Stringing Below the Grommet's Plane: Inaccurate?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by ryohazuki222, May 5, 2008.

  1. ryohazuki222

    ryohazuki222 Semi-Pro

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    Recently, I've been researching the Wise 2086. A big turn-off to me is that I would lose my 360°. Considering that the #1 factor in switching to the Wise is simply to make life easier... I am 100% not willing to give up my 360° rotation.

    That said, I've been doing a lot of research involving modifications in order to make the machine (Revo4k) and the Wise work together and still give me 360° rotation. Though I can't quite find anyone with my particular setup that has done this, others with different machines have... It seems like an easy fix. I'd probably just add some washers between the table top and base. However, this incurs a separate problem: the Wise tension head's linear gripper is horizontal. Unlike, the Revo's slanted gripper, the Wise gripper is not meant for this kind of use. Can anyone with this type of setup chime in? So far, the solution I have to this problem is adding my own "Diablo" or nosecone like someone did on the photostringer site. Any opinions on this?

    This still leaves one last problem. According to Herb, the Wise was not designed for this kind of use and he says it would lead to inaccuracy. Apparently, the way the load cells were designed involved only linear pulls and they cannot compensate for the vertical discrepancies. But does this really matter? Opinions on this? Someone else started a similar thread in the GSS boards a while ago: http://www.*slamstringers.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1167277704/8#8 (replace * with "grand")

    After reading that thread, I researched on the TW boards a bit and found a thread with some very interesting insights: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=56186&page=2

    So I guess to sum up my questions:

    • Anyone modify their Revo4k+Wise for 360° rotation?
    • Does the plane at which the gripper pulls the tension in relation to the stringbed's plane have an effect on overall tension?
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
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  2. YULitle

    YULitle Hall of Fame

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    The angle of pull DOES have an effect on overall tension. The friction of the string against the grommet wall decreases the actual tension pulled vs. reference tension. This particular issue is silly IMO, in that, it doesn't take into account the fact that grommet wall friction happens REGARDLESS of tension head height. On outer mains and almost ALL crosses the angle changes, increasing friction/decreasing actual tension.


    MY FEELING: It doesn't matter. I've said this a million times and I'll say it till the end. What matters is consistency. String it the same way, every time, and everyone is happy. There is NO VALUE in having every individual main/cross at the same tension UNLESS that's how you like it. It isn't a mythical setup to be obtained through rigorous stringing techniques and ancient wisdom. It won't start glowing with a golden aura if you achieve exactly the same tension on all main/crosses. It just WON'T. It isn't somehow better or worse. I don't know how to explain this anymore clearly. The only thing that matters is to string it up the same way, with the same calibrated stringer, every time. If you string a racquet at 56 lbs., and it plays great, what does it matter if all of the mains/crosses are identical? How does that change the fact that it's playing great? It doesn't. What WILL matter is that when it's time to restring, that you can reproduce the results. No matter how. BUT, I say again, there is no intrinsic value in having all of your mains/crosses at identical tension. It is an unachievable, unconfirmable goal that drives many stringers crazy, for nothing.

    If I strung Federer's racquet with my feet, and he beat Nadal in the French Open finals, you can bet he'd be wanting his racquet strung by foot. It's all about being consistent and reproducing good results.
     
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  3. ryohazuki222

    ryohazuki222 Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for the response YuLitle. That gives me the reassurance I needed regarding most of the subject. Don't misunderstand me from my post..... I agree 100% with you that the #1 goal is consistency.

    Now that that is settled (for me anyway) it still leaves the matter of the specific situation with the Wise tension head. In the meantime, I found this post from a while back: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=259266&postcount=5

    I'll quote it here so you don't have to check the link:
    Basically, it seems Gaines Hillix thought this up a while ago, but chose not to pursue the idea. Has any pursued this idea.... any input on the results?
     
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  4. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    the revo gripper becomes level as tension is pulled, this is how it lock out
     
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  5. YULitle

    YULitle Hall of Fame

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    ryo: I don't know much about the mechanics of the WISE tension head, but I'm having trouble believing that it somehow "knows" when it is pulling at an angle. There will be discrepancies in tension based on pull angle, for sure. But I doubt it is something inherent in the system. You know? It's just a pulling machine that is designed to stop at a certain resistance. And, it will reach that resistance, typically, whether it is pulled at an angle or not. It has no way of knowing if the pull is level or not.
     
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  6. jcstennis

    jcstennis Hall of Fame

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    YU... with the Wise idea... would a straight pull w/o a "diablo" damage more fragile strings?

    And i agree whole heartily... it's all about consistency. your post above should be mounted on this forums wall for all to see as they enter!!! :)
     
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  7. YULitle

    YULitle Hall of Fame

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    I think using a diablo will always help the string. The only issue I would see is diablos with smaller diameters. The sharp turns may not be good for some soft multis or natural gut. But, that's just a hunch I have.
     
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  8. LttlElvis

    LttlElvis Professional

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  9. LttlElvis

    LttlElvis Professional

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    My experience with the Wise on 2 different machines:

    Eagnas Hawk 800. On both the crank and the Wise, the string gripper was just below (1inch) the plane of the racquet. I had 360 rotation on both and because the gripper was slightly lower, I could get the tensioning head close to the throat of the racquet. I used both a standard callibrator and digital fish scale, and both machines were on. I got incredibly consistent string jobs with the Wise.

    Gamma 6004. The crank has a diablo, but I have never even taken the tensioning unit out of the plastic. I have no opinions or experience using the crank. The Wise requires an attachment that raises it 3 inches higher so the string gripper is even with the racquet. If you mount the Wise unit close to the table, you do not have 360 rotation. I actually mounted the unit as far as possible where the gripper just clears the handle. No need to add washers, and I got full 360 rotation. I think mounting it this far is ok, since both callibrators were on. I still get consistent string jobs.
     
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  10. Zach

    Zach Semi-Pro

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    I have no idea what a "Diablo" is, is it the little spool thing you're supposed to wrap the string around?
     
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  11. Zhou

    Zhou Hall of Fame

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    Yes, a diablo is the little spool think you wrap the string around and then place in the gripper.

    The idea is to not tension the string directly upon the gripper but tension the string by pulling the diablo back. It allows the gripper to not have to grip as tight and damage the string.

    Bottom line: use it if you have it but if you don't, it is not exactly necessary.
     
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  12. ryohazuki222

    ryohazuki222 Semi-Pro

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    Does it really? I guess I've never paid attention. Pretty interesting.

    The reason I want to add a diablo is so I have an easier time getting the string in the gripper. In an ordinary situation, I'd probably prefer not to have one.

    Since the Wise gripper is horizontal I wanted to avoid situations like this:

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for this post... It's very helpful. In all my thinking, I forgot that I can just use my calibrator to check for myself what it says about the tension. Your experience with the hawk 800 is reassuring.

    I originally intended on doing what you did with the Gamma, but the revo's tensioning arm doesn't go out far enough to install the wise that far back im pretty sure. Additionally, the cheapskate in me would feel bad about the extra feet of string i'd be wasting.
     
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  13. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    the thing with no 360 is that its only a pain on the first few mains, i have been doing some work on a neos and i really don't mind it
     
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  14. ryohazuki222

    ryohazuki222 Semi-Pro

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    Does the neos not have 360° rotation? How do you start a racket on the neos? Do you just let the grip of the racket rub against the tension head?

    Back when I had a Gamma X-2, the whole lack of a real 360° rotation really annoyed me... it's just not something I want to experience again... haha :)
     
    #14
  15. furyballs

    furyballs Rookie

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    you can use the brake on the turntable to keep the grip off the tension head.
     
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