. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I am not a big fan of the Yusuki method although it seems to be a good mehtod. With my stringer there is not much room to put the starting clamp in so the handle goes down out of the way it must stick up. Also many frames are painted in the throat area and you need to put something in to keep the paint from chipping.

    Irvin
     
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  10. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    I also use this method, and also use a leather pad against the frame. This will protect both the grommets, and the frame from being damaged.

    If the grommets were that brittle to start with I'd be replacing them. It would be likely that other grommets would be brittle or damaged.

    Regards

    Paul
     
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  11. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    That would be an excellent idea if you could get the grommets and if the customer wanted to pay to have new ones.

    Irvin
     
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  12. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Properly using a starting clamp will not chip the paint. You just need to be careful is all.I guess if you are in a rush, and attempting to beat the clock like many on these boards seem to do, then I guess you can get sloppy and chip paint, kink the strings and do all sorts of improper things.
    A use of a starting clamp will not cause ant damage if used carefully enough.
     
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^ Any time I use a starting clamp I poke a hole in a piece of business card (cut into 8 pieces) and put my string through it. That will offer protection against the paint but not protect the grommet any.

    Irvin
     
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  14. gotwheels

    gotwheels Semi-Pro

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    uk_skippy, I am a fan of your method of starting mains and have used it for years with never an issue. It is easy, simple, and efficient. Thanks for sharing the technique.

    I appreciate and am always enlightened with your posts/comments.
     
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  15. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    If you received a rqt which had brittle grommets, notwithstanding the current thread, what would you do? String as is and risk the grommet degrading, cutting in the string and breaking it prematurely? Tube it or replace it with an individual grommet ala the fittex system? Or contact the customer and advise on a replacement grommet strip (if still available)?

    To be honest, if the grommets were brittle chances are the frame is quite old and getting the grommet strip is unlikely, so you'd have to improvise with loose grommets and/or tubing. Either way I'd be addressing this problem, although it shouldn't affect the way I start the mains.

    Agreed. If fact Babolat should the way to use only a starting clamp when starting the mains in their video which came out for the maintenance of the Star 3 & 4.

    As previous mentioned, I use a leather pad to protect both the frame and grommet. Using this method I have NEVER damaged any grommets, not scratched a frame. The only way I can see the clamp damaging the grommet is if the clamp is put directly onto the grommet.

    If I felt that this method is detrimental to the integrity to the string, grommet or frame then I would change. At the moment I see no evidence to suggest that I need to reconsider changing.

    Thanks for the comment, much appreciated.

    Regards

    Paul
     
    #15
  16. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    Hmmm...well I do something different from either of those. I clamp the first main and put a starting clamp behind that clamp. I then string the first two mains on the opposite side.

    Then, I pull tension on the double clamped main, release tension from the starting clamp, move the fixed clamp down the length of the string and then pull the next main on that side. The benefit is that I don't have either fixed clamp set too tightly to hold.

    It works for me.
     
    #16
  17. indyfob2008

    indyfob2008 Rookie

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    I didn't know there were so many different "startin mains" methods. This thread made my life a little bit more complicated as I will receive my machine in a couple days...
     
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  18. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Should not be more complicated, as you see they all work, and this will give you a chance over time to try them each out and see what you may like. End results are same, just different techniques to get you there. Have fun along the way!!There are more different points of views more controversal than this to be sure. Good luck!
     
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  19. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I agree, as usual, with jim_e. The whole deal is to do something you're comfortable with that will allow you to replicate results time and time again. In my case, I try to keep my clamps as loose as possible. But, when pulling the first main, there is slippage unless you tighten it down (or have diamond dusted clamps). So, I did some reading and tried both ways mentioned in video, and arrived at this solution which is the easiest for me.

    Have fun with your new stringer. Just remember that the key word is "consistency".
     
    #19
  20. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Substitute "complicated" for "fun" an you're nearer the mark :)

    As you have probably noticed by now, we stringers are a funny and slightly obsessive bunch (geeks basically!) - for reference see the 4 page thread discussing how to tie the same knot in a thousand varied ways!!! The fun part comes from trying different methods and techniques and seeing what fits for you and your machine. I've changed my habits over the years by trying things i've read on here from guys like jim, irv, drak, yulitle, paul skipp and many others and i've also discarded many things i've tried too!

    The beauty of having your own machine is being able to experiment!

    Ash
     
    #20
  21. indyfob2008

    indyfob2008 Rookie

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    right on! I agree that "fun" is a more appropriate word than "complicated". Thanks everyone for the feedback. I enjoyed reading all the posts, but it would be even cooler if there were some more videos showing all the different ways you can start the mains...I too am an "obsessive geek" - which probably is the more modest term for those who enjoy the journey and process of learning then mastering new things in life. it's great to read the thoughts of so many "geeks" in T.T.
     
    #21
  22. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Agree. I've never run into any sort of problem using the method. If grommets are that bad, then they would need replacing anyhow. I've never cracked/damaged a grommet or left a racquet with a paint chip as some are implying would happen if using this method.

    Additionally, as you pointed out, Babolat even advises to start the mains this way when using the starting clamp.

    Bottom line is, all the methods mentioned work. Just a matter of what one feels most comfortable with.
     
    #22
  23. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I beg your pardon I did not say it would happen I emplied it could happen. There is a big difference. I speed, but I have never had an accident. Does that mean that since I have never had an accident it is ok to speed? If so I want my money back. LMAO

    Here is my take on this. I would not use a method that smashes a grommet or puts metal against paint. Sounds to me like an accident waiting to happen. No matter who suggests I do it, not even the racket stringers association of the world.

    Irvin
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    #23
  24. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

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    Do they have a web site?
     
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  25. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I didn't direct my comment towards you.


    If you do the procedure corrrectly, then:

    1. you won't "smash" the grommet, and
    2. won't put the "metal against paint".
    And, like I said, use the procedure that works best for you, regardless of the source (poster, USRSA, UKRSA, Top Pro Stringer, etc).
     
    #26
  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^ Hummm? OK lets take the head racket in your video.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/drakulie#p/u/4/H4TpCdIJHeM

    Since you started at the head that means 1T and 2T are connected by a loop of string on the outside of the frame. So you are pulling against the string on 2T with the metal starting clamp on one side (inside the frame) and the string (first right main) being pulled under tension on the other side. Does this not smash the grommet? When that grommet is smashed does the metal starting clamp not rest up against paint? BTW if you started at the throat I would have the same issue.

    Irvin
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    #27
  28. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    NO. The grommet is not smashed, nor is the paint chipped. If this were the case, I wouldn't be stringing this frame every week, unless I had a ton of extra throat grommets, for this frame or anyone else frames I string.
     
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  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    So that grommet at 1:05 in your video is not up against the frame? Must be a strong grommet. I am not saying that every time you put metal against paint the the paint will lose but I just don't think it is safe. At least not with someone else's racket.

    Irvin
     
    #29
  30. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Irvin, when one pulls the string, the grommet moves a slight bit inwards, therefore does not become "crushed". Also, the starting clamp does not rub on the paint.

    All methods of starting a string job have their pros and cons. I have used at least 5-6 different methods. All result in the same DT, and all have something positive/something negative (depending on each person's point of view).
     
    #30
  31. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Agree completely

    Irvin
     
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  32. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    Frankly, if you don't like that method, then don't use it. Use the method that you feel works best for you, and that goes for all stringers.

    I, like others, use this (or similar) method without problems. I've never damaged a grommet, nor chipped the paint of a frame using this method and I've strung for local weekend hackers to top, top pros.

    As mentioned before, unless I'm shown suitable evidence, or can be persuaded otherwise, I will continue to use this method.

    As C.J. from Sunshine Desserts often says "I didn't get where I am today........"
     
    #32
  33. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I have the worst method of starting the mains. I hand pull them through the starting grommets then clamp the 2 middle strings. I then tension the long side which is strung through the frame an extra time. I sucked at yusaki and stripped the string when I did it, so I can't use that. I was told my method by Mark at Gamma, and I like his advice even though I am not sure if it is the best way to do it.

    I have an alpha string pal. I would like to try Drak's way, but I think he is clamping one string at a time, and I do not know if my flying stringway clamps can do that.
     
    #33
  34. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^ If you have a starting clamp I am not sure why the Yusuki method would not work for you. Do you have a starting clamp or did you use a flying clamp for a starting clamp?

    Irvin
     
    #34
  35. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I use a flying clamp, but I also own a starting clamp. The double pull of the strings is what does not really work for me. I know it works for topalengo who has the same machine, but I have not had the same luck.
     
    #35
  36. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^ if you have a starting clamp there is no need to double pull. I am not sure if you are talking about starting the mains or the crosses using the double pulling.

    Maybe we have a different concept of what double pulling is. When two strings are pulled to set the tension in the clamp I do not consider that double pulling since I am not pulling tension on a string. Such as when I pull 1RM and 1LM and set a clamp as far from the tension head as I can. When the tension is released all tension is gone. But if I were to clamp 1RM at the top of the racket and pull tension on 1LM to clamp at the top of the racket I am double pulling. I am effectively pulling tension on 1LM and 1RM at the same time. But using this method because of the friction of the bend connecting 1LM and 1RM I don't think you get full tension on each main.

    Irvin
     
    #36
  37. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Ok. I meant pulling both strings at once to start the mains. So if that does not have to happen, my other question is if I can clamp just 1 string with my flying clamps. Because I did not think that worked, and I thought you had to clamp 2 at a time.
     
    #37
  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^ Normallly that is not possible with flying clamps but it can be done. Look at this video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO9qWaom4cg

    To start the mains initially if you can not pull two strings at one time with your stringer just pull them hard by hand before you set your top clamp. The main idea is you want some tension in the clamp to keep the strings straight through the clamp.

    Irvin
     
    #38
  39. Wolfy950

    Wolfy950 New User

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    Pulling two strings at once

    If you pull two strings at the same time, each will only have one-half of the tension that you set on your tension head. Basic physics.

    That is, if you set your tension head at 60 lbs and pull two strings, each will have only 30 lbs of tension. Do you compensate for this?
     
    #39
  40. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    ^^ Absolutely. Initially I pull two string just to set the clamp on the string. Then each string is pulled again to set tension before clamping on the other end.

    Irvin
     
    #40
  41. decades

    decades Guest

    I have a neos and have a plastic throat piece. this prevents me from using a starting clamp on the inside throat of the frame correct? or do I put it up against the throat insert?
     
    #41
  42. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Thanks Irvin. That makes sense. Now from that video, what I could also do is clamp that shortside string with a starting clamp instead of the flying clamp yulitle is using, correct?
     
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  43. topanlego

    topanlego Semi-Pro

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    Simple reason... the Yusuki method ONLY works for FIXED clamp. Not flying clamps that are used with the String Pal.

    I had mentioned this in the Yusuki thread a while back but everybody was getting confused.

    again.. the YUSUKI method only works with Fixed Clamps. Those with fixed clamps with single action release, where the base releases when the clamp drops down, will benefit the most from this method. By holding some tension in between the machine clamp and the starting clamp, it prevents the machine clamp from dropping down there releasing the clamp base.

    if you have FLYING clamps, please refer to YuLitle's video if you don't want to double pull to start the mains. If you don't mind, you can just follow any of the instructions available for flying clamps such as the ones on Silent Partner's site.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
    #43
  44. GPB

    GPB Professional

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    Yes, that's how I learned to do it, with flying clamps and one starting clamp.
     
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  45. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The Yusuki method may not work with certain stringers but it will surely work with flying or floating clamps.

    Irvin
     
    #45
  46. topanlego

    topanlego Semi-Pro

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    In that case, it will work with all stringers unless you can't put 2 stings into the gripper at once.

    Must be user error or misunderstanding of the method. The original article includes a picture of a fixed clamp machine which can cause confusion as it only clamps 1 string instead of both when using flying clamps.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2010
    #46
  47. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, Drak's video was clearly done with fixed clamps on one string.

    So for drop weight people like me :

    String mains through first 2 main grommets (top through bottom or opposite depending on racquet).

    Pull tightly with hands or double pull with clamp.

    Clamp away from the tensioner (for me the top hoop, since I start the strings from the top) with a flying clamp.

    Pull one main. Put starting clamp on that main outside of the hoop.

    Pull second main. Take flying clamp from top of hoop and clamp both main strings.

    Take same string and thread it through the opposite side, then pull tension.

    Take clamp off of 2 mains and clamp the long side.

    Stay on the long side and thread it to the opposite side and pull tension. Then clamp.

    Pull tension on the string with the starting clamp on it. Release the starting clamp. Take your 2nd flying clamp and clamp it inside the hoop as normal.

    Go from there.

    Is this correct?
     
    #47
  48. Cfidave

    Cfidave Professional

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    You are correct. Almost impossible to put a starting clamp inside the throat area on the Neos/Ektelon stringer, without damaging something . Use the Yusuki method, starting clamp between outside of racquet and tension head, works much better for the Neos.
     
    #48
  49. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The Yusuki method pulls tension on the first two mains at the same time and you put your clamp as far from the tension head as you can inside the frame. You also place a starting clamp on the outside of the frame to back up the clamp on the other end of the string. It is described well here:

    http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/articles/2009/09/the_yusuki_method_of_starting.html

    If you would like to see a video using flying clamps I am stringing a couple of rackets now and I can do that for you.

    Irvin
     
    #49
  50. topanlego

    topanlego Semi-Pro

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    Not necessary as your video will be the same as YuLitle's except that you don't pull tension on the main with the starting clamp.
     
    #50

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