Stats for 1999 FO Final (Graf-Hingis)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Moose Malloy, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Graf d Hingis 4-6, 7-5, 6-2

    my stats:

    Hingis had 31 winners: 13 fh, 11 bh, 4 fhv, 2 bhv, 1 ov

    Graf had 29: 16 fh, 10 bh, 2 fhv, 1 ov

    Hingis had no aces, 1 double
    Graf had 1 ace, 5 doubles

    Hingis served at 63%(64 of 102)

    She won 37 of 64 points on 1st serve(58%) & 14 of 38 on 2nd(37%)

    Graf served at 56%(54 of 97)

    She won 36 of 54 points on 1st serve(67%) & 19 of 43 on 2nd serve(44%)

    Graf was 8 of 13 on break points(she broke in 8 of the 9 games she had a break point in)

    Hingis was 6 of 14(she broke in 6 of the 8 games she had break point in)

    Hingis was called for 2 foot faults, Graf one.

    these were some stats from NBC:

    after 1 set, Hingis had 13 winners, 9 unforced
    Graf had 15 winners, 21 unforced

    at 3-3 in the 2nd, Hingis was 14 of 25 at net, Graf 11 of 17
     
    #1
  2. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    How many underhanded serves did each hit per set? LOL
     
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  3. grafselesfan

    grafselesfan Banned

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    It is amazing to see Hingis with 13 forehand winners and Graf with 10 backhand winners.
     
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  4. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Pretty much all of Graf's bh winners were either passing shots or drop shots. I don't think I've ever seen her hit more drop shots.

    As to Hingis, her stats in this match surprised me. Maybe she had more power off the ground than she is given credit for(or maybe Graf's power is a bit overrated, esp in the context of the late 90s generation)
     
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  5. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Graf made 107 points, Hingis 93.
     
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  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    From Moose's numbers I get 106-93.
     
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  7. krosero

    krosero Legend

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  8. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    One thing I notice about the boxscore is that the break points can't be right. The score was 4-6, 7-5, 6-2, so Graf must have made two more breaks than Hingis, as she does in Moose's numbers. In the boxscore she leads by only one break.
     
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  9. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    I think, though, that Graf hit a lot of forcing shots that were not clean winners. And in the boxscore she's got a very large windfall of winners beyond the clean winners/aces you gave her: 16 altogether. Hingis has only 1 extra winner.

    Some of that could be judgment calls made on Graf's serves (service winners), but on clay Graf always forced errors mostly with her forehand.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
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  10. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    I counted 11 unreturned serves for Hingis, 8 for Graf. None that I judged as service winners,

    Pretty surprised that box score would give Graf that many more winners, because my winner counts for the 1st set lined up exactly with NBC's. Wonder if they used a different source for their counts.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009
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  11. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    Plus one penalty point against Hingis.
     
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  12. Warriorroger

    Warriorroger Hall of Fame

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    I don't think her power is overrated, have many of her tapes and have all of the rackets she played with and to produce those serves and forehands in the 88/93 period with the Dunlop Max 200G is amazing. That was such a non-flexible racket. Her power is a different one than the power generated through the rackets.
     
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  13. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Yes, that would explain it; I'd forgotten the penalty point.
     
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  14. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    Her power is overrated in the sense that her power all comes from the serve and the forehand. There are others like the Williams, Davenport, Seles, who produce that kind of extreme power from the serve, forehand, backhand, and return of serve.
     
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  15. Texastennis

    Texastennis Rookie

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    Too much narrow emphasis on "power." Graf's slice backhand penetrated very well and did far more damage than many "big power" backhands.
     
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  16. Joe Pike

    Joe Pike Banned

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    But why then did Graf hit more winners than the Davenports and Seleses all the time?
     
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  17. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    I have this one on DVD. I have never seen Hingis in such a bizarre mood as she was during this match, from the walking to the other side, to the snarky attitude and temper, to the alternating bouts of fake indifference and desperation. Gotta wonder if she was on something.
     
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  18. fedhingis515

    fedhingis515 Semi-Pro

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    This match breaks my heart...
     
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  19. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    Tactically is was the worst match I saw her play. She was hitting droppers from behind the baseline vs the fastest woman on the tour. I think she won one point off that tactic. Idiocy.
     
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  20. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    do you have any stats on this? not saying you're wrong, but Graf did hit less winners than very young Venus & Serena in their meetings 1999. I wonder about the '99 W Final(Davenport-Graf)
     
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  21. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    For 99W, from the Western Daily Press:

    MATCH STATISTICS
    LINDSAY DAVENPORT (USA) v STEFFI GRAF (GER)
    4 Aces 2
    1 Double faults 0
    66 First serves in (%) 62
    95 Average first serve speed 97
    78 Average second serve speed 83
    106 Fastest serve speed 105
    76 1st serve points won (%) 65
    57 2nd serve points won (%) 69
    39 Unforced errors 42
    21 Winners (including service) 25
    70 Total points won 67
    12/19 Net points won of approaches 8/9
    2/2 Break points won 0/2
     
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