Stats for 1979 USO Final(Austin-Evert)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Moose Malloy, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Austin d Evert 6-4, 6-3

    Austin served at 71%(45-63)
    she won 53% of 1st serve pts(24-45)
    and won 61% of 2nd serve pts(11-18)
    she won 61 pts total

    Evert served at 87%(47-54)
    she won 57% of 1st serve pts won(27-47)
    and she won 14% of 2nd serve pts won(1-7)
    she won 56 pts total

    Austin had 13 winners: 6 fh, 4 bh, 1 fhv, 2 ov
    Evert had 7: 3 fh, 2 bh, 2 ov

    neither player had an ace or a double fault

    Austin had 35 unforced errors: 17 fh, 18 bh
    Evert had 31: 18 fh, 12 bh, 1 fhv, 1 ov

    Austin was 5-7 on break points. Evert made her 1st serve on all of them
    Evert was 3-9 on break points. Austin made her 1st serve on 5 of them

    Austin was 5-7 at net, Evert 3-7

    Austin drew 10 return errors, 4 on 2nd serve
    Evert drew 5 return errors, 1 on 2nd serve
    Austin didn't miss a return in the 1st set.

    The last game was rather dramatic. Austin hit 3 winners in the game(and she had hit very few up until then) And Evert had 2 break points to get back on serve. Very shocking finish, seeing Evert dump an easy 2nd serve into the net down match point. Had she broken to get to 4-5, I think she would have still had a good shot to win the match.

    I know many say Austin was a better version of Evert, but I don't see that in this match. Evert was almost always the first player to go down the line in the middle of their many extended crosscourt rallies, and the first to attempt an approach shot. While Austin would usually be the first player to go to the moonball. And Evert seemed faster as well(and taller of course)
    She just didn't seem as versatile a player as Evert imo (even the teenage Evert)

    There were no net cord apologies by either player in this match(seems to be the norm for this era of tennis)
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
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  2. Kirijax

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    This was the first U.S. Open I ever watched on TV. I still remember being shocked at how incredibly noisy it was and the umpire having to yell out "ADVANTAGE, EVERT LLOOOOOOOYYYYYD!"
     
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  3. BTURNER

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    Thanks for the stats and assessment.

    Moose, an aesthetic question, were you bored watching this match? Most folks claimed to be bored to death by the style of play and super long rallies in Austin/ Evert or Evert/ Jaeger matches.

    I guess what I am really getting at, is the criteria you use to decide which matches you do this work on, if it does not include enjoyment. And lots of people would not see this as highly entertaining.
     
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  4. CEvertFan

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    I was a little bored to be honest - I have the match on DVD and have only ever watched it that first time after I bought it. One of the few times I've ever seen Evert play tentative and the moonballing from Austin made it one of the less entertaining matches I've seen.

    A far superior Evert/Austin match is the 1980 US Open semi. That match was very interesting to watch.
     
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  5. krosero

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    New York Times:

    It was not a great final. Mrs. Lloyd’s 6-7, 6-4, 6-1 triumph in the final of a $75,000 tournament in Ramapo, N.J., two weeks ago had more dramatic elements and a higher level of intensity. Of the first 46 points in the opening set yesterday, with the score 4-all, 38 were decided on errors, most of them unforced during routine baseline rallies.​

    Virginia Wade said that Tracy had gotten tired in that NJ match after going up a set and 4-2 in the second.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
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  6. krosero

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    At 2-3 in the second, CBS noted that the average rally was 25 shots.

    In that last game mentioned by Moose, Tracy ended a 37-stroke rally with a BH winner.
     
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  7. krosero

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    Chris had said in April 1979 (Sunday Star-News):

    There are two ways to beat Tracy, be patient or overpower her. I can’t overpower her, so I have to be patient.​
     
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  8. krosero

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    I know what you mean, I had always assumed that Tracy was slightly better than Chris, in terms of ballstriking. But technically I think Evert’s strokes look, if possible, just a little better and more versatile – she seems able to get pace and length a little easier than Tracy, especially when driving back moonballs.

    Tracy’s shots did look better in this match once she got the upper hand, but I think she got that advantage mentally.

    I do think Austin got sharper angles than Evert, from the backhand side.

    Virginia Wade said that Tracy had more footspeed on the baseline; but she thought Chris had superior anticipation.
     
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  9. krosero

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    Austin became the youngest winner of this event, at 16 years 9 months. Chris was 24.
     
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  10. BTURNER

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    And that turned out to be Evert's problem right there. It was a lack of imagination. There was a third way, but she did not see it because she had never needed to before. Nobody was as patient than Evert - until Austin. It was about using variety( volleys, angles, spins and changes in depth) to mix up rhythm and confound. In short it was doing onto Austin, as King and Goolagong tried to do onto her. I imagine it as very hard to let go of a careers worth of tactics and employ foreign ones.

    Still it only offered her mixed success against Austin, just as it offered up mixed success for King and Evonne.
     
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  11. krosero

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    Chris was definitely taken out of her comfort zone; no one had ever tested her patience before.

    In their '80 rematch Tracy seemed to get impatient, though. After the match she cited both impatience and poor movement as reasons for her loss. Chris was pleased with her own patience.

    I agree with you Chris had a little more variety in her game and could have used it to get some edge in these matches. But these two were such committed baseliners that inevitably their matches would be all about patience -- or rather who had more patience/fitness on the given day.
     
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  12. krosero

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    This service percentage is the highest I know of in a women's GS final (I know of 43 performances serving at 70% or above, in women's GS finals). The only two higher that I know of, in a Slam final, are by Borg and Wilander in the '79 and '88 RG finals respectively.

    Not good at all for Chris.

    She lost every rally that started with her own second serve.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
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  13. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    wasn´t Andrea Jaeger, at the 79 US Open the youngest ever participant there?
     
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  14. Moose Malloy

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    here are stats I took for the 1980 USO SF

    Evert d Austin 4-6, 6-1, 6-1

    Evert served at 84%(56-67)
    she won 64% of 1st serve pts (36-56)
    and she won 45% of 2nd serve pts (5-11)
    had 1 ace, 2 df's

    Austin served at 72%(48-67)
    she won 46% of 1st serve pts(22-48)
    and won 37% of 2nd serve pts(7-19)
    had no aces, 1 df

    I credited Evert with 18 winners, 30 unforced errors.
    Austin with 8 winners, 37 unforced errors.

    Evert was 8-10 on break points. Austin made 1st serves on 5 of them.
    Austin was 4-8 on break points. Evert made 1st serves on 6 of them. Austin had only one break point in the last 2 sets.

    Evert drew 8 return errors, 1 on 2nd serve.
    Austin drew 8 as well, 2 on 2nd serve.

    Evert was 16-20 at net(80%)
    Austin was 6-14(43%)

    I agree with this. She made some ue's early in rallies in the 2nd set. Maybe she was a bit tired from the 1st set(there was a 53 shot rally that Austin won in the 9th game)

    When I was counting ue's in this match, part of me wondered if I was judging Evert more harshly than Austin. One of my criteria for forced vs unforced is if a player has enough time to take a full swing. Evert was almost always able to get a full swing on a ball, wherever she was, whereas Austin wasn't(in both matches I was a bit surprised at how badly Austin could sometimes misjudge where a ball would land, and not be able to adjust her feet or racquet in time to get a decent swing on the ball) so sometimes when Evert missed a groundstroke long, it seemed more of an ue than Austin in a similar situation.

    Here are some briefer stats on the Evert-Mandlikova final(very similar score - 57, 6-1. 6-1)

    Evert - 14 winners, 10 ue's, no aces, 2 df's, 81% 1st serves in
    Mandlikova - 26 winners, 46 ue's, 3 aces, 5 df's, 47% 1st serves in
     
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  15. BTURNER

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    Both were known for superb passes, and conservative approaches yet there is a huge disparity both in total number of net points (36 for Chris and 20 for Tracy) and in percentage of points won at net, 43% for Austin and 80 % for Evert. Was that because Austin was dragged in, or because Evert was a more effective volleyer, or her passes were better?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
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  16. Con_T

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    Very shocking finish, seeing Evert dump an easy 2nd serve into the net down match point. Had she broken to get to 4-5, I think she would have still had a good shot to win the match.

    Yes, a terrible forehand to finish the match, which showed how mentally cowed/dispirited Chris was by the end of the match. She actually led 4-3 in the first set and then Austin won six straight to pull away.

    This was the first U.S. Open I ever watched on TV. I still remember being shocked at how incredibly noisy it was and the umpire having to yell out "ADVANTAGE, EVERT LLOOOOOOOYYYYYD!"

    Well, I thought, for the most part, the gallery was pretty quiet, which is very unusual for a NY crowd. It wasn't the most exciting tennis, IMO.

    I do think Austin got sharper angles than Evert, from the backhand side.

    I thought Tracy was taking the ball much earlier than Chris on the backhand. She moved well, but I never thought Austin was especially athletic or fast around the court and she was relatively slow on the turn. Evert was such an efficient mover and her footwork was amazing.

    Both were known for superb passes, and conservative approaches yet there is a huge disparity both in total number of net points (36 for Chris and 20 for Tracy) and in percentage of points won at net, 43% for Austin and 80 % for Evert. Was that because Austin was dragged in, or because Evert was a more effective volleyer, or her passes were better?


    All of the above, especially in the last two sets. It's been a while since I've seen the match, but I'm sure Chris really started to drop, then pass Tracy a lot. I remember lots of dropshots from Evert.
     
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  17. krosero

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    How many points did each serve?
     
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  18. krosero

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    I agree, it can't be just a matter of seeing if a player is out of position when hitting a ball. Sometimes it's their own fault that they're out of position; other times they're genuinely rushed by the opponent.

    Nothing simple about UEs, I guess. But in a way it's simple for Evert; when she's out of position it's almost never her fault.
     
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  19. Moose Malloy

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    I took rally counts for the 2nd set, they don't match up with CBS, average strokes per point in my count was 9.5.

    Using the stats I've seen in Masters Series events this year, the set breaks down like this:

    Austin
    points won between 1-4 shots: 12
    5-9 shots: 9
    10+ shots: 13

    Evert
    1-4 shots: 9
    5-9 shots: 12
    10+: 7

    Evert - 73
    Hana - 75
     
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  20. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    Yay! Moose is back! :)
     
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  21. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    1980 US Opened 10 more years for Evert to play

    what could have happened if she lost to Austin ? and worse, to Hana on her own backyard?
     
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  22. krosero

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    Adding the DF's to those UE counts:

    Evert’s Aggressive Margin was 6.7%. Austin's was negative: -11.2%.

    The previous year both had negative AM's: Evert -8.5%, Austin -4.3.

    So the '80 semi looks very much like the better played match.
     
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  23. BTURNER

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    Nothing much. Austin would still have that back injury and Hana stays Hana with two or three inexplicable losses for every great victory. Evert was never one to dwell on 'might have beens' for long or quit after a loss, and she would never have put the kind of time into her 'comeback' after her sabbatical, if she did not mean business. If she had not made it all the way at this Open, she would have sooner rather than later at RG or the Wimbledon or next years Open.
     
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  24. krosero

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    I find this amazing: only Evert's first serve was an advantage; otherwise the receiver always was more likely to win the point.

    If you just look at points in which serves were returned (ie, rallies):

    Evert was 58% on first serve (28/48 ) and 50% on second (4/8 ).
    Austin was 38% on first serve (16/42) and 31% on second (5/16).

    So Evert "cured" the situation from the previous year, when she lost every rally that started on her second serve.

    This may have been the most important stat of the match. Chris obviously did not have a "weapon" of a serve, but for whatever reason, she had an advantage when she made her first serve. In every other situation -- on Evert's second serve, and on both of Austin's serves -- the receiver was more likely to win the point.

    Whatever the reason, this made it difficult for Austin to break serve, since Chris made her first serve on 6 of 8 break points.

    If Evert's first serve had not been an advantage to her overall -- or if she had not made her first serve so often on break point -- the match might have been closer.

    What I find amazing about all this is that we think of Austin-Evert as nothing but moonball fests in which the serve, at most, was used merely to start the point -- yet the serve seems to have been a real factor in both their USO matches.

    In '79 Chris could not win a single rally when she had to go to second serve. The next year her first serve was the single biggest advantage, both overall and on the critical points.

    Obviously, whatever is going on here, it's very subtle. These two obviously had weak serves. Maybe a weak serve, returned strongly, would give the receiver an upper hand in the rally -- maybe just a slight advantage that would not be obvious but which would nonetheless be real.

    Sometimes I think the advantage could be entirely mental. It could be that a player, missing her first serve, then starts the point with some negative thoughts about missing her serve, or about having to play on her second serve. Maybe she's nervous or intimidated by the sight of Tracy bouncing around on the baseline ready to pounce on a second serve.

    So maybe in some cases it's more mental than physical, when we see the serve playing such a large factor in matches.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  25. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I am sorry but never bought the sabbatical Evert stuff.

    it was a big effort to protect her .She was the first to dismantle that
     
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  26. BTURNER

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    HuH? What are you talking about? She only took four months off the tour to get some perspective and decompress. Its not hard to understand, nor especially controversial. She had been playing those long hypnotic rallies since she was 12 years old, and stayed on the tour for 7 years,avoiding other aspects of a well rounded life, and that lifestyle and pressure to win takes a toll. When she got married, she took time off much like Margaret Court did. And of course it was also an effort to protect her. Her burn-out was inducing some uncharacteristic losses and she was smart enough to see it. Sounds like it would have been a good idea for both Austin and Jaeger, if you asked me, but their parents got in the way. I think Austen might have lasted a lot longer if she'd taken the time to completely heal her body. How can you sneer at the results in a career that lasted a decade longer at the very top than so many other baseliners? It worked!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Well, correct me if wrong.
    1979-81 schedules had the Avon Tour played indoors at Philadelphia,Kansas City,Detroit,Chicago,LA,Houston venues as well as the finals.

    Then we moved to spring time at places so sunny and Evert like style such as Hilton Head and Amelia Island and the pre RG season at Berlin and Rome, which were events Evert specially enjoyed.

    Then Eastbourne and/ or Birmingham on grass prior to Wimbledon and, not including Wightman Cups and Fed Cups, here we are at the Pre Open season which normally would include Mahwah and Bloomingfield and Indianapolis and Canada ( mainly Montreal).

    lets move to the autumn where there were coveted titles to be won at places like Filderstadt,Zurich,Brighton and Tokyo and the VS championships to top it all.If we exclude the always volatile Australian season, Chris did compete at about 15 regular season events plus 3 slams + 2 indoor championships, and that not including exos.20 events per year at least from 1979 to 1981 or 1982.

    Of course, there were defeats not only at Austin´s, Hana´s,Martina´s, Evonne´s or Andrea´s hands but also some glory days for the likes of Turnbull,Fromholtz,Barker or Stevens, such as I vividly recall it.

    Did I get it right?
     
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  28. BTURNER

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    I have no idea. I don't know what you are getting at. I have no clue what is going on in your conspiratorial mind. So instead I thought offer the links to the two extended vacations she took and what she said so you can find whatever holes or lies you choose to.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19780328&id=ztkvAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4u0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6847,5250625

    http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20072223,00.html

    https://www.athletesquarterly.com/athletes/chris-evert/
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  29. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    No conspiration here
    Evert always played quite a lot
    Of course much more at her beginnings
     
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  30. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I think you misinterpreted what I wrote.

    16-20 means 16 of 20, not 16 of 36. 16/20 is 80%


    Interesting.
     
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  31. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    1980 was the pivotal year in Evert's career
    Just in the exact middle of it
    On one hand,she conjured the phantoms of 1979 beating Navy at the Wimb.sf and Austin at the US sf,as well as the phantoms of future beating Mandlikova at the FO sf and USO f
    She, like Borg,played the three big finals of the season,winning two.Maybe her best year ever
    But there were never ending rumours from journalist,supported by many statements from herself that she was giving top priority to marriage and its next inmediate step,raising her own familiy
    Evonne had showed her the way after Wimbledon, but Chris knew she was less naturaly talented and she would have to work so much in case she would decide to come back after giving birth
    Those psychological factors,the positive ones and those big black question marks about her future as both,a woman and player,made of 1980 a Shakesperian exhilarating year for Chris
    How thrilling that big crossroad!! How many determining imputs on and off court!!!
    In the very middle of her pro career and youth,what she decided in 1980 would be critical for the Whole next decade as player and human being

    1980 made Chris Evert
    The most Interesting year of her existence
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
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  32. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    What is rare is their 1980 score
    Tracy just disappeared in the second and third set
     
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  33. BTURNER

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    Its really not that odd in their rivalry for sets to be a wipe-outs, Kiki. I'll high-light sets where the loser does not even get 3 games. Evert set routs are red, Austin routs are in purple. In most of these sets, someone just isn't competitive. Its the close set that is the anomaly. They only played 3 matches that went 3 sets. why I don't know.

    1977 Wimbledon 3R W 6-1, 6-1
    1978 Hilton Head, SC SF W 6-3, 6-1
    1978 U.S. Open QF W 7-5, 6-1
    1979 Avon Chanpionships RR L 6-3, 6-1
    1979 La Costa, CA SF W 6-1, 7-5
    1979 Italian Open SF L 6-4, 2-6, 7-6
    1979 Mahwah, NJ F W 6-7, 6-4, 6-1
    1979 U.S. Open F L 6-4, 6-3
    1979 Filderstadt, Germany SF L 6-3, 7-5
    1980 Avon Championships RR L 6-1, 6-3
    1980 Avon Championships SF L 6-3, 6-0
    1980 Cincinnati, OH F L 6-2, 6-1
    1980 U.S. Open SF W 4-6, 6-1, 6-1
    1981 Toronto, Ontario F L 6-1, 6-4
    1981 Toyota Championships RR W 4-6, 6-4, 7-6
    1981 Toyota Championships SF L 6-1, 6-2
    1982 Toyota Championships SF W 6-0, 6-0

    Just for laughs I'll do the same thing for Evert/ Jaeger.

    1980 Chichester, England QF W 6-3, 6-2
    1980 Wimbledon QF W 6-1, 6-1
    1980 Indianapolis, IN F W 6-4, 6-3
    1980 Deerfield Beach, FL F W 6-4, 6-1
    1981 Toronto, Ontario SF W 4-6, 6-1, 6-2
    1981 Deerfield Beach, FL F W 4-6, 6-3, 6-0
    1982 Oakland, CA F L 7-6, 6-4
    1982 Palm Beach, FL F W 6-1, 7-5
    1982 Hilton Head, SC SF L 6-1, 1-6, 6-2
    1982 Amelia Island, FL F W 6-3, 6-1
    1982 French Open SF L 6-3, 6-1
    1982 U.S. Open SF W 6-1, 6-2
    1982 Deerfield Beach, FL F W 6-1, 6-1
    1982 Palm Harbour, FL F W 3-6, 6-1, 6-4
    1982 Tokyo, Japan F W 6-3, 6-2
    1982 Australian Open SF W 6-1, 6-0
    1983 Palm Beach Gardens, FL F W 6-3, 6-3
    1983 French Open SF W 6-3, 6-1
    1983 Tokyo, Japan SF W 6-1, 7-5
    1984 Johannesburg F W 6-3, 6-0
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
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  34. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, it is pretty curious, specially because none was a streak player and both could sustain the same level all throughout the match.None had a big serve that could make a difference as well.
     
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  35. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Tracy is also quite underrated indoors which was her second best surface (Avon, Toyota finals) after hard courts.She was even better there than on clay.
     
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  36. BTURNER

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    I think she really preferred sure footed surfaces with no sliding or slick spots or funny hops or bounces. She could really get into a groove on her strokes. She would have been devastating on the hard courts of the modern Aussie. Ironically hard courts were probably the worst option for her back, though.
     
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  37. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, I see her much in the mold of Monica Seles.But Seles was stronger on clay courts.

    I think had Tracy hold on, she might have had a good chance to win the French in 1984 or 1985.
     
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  38. BTURNER

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    Maybe, but I would have bet a lot more on her chances of winning at least a couple of the '83 through 87 US Opens! I see Austin a more mentally tough version of Capriati
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
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  39. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    The US lost a whole generation with the cases of Austin and Jaeger; in fact they wouldn´t have comparable players until Daveport and Capriati in the second half of the 90´s.
     
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