Success on second serve

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by krosero, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Just trying to teach clueless ABMK some universal tennis truths so that he learns there was life before his swiss wonder turned pro...
     
  2. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Matosevic vs Raonic

    1st serve 57%
    2nd serve 61%

    Raonic vs Istomin in San Jose final this year

    1st serve 90%
    2nd serve 94%
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  3. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Connors in his loss to Ashe at '75 Wimbledon: 48% on 1st serve, 55% on 2nd (thanks to Nadal_Power for this stat).

    Connors in his win over Agenor at '91 RG: 50% on 1st serve, 63% on 2nd. This stat comes from the ATP so it could be wrong, but I'm posting it because in my survey of ATP stats I always found their stats from the 1991 season to be correct.
     
  4. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Nadal had lower success on 1st serve than on 2nd serve in each of his first two matches coming back from his layoff (in Vina del Mar). It has not happened again in his 6 matches since then; his 1st serve success in those first two matches was down at 63% and 65%, but it has been higher in all the subsequent matches. In fact he reached 90% success in his semi in Sao Paolo (d. Alund).
     
  5. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Nadal had higher success on second serve than on first serve twice last week in Rome, in his semi and final.

    d. Berdych: 100% on second serve (10 pts.), 77% on 1st (27/35)
    d. Federer: 72% on second (8/11), 70% on first (22/31)
     
  6. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Federer and Henman played 13 matches: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=F324&oId=H336.

    Henman never did better on second serve than on first.

    But it happened to Federer, surprisingly, in five of their matches.

    1999 Basel (a loss): 51% on 1st, 56% on 2nd
    2000 Vienna (a loss): 70% on 1st, 78% on 2nd
    2002 Miami (a one-set win, Henman retiring): 69% and 80%
    2005 Miami (a win): 75% and 76%
    2006 Tokyo (a win): 74% and 80%
     
  7. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Federer vs Janowicz in Rome

    72 on 1st serve, 75 on 2nd
     
  8. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    Serena vs Errani

    82 on 1st serve, 88 on 2nd
     
  9. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    1982 RG (Higueras d. Connors)
    Connors - 39% on 1st, 40% on 2nd per Moose's count

    1987 USO (Lendl d. Connors)
    Connors - 47% on 1st, 53% on 2nd per my count
     
  10. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    2013 RG final (S. Williams d. Sharapova)
    Sharapova - 48% on 1st, 59% on 2nd
    per RG site

    2008 AO (Sharapova d. Henin)
    Sharapova - 68% on 1st, 71% on 2nd
    per Ao_Org
     
  11. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    2003 RG (Henin d. S. Williams)
    Henin - 49% on 1st, 59% on 2nd
    per RG site

    2007 Miami (S. Williams d. Henin)
    Serena - 50% on 1st, 54% on 2nd
     
  12. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    2013 Canada final
    Nadal - 78% on 1st, 91% on 2nd

    Nadal lost just 1 point on 2nd serve (out of 12 total), d. Raonic
     
  13. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Nadal, in 3 consecutive meetings with James Blake, had lower success on 1st serve than on second. Never happened to Blake in their series.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=N409&oId=B676

    2006 Masters Cup (lost to Blake)
    Nadal - 50% on 1st, 54% on 2nd

    2008 Indian Wells (d. Blake)
    Nadal - 62% on 1st, 69% on 2nd

    2008 Miami (d. Blake)
    Nadal - 65% on 1st, 84% on 2nd

    In that last match Nadal lost only 3 of 19 points on 2nd serve
     
  14. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    2010 Doha

    Darcis - 36% on 1st, 45% on 2nd
    lost to Nadal

    Troicki - 39% on 1st, 53% on 2nd
    lost to Nadal
     
  15. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    1998 RG final

    Seles - 61.4% on 1st, 61.8% on 2nd (lost to Sanchez V.)
    per RG site
     
  16. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Yesterday in Delpo's 6-2, 6-4 win over Nadal in Shanghai, both men had lower success on 1st serve than on 2nd serve.

    http://www.atpworldtour.com/Players/Head-To-Head.aspx?pId=D683&oId=N409

    Del Potro made 80% of his first serves by taking something off them, so you'd expect his success on 1st serve to be a little low (it was 65%).

    This is now the second time in a row that Nadal, against Delpo, has had lower success on 1st serve than on 2nd serve: it happened to him also in his win over Juan Martin in Indian Wells this year.

    Apart from that, in all their other matches, their numbers were "normal", ie, better success on 1st than on 2nd.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    krosero, I think you have a little mistake in writing that Nadal had lower success on 2nd serve than on first serve.
     
  18. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Ah, you're right, I will correct that. Nice to see people reading carefully! Thanks.
     
  19. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Del Potro lost to Djokovic at the USO way back in '07 with only 48% success on 1st, and 54% on 2nd.

    Apart from that both men have had "normal" numbers in all their meetings to date.
     
  20. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Ferrer was weaker on first serve than on second (39% vs 50%) in his loss to Nadal in London yesterday, the only time that has happened to him in their 26 meetings.

    It only happened to Nadal once in their rivalry, in 2008 in Barcelona (62% vs 69%).
     
  21. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Nadal was weaker on first serve than on second (62% vs 64%) in his win over Djokovic at the '08 Beijing Olympics.
     
  22. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Some further examples for Federer, with particularly high success on second serve in each case:

    d. Mirnyi at 2006 AO (78% on first vs 86% on second)
    d. Mahut at 2006 Wimb (71% vs 78%)
    d. Safin at 2008 Wimb (76% and 80%)
     
  23. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    In his last two matches at the WTF Djokovic had higher success on second serve than on first. In each match it was a case of a good job on the second ball rather than a poor job on the first: against Wawrinka he was at 75% on 2nd serve; against Nadal he was at 70%.

    Same deal this year against Mayer at Wimbledon (81% on 2nd) and Granollers at the USO (87%).
     
  24. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Last night Monfils' success on second serve fluctuated enormously in the five sets against Federer.

    Set 1 - 68%
    Set 2 - 89%
    Set 3 - 29%
    Set 4 - 31%
    Set 5 - 25%

    That stat tells the entire story right there, in terms of sets won and lost. Obviously it was a key factor in the match, and maybe the most important.

    It may also be connected somehow to Monfils' 10 double-faults.
     
  25. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    In the final Nishikori had greater success on second serve than on first. His success on second serve was almost as good as Cilic’s (59% vs 61%). But there was a gulf between the two players on first serve (55% vs 80%).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
  26. krosero

    krosero Legend

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  27. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    As they say, you're only as good as your second serve. It is amazing to me how Djokovic has improved his overall serving game from a few years ago.
     
  28. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Don't know what happened to him on 1st serve, but 62% on second is an outstanding stat regardless.
     
  29. Moose Malloy

    Moose Malloy Legend

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    seems hard to believe

    http://www.tennischannel.com/news/NewsDetails.aspx?newsid=15115

    just started watching this match, Hingis lost a 2nd serve point in her 2nd game, so I guess this is a typo or something.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2015

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