String stiffness by the numbers

Discussion in 'Strings' started by anubis, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Hi, I'm a little confused as to what the stiffness rating is for strings, as far as the mains and crosses combined.

    If i go to the TW learning center and look up the following two strings:

    Tourna BHB7 17
    Dunlop DNA 16

    and run reports on them, then I find that their stiffness ratings are:

    BHB7
    Low tension: 159
    medium tension: 175

    DNA
    Low: 123
    medium: 147

    Now, if I am going to do a hybrid in order to maximize comfort, I see that even though there is disparity between the two numbers, do I combine them or average them out to find what the overall stiffness is for the whole string job?

    For instance, if I'm going with low tension, then the two combined have a stiffness of 282. But their average is 141.

    So which is it? Adding them up or averaging them?

    Either way, it sounds very tempting to do BHB7 mains and DNA 16 crosses. The difference in stiffness (whether combined or averaged) is staggering.

    Thanks
     
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  2. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    In a hybrid, I usually like a stiff main and a soft cross. But from there, I take the two strings separately. A stiffer multi or a syn gut cross I'd string 3 lbs. higher than the poly mains. For a soft multi cross like DNA, I'd string it 5 lbs. higher than the poly mains. The setup that I've had the best results with so far is Cyber Flash 1.25 @48 / Hexy Fiber 16 @53 on a Dunlop MuscleWeave 95. Unfortunately, this setup burnt my wrist a bit because I wasn't using a vibe damp. It plays great though. I've been out for two weeks now and I'm gonna try it again tonight, with a vibe damp this time.
     
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  3. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    A vibration dampener does NOT improve comfort or reduce shock. The idea that it reduces shock is an urban myth due largely to marketing. Call something a "shock absorber" and people think it absorbs shock.

    These little pieces of rubber simply change the sound of the strings.

    Over all string bed stiffness, string density, head size, frame stiffness, static weight, and swingweight determine comfort and arm health (besides technique which can be influenced by these physical factors).
     
    #3
  4. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I just strung up Wilson gut with Ytex ProTour crosses. It definitely feels much more comfy with the dampener in there.
     
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  5. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Thanks TimothyO I get all kind of funny looks when I tell people the same thing. :confused:

    Q: "Why don't you use a vibration dampener if you have Tennis Elbow issues? "

    A: "They only dampen the string vibration, not the actual frame vibration"

    http://www.tennis.com/gear/2013/02/ask-pro-shop-string-dampeners/46327/#.US0pURmHbwM

    I don't use them, but I hate when I hear one player tell another one "Your vibration dampener isn't allowed to touch your cross strings" Really ? Like that is going to affect the match.

    And here's Richard Kaufman's (Director of USTA Officials) answer about how many can be used and the placement of them.

    http://www.usta.com/Improve-Your-Game/Rules/Feature/0507_Vibration_Dampeners/
     
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  6. g4driver

    g4driver Hall of Fame

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    Did you use one or four dampeners? top/bottom and sides? ;) It's magic. All magic. hahaha

    Waiting for my EXO Tour ESP 100 this fall while my TE and shoulder heal. :)

    And how did you like the B5E? I just got another reel last week.
     
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  7. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I tested out my TE tonight with a gut/poly hybrid just hitting some serves and on the wall. Still felt some minor aches on a few shots. I'm scheduled to play in 5 days but I'll cancel that if I'm not pain free by then. As for the B5E, that playtest may get pushed into summer as I try and heal up from the TE. I know I should have just done all gut but I had to experience at least once what everyone loves with gut mains and smooth poly crosses. The setup is fairly comfortable, it just feels strange to me. For whatever reason, the poly in the mains seems to be my favorite arrangement in a hybrid.
     
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  8. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Averaging.
     
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  9. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Hi Mike -

    Slightly OT, but .... seems like your TE goes away with rest, but then often returns once you start playing again. Been there my brutha. One thing thing I have learned the hard way is that if you don't build up the problem area muscles during the time away from the court then the issue is likely to return just as soon as you start hitting again. In fact with no exercise at all those muscles will atrophy. I've had pretty good success with first the red, then the green and blue twist bars. Some of the yoga arm stabilization poses are very usefull as well. Just a basic plank pose can do wonders if practiced everyday.

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
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  10. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I started doing some strengthening exercises 2 days ago but it was probably still too early. I'm definitely squeezing the racket too tight especially on forehands which I need to stop doing. My right forearm right now would make Popeye jealous it is so big. For some reason, the flexbar works better for GE on me. TE it does not seem to help as much.
     
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  11. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    Hello Again Anubis :)

    When you look at the stiffness digits in isolation of other factors the results can be deceiving. I suggest you to factor in the tension loss as well. Sometimes the string digits will read as being very soft, but only because the string lost so much initial tension tension after stringing, and before any test impacts have even occurred. Take Topspin CyberFlash for example. It's no wonder that string tests and and plays soft, because by the time you hit with it, its likely lost 25-30 lbs just sitting in your bag. See screen grabs below, and notice the column called "Actual Pre-Impact Tension".

    [​IMG]

    ..

    [​IMG]

    ..

    [​IMG]

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
    #11
  12. corners

    corners Legend

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    Jack, what happened to your super-awsome, super-controlled head to head to head to head soft copoly cross shootout? Did the mosquito win out?
     
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  13. ChicagoJack

    ChicagoJack Hall of Fame

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    It's actually in progress right now :) I have three frames strung up. All with gut mains, one with Co-Focus, one with Mosquito bite, and the last with the new Yonex Poly Tour Pro. The trouble is I've not had any real hitting time, just been playing matches. I only have about 15 minutes of warm up, and so I'm trading among the three in this little time slot just to get a basic feel for the difs. Nothing conclusive yet, other than I've ditched my last favorite ( Polyfibre Hitec 18 ) for Mosquito Bite and that's what I've chosen to play my matches with as of late. I will post as I get a better feel for the difs btwn them. http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442868

    Funny story, my last dubs match we won pretty easily, 1 and 3. One of the guys on the other team admitted that he was completely pysched out before the match ever started, when he saw me take my three frames out of plastic bags, and then proceeded to warm up with all three. So at least in this instance, equipment can make a difference LOL.

    The winner of this three way battle will go up against Gosen sidewinder and Gosen polymaster. I've decided not to test all five at the same time, because I simply dont have enough quality experimental type court time these days.

    -Jack
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
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  14. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    If you have access to a lat machine I would suggest doing very light tricep press downs at a slow speed. There was a thread about this by tt warrior, it is using very light weights at a really slow pace like 8 seconds down and 8 seconds up.

    This helped me for sore elbow and some knee pain, I would highly recommend this method. To me it works much better than the flexbar, or anything else I tried.
     
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  15. corners

    corners Legend

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    Good thinkin, cuz if you start showing and warming up with five frames your opponents are just gonna zip up their bags and forfeit. Looking forward to your full report. Have fun!
     
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  16. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    OK, thanks for the tip.
     
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  17. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I would string it up and play test it. I would string as low as you can and still control your shots. Also, string the co-poly 3-5 lbs higher than the multi.

    Stiffness ratings are good but you really will not know until you play test it.
     
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