Steve Flink: Nole has reached the level of tennis higher than the level in 2011

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by 5555, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. chjtennis

    chjtennis Hall of Fame

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    He's turning 27 next month and will be 28 next year. Usually the athleticism decline after that age so I guess he will be a tad slower and less flexible in 2 years.
     
    #51
  2. irishnadalfan1983

    irishnadalfan1983 Professional

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    Agreed. I thought Novak struggled quite a bit over his 2 wins.

    In 2011 he was looked unbeatable - he certainly doesn't look like that at the moment.
     
    #52
  3. Bukmeikara

    Bukmeikara Hall of Fame

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    Well not quite, Nadal at IW, Murray at Rome and Cincinnati, Roger at Us Open and Del Po for Davis Cup. At that time he was just mentaly the giant of giants. Last year he last a break ahead at RG, 0-40 at 4-4 in the third in the US and he missed the chances. Imagine if Djokovic had won Us Open or RG he would be number 1 player for third straight year but still if he had won those he probably wouldnt have the perfect run after USO
     
    #53
  4. irishnadalfan1983

    irishnadalfan1983 Professional

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    I didn't mean he was actually unbeatable!

    I just don't think he looks anywhere near 2011 form - he played incredible in the final on Sunday but there was certainly patchy form over the last few weeks.
     
    #54
  5. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Off topic post detected. Steve Flink talks about Nole's level of tennis this past Sunday.

    Off topic comment detected.

    Because he is arguably the highest authority in tennis.

    Off topic post detected.

    What?

    Are talking about his level this past Sunday?

    Are you talking about his level this past Sunday?

    How do you know how Flink voted? Read this http://www.tennischannel.com/news/NewsDetails.aspx?newsid=10497

    Off topic post detected.

    Off topic post detected.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    #55
  6. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Ah no. Yes, it was an amazing level. But no. Federer 4 years past his peak beats this absolute peak Djokovic at the French Open in 4 sets - and then has 2 match points against him at the US Open. Can't see how you think he was better than peak Federer. Also Djokovic's winning %age was only the 10th best in the open era. Having said all of that - his dominance over his rivals was superb in 2011 - and I don't think we have seen that since McEnroe in 1984, Borg in 1979/1980 or Laver in 1967.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    #56
  7. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    Oh, please. Did you miss Federer exceeding his level that same year at the French Open and being a fluke return away from it at the US Open?

    Plus, Djokovic plummeted at the end of the year.
     
    #57
  8. spinovic

    spinovic Hall of Fame

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    For anyone who didn't watch tennis in 2011, you'd think Djokovic bageled the field every match. He won a lot of close matches in 2011. Close matches that he hasn't found a way to win as consistently since then. That is the only difference in 2011 and the years since. He could have easily won 3 slams last year. Could have easily won 2 or 3 in 2012, if he'd won more of the big points in the big moments. Otherwise, there is little difference in his level generally speaking.

    Given his age, I expect him to have another multiple slam year or two, so I think we'll see something like 2011 again. We may not see a 41 match win streak or see him go virtually undefeated through the US Open, but he'll likely have another year where he wins 2-3 slams and racks up multiple other titles in the process. It very well could happen this year.

    I think he's going to get his career slam this year. After that, you have to give him good odds at Wimbledon and the US Open. Especially the US Open.
     
    #58
  9. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    If we are talking about slams, I beg to differ.

    There was a profound difference between Djokovic of 2011 and the years after. Djokovic didn't need to win a lot of close matches to win slams in 2011. What close matches are you talking about?

    AO 2011- Dropped 1 set. Steamrolled Berdych, Federer, and Murray in straight sets.
    FO 2011- He got to the SF without much issues. Federer just barely took him down.
    WIM 2011- Was pushed to 4 sets in a few rounds, but never did it look like he would lose that final. He beat Nadal convincingly

    The SF against Federer at USO 2011 was the only bullet Djokovic had to dodge at the grand slam level in 2011. After that, he took down Nadal in 4.

    Your statement is only accurate if we are talking about masters events, as Djokovic edged out many close matches in those events. 2011 was a masterpiece year for him and is in no way similar to all subsequent years he has had.

    2012 was when life got very difficult for Djokovic, but I think it had more to do with his rivals stepping up their games. Murray hired Lendl, Federer gained a lot of confidence in the 2011 indoor season and brought his A game to Wimbledon, and Nadal lost his Djokovic complex after the AO 2012 final. It was the perfect storm for Djokovic's downfall .
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
    #59
  10. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    Always makes me laugh when Federer fans get so offended if anyone dares to suggest that someone other than him has played at a higher level over the years. People are entitled to their opinions you know!
     
    #60
  11. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    Is this one of the april fools?
     
    #61
  12. cc0509

    cc0509 G.O.A.T.

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    #62
  13. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

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    Who is Steve Flink ?

    More relevant is Nole girl friend -fiance --she dyed her black for the Sony M1K,, I think she is going Goth,,It must have inspired Nole to get busy and win,,no doubt about it, a game changer.


    Cheers
    3Fees :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
    #63
  14. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    Says someone with a Djokovic avatar. That's rich.

    You're using the term "opinion" rather loosely. I could say, "Vincent Spadea is the greatest player in the history of tennis," but that would be complete BS.

    Factually, nobody could logically come to the conclusion that Djokovic's 2011 was the highest level of tennis ever seen. That's just silly. The guy stunk post-USO, he was a hair away from losing to a 30-year-old Federer at the US Open, and lost to 29-year-old Federer at the French Open. And yet his level was somehow higher than, say, 2006 Federer? Where's the logic in that?
     
    #64
  15. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah. Logic people. You are right. There are opinions and opinions based on some facts and reasoning.

    I mean Nole lost at his best slam. He barely scraped trough the worst version of Fed ever and even lost to him once.

    Comparing that to 2011 when he was undefeated till FO semi. And owned Fed, Murray, even Rafa in two clay finals. I mean, come on people!

    Did he even lose a set to Fed and Murray at AO 11? Or did he even lose a set to Rafa on clay?
     
    #65
  16. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    I explained in my previous post why it's off topic

     
    #66
  17. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Nole beat Montanes in just 45 minutes today. Did Novak win any match in 2011 so quickly?
     
    #67
  18. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Possibly not but if Montanes had bothered to make any effort, that match just might have lasted a bit longer!
     
    #68
  19. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near G.O.A.T.

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    Relax folks, ...
    Fixed it for you.
     
    #69
  20. uliks

    uliks Semi-Pro

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    Rafa knows best :)

    http://www.tennis-prose.com/articles/nadal-says-djokovic-plays-superior-tennis-to-federer/

    :shock:
     
    #70
  21. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Maybe both players take very little time between points.
     
    #71
  22. Fed_Djoker_Fan

    Fed_Djoker_Fan Banned

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    #72
  23. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    Off topic post detected. Read my earlier posts on this thread.
     
    #73
  24. Anti-Fedal

    Anti-Fedal Professional

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    He was down a break against diaper rash Tomic in the third set of their QF at 1-set all. Was close to losing the fourth set aswell.
     
    #74
  25. Anti-Fedal

    Anti-Fedal Professional

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    You absolutely hit the nail on the head. Amazing no-one else has picked up on this.
     
    #75
  26. *Sparkle*

    *Sparkle* Professional

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    Didn't he say this during last year's Wimbledon too?

    To be fair, that was before he got caught wearing the illegal shoes. :lol:
     
    #76
  27. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    His consistency at bringing out his top level has dropped way down. In the slams last year he was now where close to his 2011 level.
     
    #77
  28. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, and he had a sloppy match with Baghdatis as well, but that doesn't mean anything. Djokovic won in 4. If you really want to nitpick some sets, then we can sit here and discuss all the times that has happened to great champions in the past until the cows come home. Federer struggled with Blake at the 2006 USO. Nadal was dropping sets and playing 4 hour matches against Matheiu and Hewitt at RG 2006. It happens, but his performances at the slams were 100X more dominant than they have been subsequent years. The only slam matches that DJokovic played in 2011 in which his back was totally against the wall were the 2011 RG and USO SF against Federer.

    There was nothing close about that Wimbledon and US Open final against Nadal. Nadal got broken 12 times by Djokovic in the 2011 USO final. In last years final, Djokovic got his 1st break midway in the 2nd set and he thanked the heavens as if he was a journeyman trying to avoid a triple bagel on a primetime court. So, there is a huge difference between 2011 Djokovic and Djokovic of the years after and it doesn't depend entirely on him. I think the bigger reason for his fall was Nadal getting even tougher and Murray coming into his own.
     
    #78
  29. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe Steve is on to something. Wawrinka just improved. Rafa and Nole were lucky they didn't have to face prime Wawrinka during their primes.
     
    #79
  30. Fed_Djoker_Fan

    Fed_Djoker_Fan Banned

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    Your post is off topic. So move the hell out . Why the hell would I read your gibber?
     
    #80
  31. Fed_Djoker_Fan

    Fed_Djoker_Fan Banned

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    Bumping it just for gigs
     
    #81
  32. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    2011 still stings some Rafa fans it seems, I love it :smile: Nadal may be spoiling Djokovic's prime but oh boy did Djokovic spoil Nadal's peak! :lol:
     
    #82
  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not as bad as those anti-Nadal people who seem to be stuck in 2011, to the extent that they don't recognise how Nadal responded. It's led to a situation where Djokovic, who has always had a losing head-to-head against Nadal, is portrayed as dominating Nadal.
     
    #83
  34. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    First of all Mustard I'm not stuck in 2011 and I'm not so anti-Nadal that I don't recognize how he did respond after those 7 straight losses but their H2H is a tad misleading in my opinion. Nadal leads overall 22-18 but since the beginning of 2008 when Nole won his first slam[and since the so called "strong era" began] they're actually tied at 16-16 and obviously since 2011 Nole leads 11-6. Nadal is great but it's obvious that in recent years, and especially just recently, Djokovic is in the ascendancy.
     
    #84
  35. Vensai

    Vensai Professional

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    I wasn't here in 2011, so I wouldn't know. :neutral:
    But I definitely wouldn't say that Djokovic is dominating Nadal.
     
    #85
  36. phnx90

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    People are always saying he's playing better than he did in 2011 every year or every other tournament until he loses.

    Not saying he isn't playing well, but this just smells of hyperbole.
     
    #86
  37. 5555

    5555 Hall of Fame

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    In the post #72 you've stated "with his increased level he stopped winning slams". It's off topic because this thread is about his level of tennis in the Miami final and after.
     
    #87
  38. irishnadalfan1983

    irishnadalfan1983 Professional

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    It is not misleading - it is fact. they have played 40 times - Nadal has won 22 - NOTHING misleading about that.
     
    #88
  39. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    But Novak was in nappies in 2006-2007 just like Nadal was those years on grass.
     
    #89
  40. irishnadalfan1983

    irishnadalfan1983 Professional

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    Don't care - I stick to facts.

    Tis 22 - 18. Deal with it.
     
    #90
  41. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    I do deal with it but there's nothing wrong with breaking down a H2H over a certain time span rather than always overall. Why so aggressive?
     
    #91
  42. irishnadalfan1983

    irishnadalfan1983 Professional

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    No problem with so! Djoko has been on top recently.

    I just hate the hypotheticals people get into around here...

    If Fed played Rafa more on HC then H2H would be different....

    If Rafa was not injured in 2009 then Fed would not have not have won RG...

    These games can go on forever!
     
    #92
  43. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Djokovic in 2007 was a world class player. He won Miami and Montreal, was runner-up at the US Open, and a semi finalist at two other majors.
     
    #93
  44. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I feel like 2011 was a turning point in the captivating Djoko/Nadal rivalry. Until the end of 2010, it was 16-7 in favor of Nadal. A true domination as Mustard calls it . Since 2011, it's 11-6 Djoko. Quite a different story. Last year, after the USO final, it looked like Nadal was ready to take a decisive edge back ( on both clay and hard). However, he lost their last 3 encounters. In the end, for this particular rivalry, one HAS TO take surfaces into account. Saying that Nadal has always led the head to head vs Djoko is every bit as misleading as saying Djoko dominates Nadal. Truth is: Nadal has ALWAYS led the h to h on clay and Djoko has ALWAYS led the h to h on hard (or almost always since Nadal won their first match on hc: IW 2007). Since 2011 Djoko is 7-2 vs Nadal on hard but Nadal is still leading on clay (4-3). Before 2011, Nadal was 9-0 on clay (!) and Djoko 7- 5 on hard.
    So, the main change is that Djoko found a way to occasionally defeat Nadal on clay (and in best of 5), something that he couldn't do at all before 2011.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
    #94
  45. Djokovic2011

    Djokovic2011 G.O.A.T.

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    I know but a lot of Nadal fans claim that he was in nappies back then so I just thought hell, why not say the same thing about Djokovic? :)
     
    #95
  46. uliks

    uliks Semi-Pro

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    Physically wasn't matured yet. In that regard was different league pre 2011 in comparison with Federer and Nadal...
     
    #96
  47. Ramesh848

    Ramesh848 Banned

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    lol... true! nadal was in his absolute peak in 2011-2012 still lost 3 straight finals over 2 surfaces. that makes me laugh for hour. this man can't even overcome lower tier great Djoko in his peak! fact is Djoko at best >>>> nadal at best on any surface possible, Miami demolition shows that.
     
    #97
  48. Ramesh848

    Ramesh848 Banned

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    world class player with 0 stamina. if he'd started gluten free bakery in 2007 I doubt nadal is double digit slam champion now!
     
    #98

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