Strings, gauge & tension loss

Discussion in 'Strings' started by newyorkstadium, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Does a thinner string cause more overall tension loss (final stabilization)?

    Can you counter tension loss by stringing a racket at a higher tension?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
    #1
  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,431
    Location:
    SF, CA
    Depends. Check what they say at TWU string data base under Total Tension Loss. Stinging the reference tension initially higher will only make the string start losing its elasticity faster.
     
    #2
  3. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Sorry, what I meant was:

    If you string at a higher tension will you end up at a higher stabilisation tension? Or does the racket end up at the same stabilisation level, even if you string it at a much higher tension?
     
    #3
  4. Valjean

    Valjean Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    4,729
    Location:
    North Carolina
    It depends. There is no "stabilization point" in actuality. Your best option from your standpoint is natural gut. Natural gut has a fairly significant initial drop followed by a very low rate of loss. Nylon loses less initially, but its tension loss over time is higher than gut's

    Poly and/or kevlar drops a great deal in just a few days, when it's "dead". So may want to go by just the loss of elasticity in those string materials then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
    #4
  5. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Could you further explain some of your points please. I am a string novice.

    You say there is no stabilisation point. Does this mean there is no point when strings stop losing tension?

    What is loss of elasticity? Is it what cause's the poly/kevlar to go dead? Or is it tension loss that makes them go dead?

    Many Thanks
     
    #5
  6. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    There is no simple, direct correlation between gauge and tension drop.
    Elasticity is the ability to stretch and return to rest on impact.
    Polys lose the ability to come back to rest, many synguts, on the other hand can lose their ability to stretch with age so that the strings may actually become stiffer even though they lost tension.
    So when someone asks me to duplicate a factory job, I tell them no unless they want to let the racquet sit in the trunk for eight months before playing! 8)
     
    #6
  7. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,991
    Location:
    The net
    I don't recall anyone saying, "Gee, this synthetic gut that came with my racket is phenominal, can you replicate it?"

    Generally they say, "I want the Nadal string, strung really tight, because I need control, especially at my 3.0 level."
     
    #7
  8. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Natural gut is ruined by humidity though isn't it? I live in the UK which is quite humid.

    Is there a point when strings stop losing tension? Does stringing 2 lbs higher cause a drastic increase in loss of elasticity?

    Is there a correlation between gauge and tension loss? One person has said yes, another no.

    Do even basic strings, like 15l tournament nylon, go dead eventually, either form tension loss or elasticity?

    Thanks
     
    #8
  9. Up&comer

    Up&comer Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,991
    Location:
    The net

    By paragraph.

    1) Yes.

    2) Yes, at 0 pounds. It will take a long long time for that to happen though. 2 pounds isn't dramatic, but it will make a difference.

    3) It's debatable.

    4) Yes.
     
    #9
  10. jim e

    jim e Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,383
    I have had clients ask me exactly this.
    As a matter of fact I have had a good # of them.
    These are usually the club players around 40-60 year old range, and is a typical response they give me.
    I guess it depends on the range of clients you get.
     
    #10
  11. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    So, a string at 50 lbs will eventually lose tension down to 0 lbs? I once read someone on here say there is a stabilisation point. But that now seems untrue. Which is a shame.

    Is there a scientific reason why string gauge is, perhaps, associated with greater tension loss?

    Thanks
     
    #11
  12. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    There was a huge debate about this in the Stringing Tech forum.
    I wonder what results Irvin got with hanging the string by a paint can and measuring it?
    It will not go to 0lbs although it is theoretically possible.
    If you were to refer to RSI or TWU tests, you would see that there is no correlation between gauge and initial tension loss.
    No tests have measured this over time to see if there is a level-out point other than personal tests and testimonials by people here.

    Hey! That might be something for the Mythbusters!
    I'd love to see a racquet explode in super slo mo!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2012
    #12
  13. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Could you provide me with a link for the stringing tech forum? I can't find it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
    #13
  14. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    Do multi's lose more/less elasticity than syn gut.

    Is there any elasticity loss data? I can find tension loss through opinions and stringforum diagrams.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
    #14
  15. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,454
    Location:
    Michigan
    Most people will tell you that if you don't break strings and want longevity with the ultimate in everything, go with gut. No questions asked.
     
    #15
  16. corbind

    corbind Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,308
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Not the ultimate in spin, unfortunately, but likely the best in all other regards. Yet many people never try it because they can't justify the money and worry about breaking it. :)
     
    #16
  17. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    I don't think anyone has tested for elasticity change.
    Both nylon and polyester are sensitive to temperature becoming more elastic when hot and less elastic when cold.
    Additionally, nylon is sensitive to UV, becoming brittle, which is why an old bed of syngut can feel stiff even though it has lost tension.
    Natgut is not affected as much, but it is sensitive to moisture or lack thereof.


    Oh, and just click on the stringing equipment and techniques forum if you haven't figured that out already.
     
    #17
  18. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    585
    I have been looking at the numbers of the TWU tension loss data.

    Thicker gauge lose more tension after stringing. They also lose more through ball impact.

    Clearly thinner gauges have less tension loss. Also, synthetic's had slightly less tension loss then multi's. Poly's had huge tension loss.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
    #18

Share This Page