Stop with the Serena is greatest nonsense

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by McEnborg, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    riiight, it not like tennis commentators have a vested interest in hyping up the best player on the women's' tour or anything like that... :rolleyes: :confused:

    plus each said the same about Venus in the early 2000's, Pancho Gonzalez as well...
     
    #51
  2. Talker

    Talker Hall of Fame

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    Graff had it tough back then.
    Those other players near the top back then didn't just show up once in awhile like they do now.
    They showed up in almost every tournament.
    Evert, Martina and Seles weren't just there in matches, they were always ready to play and had a very strong mental game on top of it.

    Today the woman players seem to hit a peak for a short period and then at other tournaments don't look ready to play their best.

    What happened to the tournament hard players who gave the best they had for years?
     
    #52
  3. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Good post Steffi-forever.

    The Tennis Channel has Serena ranked #6.

    1 Steffi Graf*
    2 Martina Navratilova*
    3 Margaret Court*
    4 Chris Evert*
    5 Billy Jean King*
    6 Serena Williams*

    I'm pretty sure most unbiased experts/historians have Graf & Martina as #1 and #2.
     
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  4. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Graf only had one tough opponent but she was someone Gunther Parche couldn't handle.




    Graf should be ranked where Monica Seles is, in the GOAT list.
     
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  5. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    While other women tennis players worry about looking good, Serena is pumping iron in the gym, and she's clearly more gifted genetically, I mean look at her, she's physically way above the rest. You combine that with her tennis skills and there is no match for her right now. The only time she loses is when she has a mental meltdown. There only reason we don't see more top black women or men players is because it's so damn expensive to become and stay a tennis pro, so there are too few candidates in the first place.
     
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  6. SassyRamirez

    SassyRamirez Banned

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    Yawn, Serena's obviously a gifted athlete, but so are many other female tennis players, a lot of them particularly from or around Serena's generation.

    Her athletic gifts are definitely a part of her success, just as they are with Graf/Venus/Henin/Clijsters or even the likes of Dementieva/Kuznetsova/Mauresmo, but IMO they're not the sole or even primary reason.

    You're right though that right now female tennis is quite lacking in gifted athletes, which is sad because the previous generation was just bursting full of them. I don't know what's going on, maybe just a slump? Or maybe other female sports are becoming popular and driving some away?

    Anyways regarding the thread, I definitely think Serena is the greatest in terms of peak level of play (on grass and hard). The serve is really what elevates her to that status in my opinion, it's just on a whole different level from any other female.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
    #56
  7. THE FIGHTER

    THE FIGHTER Hall of Fame

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    SERENA
    IS
    GOAT​

    april fools​
     
    #57
  8. McEnborg

    McEnborg Rookie

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    #58
  9. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Every few weeks a similar thread pops up and people get worked up all over again. But it's pretty simple, and depends on how you define "greatest":

    In the context of GOAT, it's about accomplishments, and in that sense, no, Serena is not the greatest.

    But in the context of most capable player and most dominant over her peers (when she is motivated), Serena takes top spot.

    Simply speaking, IMO the gap between her at her best, and the rest of her peers at their best, is larger than it was for any previous great.
     
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  10. SassyRamirez

    SassyRamirez Banned

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    I disagree, the gap between Graf and the rest of her peers outside of Seles was pretty huge (and this extended to ALL surfaces), which is why people talk about her competing in such a weak era and having no competition.

    Serena's gap from 2008-now comes close if not matching it though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
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  11. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Graf had very weak competition compared to Serena, and even then the gap wasnt as big. Gabriela Sabatini, a player who made 18 slam semis but managed a mere 1 slam title and 3 slam finals out of all that, beat her 11 times (in 40 matches, but still over a quarter) and took Graf to 3 sets (or did better than that, aka straight sets win) in about 70% of their matches. Little Sanchez Vicario had a similar record. Except for Henin, Hingis, Venus, and Capriati, Serena is far more dominant over all her rivals than that and over much better players than Sanchez or Sabatini like Clijsters, Davenport, Sharapova, Azarenka, Mauresmo, and others.
     
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  12. jrs

    jrs Professional

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    I would say the previous generation of Tennis Ladies - Tennis was their main focus.

    This generation - most of these women seem to show up for some tournaments but is quite focused on other ventures outside Tennis.

    This would explain the inconsistent performance on the court.
     
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  13. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Who is saying that seriously? Guys like McEnroe say it just to hype up the current era. A number of people have said that Serena has the "highest, most unbeatable level of play" for a woman which may be true. But that is not the same thing as being GOAT. All serious analysts know that Graf, Navratilova and Evert are greater than her.

    I do think Sharapova is a threat to Serena, she was a set and a break up the other week. She is getting ever closer to beating Serena again and it will happen soon one of these days.
     
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  14. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    Maybe in another 9 years? LOL

    Seriously though, you could look at it that way or you could say that Maria played the best she has in a long while and she still couldn't manage to win.

    And on top of that she lost the 3rd set 6-0.

    That's pretty bad for the #2 player in the world.

    I'm not so sure a win against Serena will ever happen again.
     
    #64
  15. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    This is a reasonable position.

    The problem is when people like NadalAgassi (a clear Serena fanboy) try to make out she is the GOAT even using accomplishments, by listing all previous greats and finding some way to diminish their achievements. Actually I think he somehow justifies Serena on a par with Graf in terms of accomplishments, which is obviously silly.
     
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  16. nat75

    nat75 Rookie

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    The reason why Sabatini won 1slam was that she had to face up to three tennis greats to get into a final while she would have to face just one if she played nowadays. And why reaching 18 slams semifinals is considered a weakness instead of a testament of remarkable consistency?
     
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  17. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    serena hasn't retired yet... she'll get there...

    who is going to stop her?

    - sharapova? lol ...
    - stephens? hehe ...
    - azarenka? rarely ...

    Her real rivals are her health and her age. That's who she's competing against now.
     
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  18. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    This is the weakest WTA era ever.
     
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  19. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    It's a catch-22. If she's far ahead of the field, the competition was weak. If she wasn't that dominant, she wasn't that good.
     
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  20. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    there are alot of good to great players this era- sharapova, vika, radwanska, up and down kuzzy, up and down kvitova, sometimes venus. so it wouldn't be a catwalk either.
     
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  21. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    it's not that hard. if she played in an era with 5 or 6 great players in the prime like the 00's then she would get respect.
     
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  22. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Nick Bolliteiri referred to Sabatini in an early 2000s Tennis Magazine newsletter saying that someone playing a finesse game like Sabatini then wouldnt even be in the top 40 as that didnt cut it in the modern game. Draw your own conclusions.

    I guarantee you one thing, Serena would have nowhere near the problems with Sabatini that Graf did.
     
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  23. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    To be fair, Bolletieri is the shepherd of many brainless ballbashers of today...Just look at the type of players his academy produces: Sharapova, Vaidisova, etc. It's no wonder old saint Nick is dissing the finesse game--to promote the newer power game that has largely taken over women's tennis.

    Justine Henin had a "finesse" game that won her 7 grand slams in one of the strongest eras ever, although to be fair she wouldn't have had near that much success if she, too, didn't have the power component of the game.

    So Bolletieri is both right and wrong. Finesse can still thrive in today's game, you just need to be able to hit with some authority to back it up. Floaters and slices are going to get completely pummeled these days...
     
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  24. MJ4U

    MJ4U New User

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    What a silly comment, I wouldn't expect her, Graf, BJK, Seles..... to beat any adult male and if they did it would be an abberation. Geez! :rolleyes:
     
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  25. Vanhool

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    Cakewalk not catwalk :) you mistyped. Not correcting to be a jerk (maybe I am anyway), but for people who don't speak English fluently.
     
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  26. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Fair points but do you think Sabatini's game for instance would have been effective the last 10 years? I dont think it would have. Not only did she lack the power, but her serve was too weak and easily broken, and she also wasnt quite enough, a good enough defender, or mentally tough enough. Her overly topsin shots often dropped shorter and were perfect height to be clobbered. While she had alot of variety her shot selection and strategy was also often poor. Someone like Sanchez Vicario I would even give a better chance to be successful today as she was one of the best defensive players in history, and would fight, scrap, bring out anything in her arsenal, and try and do anything to win. Like Wozniacki and Radwanska she could also play all day without missing a ball, but she had far more game than Wozniacki does.
     
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  27. Talker

    Talker Hall of Fame

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    Serena needs quite a few more wins on tour, not near enough weeks at #1.

    She's in the top ten and has time but for now she is still has to take a back seat to Graff, Martina, Evert.
     
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  28. AngieB

    AngieB Hall of Fame

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    What about during and right after World War II? Some would even argue well into the 1950's.

    AngieB
     
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