Strange Andy Murray Victim Theory

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Riosfan, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. Riosfan

    Riosfan Banned

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    I watched Murray vs. Robredo last night. He just blew out an inform Robredo in set one. He was moving UNBELIEVABLE traciking down some sick gets, showing power, he looked brutally strong and sharp. Devastating serving, hsi serve is improved. I'm thinking, this guy might win two slams this year, this guy is a beast. it's his time right now.

    Then Robredo starts playing out of his mind, serving incredible, the best I've ever seen him play really. He wins the match. And it was so similar to previous matches by Murray. He runs into a guy who all the sudden starts playing the best he's ever played in his life.

    Murray lost to Tsonga two years ago in Melbourne, the year Jo made the final, his best week ever. Murray lost to Verdasco in Melbourne last year, again it was the best week of Verdasco's life.

    Last year at Wimbledon, Roddick suddenly starts playing the best tennis of his lfe and beats him. US Open, I was at the match, Murray was winning but aall the sudden Cilic starts playing insanely great tennis and turns the match around and beats Murray.

    It so often seems when Murray is playing slam worthy tennis, he has the misfortune to run into a very good player who plays out of his mind and takes his game to a new higher level.
    Maybe it's Murray's game prone to bringing out the best in people. Maybe Murray gets too defensive under pressure of a tight match. Maybe Murray lacks killer instinct. He looke dlike a #1 player in set one vs. Robredo.

    Murray looks so strong and fit and quicker as anyone ever. it's all there. maybe the pressure and expectation from his coutnry is a slight factor which is hampering him. that could be the minute difference.

    Also Murray plays a little flat emotionally, he might need to be more expressive. he contains his emotions too much. Also in his press conf interviews he totally contains it and presents himself as boring as hell. maybe , that could be a minute factor that's holding him back. I don't know it's bizarre, this guy is a monster and should be winning these matches and slams NOW. These guys should not all be playing their career best tennis suddenly out of nowhere at his expense. he should be playing his career best tennis against them.

    Murray is a victime here of this bizarre dilemma. hopefully he'll find the solution, he's so close to being the best. you can see it.
     
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  2. djokovicgonzalez2010

    djokovicgonzalez2010 G.O.A.T.

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    Robredo for Dark Horse!
     
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  3. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Murray typically plays defensive tennis so there is always the possibility that a more aggressive player can get hot and take over the match.
     
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  4. Marshredder

    Marshredder Semi-Pro

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    Murrays one of those strange players. You look at his game on an individual basis, and yeah, you think this guys strong, could win some slams.

    But then you take a look back and see that tennis is in a very strong era, suddenly this year we have Murray, Delpo, Federer, Nadal, Soderling, Davydenko and Djockovic who all look strong enough to win slams, so suddenly you start to doubt it.

    Its going to be a good year for tennis!
     
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  5. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

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    Time for Mr. Muzza to ask himself some questions when it's actually Robredo being the most aggressive player during a match!
     
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  6. _maxi

    _maxi Banned

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    Murray needs to play more like he did against nadal in the 08 us open.. very agressive. He can do it great, he has the strokes and the net touch to do it.
     
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  7. chanee

    chanee Banned

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    It was an obvious choke. No other reason why you would lose a match from winning a set 6-1.
     
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  8. i suck at tennis

    i suck at tennis Rookie

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    Riosfan I was actually thinking about this last night as well... During the first set I couldn't help but notice how much Murray had improved his serve in the off season, he looked incredible... all I could think was "Wow, Murray is definitely going to be a force this year". I quit watching because he appeared to be running away with it and I had to take care of my sick wife.. When I resumed it was late in the 2nd set and I couldnt believe it.
     
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  9. miyagi

    miyagi Professional

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    Murray is way too passive for me, his normal game will beat most of the tour except for when it gets tight!

    I definately think he has the game to win alot more than he has but I don't think he recognises when to go from defense to offense well enough but he is still young this could all change!
     
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  10. RoddickAce

    RoddickAce Hall of Fame

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    I pretty much agree with your post (OP) except the last part about him not being very expressive.

    Imo, Murray has the tools to not play a counterpunching game, but he prefers this and it allows his opponents to really dictate play and control the match outcome. So when his opponents play well and aren't imploding from errors, Murray might be in trouble. I think Roddick said something similar about his own game in 2008 after he lost to Kohlschreiber, about how his opponent played amazing, but his own(Roddick) game allowed him to play amazing.

    He is expressive enough imo, both positively and negatively. (i.e. Screaming or waving his racquet furiously when losing points; screaming "come on!" after every winner he hits or UE his opponent hits usually near the end of sets)
     
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  11. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    ha!
    Quoted for truth!!

    :roll:

    Righttt..how long have you been watching tennis?A player's perfomance can drop between different sets,and his opponent's raise.Tennis 101.
     
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  12. Vyse

    Vyse Semi-Pro

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    too defensive, lets people get in rythm than hes toast
     
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  13. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    I don't know how to explain it either. Robredo was zoning out there, honestly. Tommy actually played a pretty good 1st set, but Murray was better. Then Tommy's level went up a bit, and Murray's dipped a bit, and that was the difference.

    That's the best I've seen Robredo play. His FH was Gonzo like at times, and no that's not an exaggeration. Murray's a bit like Nadal circa 2005-2006 in that respect - if a guy gets hot against him, he has a hard time getting more aggressive and being able to withstand it.

    He can't have these peaks and valleys within matches if he wants to win a slam.
     
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  14. Funbun

    Funbun Professional

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    Maybe he needs to add more "punch" to the "counterpunch".
     
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  15. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Murray lost concentration during an exho. It would have been no big deal had Murray won and it's no big deal that he lost.
     
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  16. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    it isn't a big deal,since it was at hopman cup that noone cares about.But it is still very suprising.And then you got people start threads like this one.:mrgreen:
     
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  17. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Ain't nobody more surprised than me Mal! :)

    It's a talking point - no doubt; but if anything, it'll probably do Murray a bit of good - it will be act as a reminder what happens if he loses concentration and/or goes passive, it'll also dampen down any hype that might've been developing.
     
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  18. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    Easy and logical explanation:

    Murray plays with a frame with > 400 SW.

    This gives him a big advantage when he's fresh. It allows him to control rallies and hit aggressive accurate returns of heavy balls.

    The problem of playing with a 400 SW frame starts to show up later in the match. It usually shows up in the serve. When the arm starts to get tired from serving with a really heavy frame, the serve starts to get erratic. Then his first serve percentage starts to drop. And he starts to play his second serve safer and slower, which gives his opponent more confidence.

    I know this can happen because I play my best tennis with a high swingweight frame. Mine is about 367 - not as high as Murray's, but I only have time to practice my serve about twice a month lately (so my serving arm is not in serving shape), so I have the same problem Murray has when I try to play a full match.
     
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  19. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    No and no.

    Murray refused to switch his game against Roddick. He was passive and Roddick punished him.

    Against Cilic he was just out of sorts, again letting his opponent dominate the rallies.
     
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  20. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Murray wasn't passive per se in that match - he hit a mountain of winners - way more than ARod. He was passive on the big points though - no doubt about that.
     
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  21. sh@de

    sh@de Hall of Fame

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    Are you really sure about that? I mean, I'm not doubting you or anything, but surely Murray, as a pro, would have figured out that the racquet is his problem out by now? Nadal didn't take long during the off season to fix his forehand being too loopy. Murray's had the whole year...
     
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  22. malakas

    malakas Banned

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    Yes,I was shocked as well since I never expected that from Boredo.

    lol I bet you're one of those over optimistic guys rob,to think that this will change Bodo's opinion.;) but sure,maybe andy will use this at his benefit.Maybe even into a slam final.who knows? (*knock on wood* :p)
     
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  23. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

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    Does any Murray fan give a crap, seriously?

    Warm up events and exhibitions don't really tell the whole story on how the player will play in the big tournament comming up. Murray might not even play Robredo in AO.

    Murray would probably win if they met in AO, Robredo isn't good enough to beat the top guys in slams to be honest.
     
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  24. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

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    Cant believe Boredo beat Murray. Murray mustve played really bad the last sets.
     
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  25. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    I'm gutted. The Hopman Cup was my big hope for Murray this year.

    But seriously, of course not. I said to Blink last after Murray pumped Disco Tommy 6-1 in the 1st that it was only an exho. It's still only an exho now Murray has lost the match. Murray got some decent warm up matches for the AO on AO surface using AO balls and played 7 good sets and a rotten set and a half. The week served its purpose.
     
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  26. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    He wasn't great - but Tommy was playing out of his skin - no kidding; his forehand was like Gonzo's for a time last night:shock:
     
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  27. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    That's nice of you Mal - hope it works and he makes one this year.

    Couldn't believe Bodo's piece *facepalm* I thought they might've toned it down after this time last year but no such luck.
     
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  28. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    Murray's game is what allows players back in the match.

    He often has a very good strategic choice in the first set and implements it well. Come the second set and he falls back on this pusher like game that, if the opponent does not self-implode by making too many UE's, allows him back in the match and to gain confidence.
     
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  29. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    Bullseye. Agreed.
     
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  30. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    "Suddenly I see
    This is what I wanna be
    Suddenly I see
    Why the hell it means so much to me"


    Suddenly?

    Oh I see watchyou mean, The Gods ganged against Murray and suddenly he was cursed.
     
    #30
  31. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

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    I think Roddick's form at Wimbledon 2009 was a tad overrated. Except the final obviously. Roddick wasn't playing 'tennis of his life' in the semifinals, or quaterfinals to be honest. He served great but wasn't extraordinary fromt the backcourt.

    The likes of Tsonga and Verdasco played really well but only because they were allowed to do what they do best; hit winners against defensive players.

    Cilic's form was overrated too; Murray, even on a bad day should be beating cilic in 4 sets at the most.
     
    #31
  32. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    His volleys were extraordianry v Murray. In fact I'd say he volleyed better in the semi than he did in the final.
     
    #32
  33. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal's alltime biggest choker. He won 6 slams but lost to freaking Davydenko at DOHA by a big choke, because he won a set 6-0. Stop talking **** about choking all the time. Players rarely choke. You know what was a choke? Coria at the FO. THAT was a choke. Other than that, I hardly remember any big chokes in the men's game. Big turnarounds, multiple, but never a real choke imo.
     
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  34. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Just give it time, it happend to Nadal a lot and still will. Once you get to number one everything is alot easier with the draws. Andy will have a HC slam some day, and when Nadal and Federer are gone his chances for Wim will be much much higher, but he will have Delpo to contend with their.
     
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  35. Blinkism

    Blinkism Legend

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    Yeah, I doubt it'll worry Murray as much as it'll energize Robredo.

    Still, it is a familiar sight.

    Just sayin'
     
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  36. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Can't argue with the facts.
     
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  37. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Exactly. It's really nothing more, nothing less.

    Murray really seems to have an ego about being able to run players ragged, make all these big hitters miss, and generally frustrate them. The opponents start to go for even more because they are tired, and because they feel they need to force the issue. Murray keeps up the retrieving, and throws in some net play and a few power shots and wins - and looks like a tennis genius doing so.

    But, the situation can be reversed. Murray gets a lot of balls back and the other player needs to really work for it. But, they get hot and instead of missing, actually make enough big shots to get a lead. By then, their confidence is sky high and they start hitting even better, as the pace of Murray's regular groundstroke isn't really bothering them. Murray, meanwhile, seems to think that his opponent can't keep this up forever, so he keeps on just getting balls back, doesn't force the issue. He may make a mini run, but the opponent keeps on smacking enough balls in, and Murray loses - and looks like an idiot doing so.

    One other thing. Yes, Murray is in fantastic shape, but the gap between him and several other of the top players in terms of fitness is by no means that big. When he plays that defensive, get-everything-back style, he does make his opponent tired, but it also has to be tiring to him. This is why I think he gets into trouble in Slams in best of 5 set matches. Once both players are tired, the others guys start unloading and Murray's defensive skills may be just a bit slower than earlier in the match.

    Of course, Murray is an outstanding player, and in MOST matches, he'll still win. But, with his style of play, he's always susceptible to lose to the "hot" lower-ranked player or, obviously, the other top guys.

    AO should be very interesting in regards to Murray. He is talented enough to win it, but will he have one of his "bad" matches.
     
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  38. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

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    Yes, but i'm talking from the backcourt; Roddick hasn't played big since 05
     
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  39. chanee

    chanee Banned

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    Murray has shown however that he can handle big hitters when both the number 1 and number 2 in the world can't. Such as Del Potro. Murray seems to handle Del Potro well. He plays with a lot of variety and uses the slice very well and Del Potro can't handle it. To add, the fact that Murray is one of (if not the best) returner on tour really prevents Del Potro from finding his rhythm. Which he has against Federer and Nadal.

    So i really don't get this theory that Murray struggles in slams only because of "big-hitters". From my perspective, Andy Murray's problem is more mental than anything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
    #39
  40. chanee

    chanee Banned

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    You're comparing Robredo to Davydenko? lol.
     
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  41. Jamesm182

    Jamesm182 Rookie

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    I agree with the poster who said that Murrays game allows people back into matches.

    When he clearly has the upper hand and has the opponent nearly beaten. When people who are big hitters. Verdasco, Cilic, etc he is in trouble.

    I watched him at Davis cup, and even against two lesser known polish players he looked to grind out the matches instead of outclassing them. Typical counterpunching display. (although he beat them easily enough)

    I'm from the U.K and typically don't watch his matches. Although i can still appreciate what a great player he is.

    As far as slams go, i think he won't win one this year either, as any of the top 3 and either delpo or davydenko, could put him away.

    I also read in a British magazine that its been said that if he had a bigger forehand "Weapon" he would have already won some slams.
     
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  42. Jamesm182

    Jamesm182 Rookie

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    Murrayh is a good returner yes. Best returner on tour.. I don't think so. I respect your opinion, but IMO that would go to nalbandian
     
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  43. chanee

    chanee Banned

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    But Andy Murray has shown that he can beat an on fire Del Potro on a regular basis, when the top 2 players in the world cannot. Murray beat Davydenko on clay earlier in the year. And in Montreal. Murray's a bad matchup for Davydenko.

    I honestly do believe that the 'big hitters' excuse used for his loses is wrong. it's in his head. And to a certain extent his passive game.

    Murray even beat Cilic on the slow clay of RG. He's a big hitter, and Murray is obviously poor on clay. So how did Cilic not manage to win?
     
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  44. Jamesm182

    Jamesm182 Rookie

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    You make some good points there. Can't disagree with the results. I would argue that del potro is a different player now though thanks to the US open experience, and has more faith in his game.

    Murray tends to attempt to over strategise , imo.

    If anyone but Federer or Nadal were to win a slam this year I'd put my money on Djokovic or Davydenko with Dark Horse Nalbandian (if he could sort his head out)
     
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  45. chanee

    chanee Banned

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    Nalbandian?? You could argue that his backhand is better than Murray's. But return of serve? I disagree. Davydenko's a better returner than Nalby IMO.
     
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  46. Jamesm182

    Jamesm182 Rookie

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    Both are great backhands.
    Its a weird trend of top players that seem to have better backhands or prefer their backhands. I saw an interview with Djokovic that said he preferred his backhand. I know Agassi sure loved the backhand dtl.

    Yes Davydenko's return very good. He made light work of Karlovic the other night. He's really impressive atm. Certainly the in form player on the tour.

    I still doubt that Murray will win a slam this year. Have to wonder whether other countries put this kind of pressure on players. Mind you, its not like we have any other hopes. Think our best bet would be to "adopt" someone like we did with Rusedski haha
     
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  47. chanee

    chanee Banned

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    That's exactly my point. Murray beat the Del Potro at the WTF who was on fire (as Federer could not). Del Potro is a great player, he will win many slams in the future.

    Again, i don't understand why you would have Nalbandian winning a slam? He's just come back from a hip surgery, and even prior to that he couldn't win a slam when the field was much weaker. Regarding Djokovic, i feel at the slams he will struggle. Eventhough after his decent run in some of the MS events.
     
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  48. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

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    So "mental giant" Nadal chocked today? When you lose a set your supposed to rethink your gameplan, not do the same thing you did in the first, or obviously the result will be the same
     
    #48
  49. chanee

    chanee Banned

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    Davydenko's playing superbly. It's just that can he handle playing over 5 sets?
     
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  50. Jamesm182

    Jamesm182 Rookie

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    haha maybe this is my player preferences coming out.

    Murray doesn't really appeal to me. I met him a coupler of years ago at a local big indoor training facility, had a hit with a group of us. Jamie was much nicer lol.

    Guess we will have to wait and see. Fair points regarding Nalbanidan, think the break will have done him good , and hes turned over federe and nadal fairly consistently.

    Personally i'll be looking to see further improvement from verdasco. especially against top 10 players, and after working with Agassi and Reyes
     
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