Surely Wawrinka has the best 1hbh in the mens game...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Gugafan, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. jmverdugo

    jmverdugo Hall of Fame

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    I agree Wawrinka does have the best OHBH out there, although Youznhy is hitting really good these days.
     
    #51
  2. The_Missionary

    The_Missionary Banned

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    The only reason Fed's BH has even come into question is because of Nadal's ability to exploit it. That's it. No one else has really come close to exploiting it.
     
    #52
  3. hawk eye

    hawk eye Hall of Fame

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    Fed's bH is a decent shot and at time's more than that (before people gonna throw in the vid of J. Blake (who aplauds Fed's shots even before he hits them) - Fed match at the YEM a few years ago)
    But he'd die to have a topspin backhand like his fellow countryman has.
     
    #53
  4. Mr_Shiver

    Mr_Shiver Semi-Pro

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    Fed has an average drive(for a pro that is). It is a neutral rally shot, it wont put him at a advantage or disadvantage in a regular rally. Under pressure he will make more errors than winners/good returns. It is negatively impacted by his reluctance to cede ground on the baseline. Unless your name is Agassi, trying to half volley your bh from the baseline consistently for a whole match is going to be a hit or miss venture. To me his return of serve drive is below average, too many short balls, shanks and errors. His slice on the other hand is a plus stroke. Great variety and control. On return of serve his slice a plus, excellent placement with the ability to neutralize big serves. If you want to judge on the bh drive alone Fed is behind the likes of Gasquet, Wawrinka and Youhzny. If you go with the whole package he is in the conversation tops.
     
    #54
  5. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    It is astounding that a guy will run around his forehand and hit a backhand winner down the line from 5 ft behind the baseline. However, Gasquet has one of the most disorganized overall pro tennis games I have ever seen.
     
    #55
  6. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    #56
  7. Scientist

    Scientist Rookie

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    ^^^ lol big win today
     
    #57
  8. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    I agree to an extent. Federer has an absolutely beautiful backhand, with power and tremendous variety.

    I have said this before, but it bears repeating. Nadal's forehand is one of the most amazing shots in the history of tennis. There are many reasons that it is amazing, but the most important reason is its effectiveness against the Federer backhand. We have never seen one weapon that is so effective, so accurate and so persistant at exploiting a great player's one tiny, usually well protected weakness.

    I think other players have tried to exploit it, but not like Nadal. Some of the big hitters can rush or overpower Federer at times and many player's see Nadal's strategy as a blueprint to beat Federer. But, no one can really execute it the way Nadal does. Its really the perfect weapon.

    As far as Federer's backhand is concerned, if Nadal did not exist, it probably would be considered on of the best 1hbhs in history.
     
    #58
  9. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    This is a joke, anyone who says Federer has a better backhand better than Wawrinka is kidding themselves. How bout I bring up the fact that Federer against Hewitt in their 05 semi-final hit like maybe 5 backhand winners over the course of 4 sets IN HIS PRIME, when his backhand was actually good. Federer has NEVER littered up the stat sheet with his backhand. The only match I can remember him doing well numbers wise was against Blake in the Shanghai TMC in 06.



    Wawrinka had something like 15+ backhand winners through 4 sets. Total joke of a comparison; Wawrinka clearly has a much stronger backhand.
     
    #59
  10. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    Of course you make a great point. Federer is capable of hitting passing shots and winners off the backhand side. I mean ESPN highlight shots!

    But, it is not as stable, shot to shot, as many 1hbh players in history (or currently Wawrinka, Gasquet, Haas etc). If he could, he would never hit a backhand.

    I was not even thinking about the comparison b/w the two, I was just agreeing that if Nadal had not been able to exploit Federer's backhand, it would not be criticised to the degree that it has.

    Let me edit my comments previously. Federer would not have one of the best 1hbh in history if Nadal did not exist. But, his ability to hit phenomenal winners off the backhand side would have us talking about it on a shot by shot basis.
     
    #60
  11. IvanisevicServe

    IvanisevicServe Banned

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    All I know is Federer out-backhanded just about every opponent in his prime, including the likes of Gasquet. There were times when it looked like he had two forehands. On grass it was practically flawless.

    But these days, there are times when it's one of the worst backhands in the Top 100. As long as guys like Petzschner and Karlovic are around, it will never be the worst...but it gets damn close sometimes. Andy Roddick made Federer's backhand look like club level in last year's Wimbledon final by comparison, and Roddick's backhand is considered a weak one by pro standards.
     
    #61
  12. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    You think his tennis game is disorganized....try going out to dinner and a few drinks with the guy.

    Back on topic.... Wawrinka....
    the threadtitle is:
    ''Surely Wawrinka has the best 1hbh in the mens game''

    Yeah, but don't call him Surely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
    #62
  13. Gugafan

    Gugafan Hall of Fame

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    Fed fan boys reluctancy to accept that he's not the best in all aspects of the game.
     
    #63
  14. Cesc Fabregas

    Cesc Fabregas Legend

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    I prefer Youzhny's but Wawrinka's is great aswell.
     
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  15. FeVer

    FeVer Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, I would say Gasquet has the best 1HBH on the tour, followed closely by Wawrinka, Almagro and Youzhny
     
    #65
  16. piece

    piece Professional

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    Amen to that!

    Also love Almagro and Kohly's, when they're pounding it you won't find any backhands more impressive than theirs. Wawrinka's is probably better though as it's more of a consistent shot for him.
     
    #66
  17. Gugafan

    Gugafan Hall of Fame

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    This thread deserves a bump, after the Wawrinka masterclass against Roddick.
     
    #67
  18. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Stans 1hander is the best.
     
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  19. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Stan offensive,
    Roger defensive/slice
     
    #69
  20. Messarger

    Messarger Hall of Fame

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    Gugafan, are you a fan of Rafael Nadal? just curious.
     
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  21. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    Wawrinka
    O. Rochus
    Stakhovsky

    Wawrinkas has the most solid in tennis possibly ever. Rochus for a little guy can hit a winner off the backhand wing from anywhere on the court generating his own pace which is probably more impressive.
     
    #71
  22. Wilander Fan

    Wilander Fan Hall of Fame

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    I was more impressed with what Wawrinka did in his match with Monfils. Monfils tried to attack backhand to backhand with his very good 2 hander and lost the first set as well. He then tried to attack Wawrinka's backhand with his inside out forehand got burned dtl. Stan basically hit only backhands for the first 2 sets and was outslugging one of the biggest hitters in the game from both wings.
     
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  23. stanton warrior

    stanton warrior Rookie

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    I wonder how Federer will do against Wawrinka in the backhand exchanges.
     
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  24. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    I didn't see that match as it was on at at a bad time for me but I would have loved to have seen it. Sounds like monfils to be stubborn and not change a losing tactic.

    Changing direction is no big problem for him when he is playing good, the dlt has a good margin of error even the hardest shots come off. He can put his opponent on a peice of string and move them side to side. Federer will not play anything like monfils we can safely say that. He knows Wawrinkas game inside out so it will be interesting to see what he does, which side he approaches, how he uses slice, ect.
     
    #74
  25. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    #75
  26. Clay lover

    Clay lover Hall of Fame

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    The shot at 3:55 is just insane. How many feet was he standing behind the baseline? People always say Gasquet is overrated, but not his backhand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
    #76
  27. jerriy

    jerriy Hall of Fame

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    Somebody please upload a highlight clip of those matches, i.e. Wawa versus Roddick (and versus Monfils in the previous round)
     
    #77
  28. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    The backhand exchanges won't be the big problem I think. The problem will be Fed's footwork when Wawa opens to the forehand side, and also Fed's consistency on the relatively easy shots with his forehand. If his forehand and serve are good, Wawa wil win some nice backhand exchanges, but can't do anything with it. I think Fed will slice and dice enough to make it harder for Stan to hit a bh winner down the line.
     
    #78
  29. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    What are you talking about. Federer's backhand is one of the best backhands in history. It's a great shot and I would put it right up there with the other great one-handed backhands in the history of the game.
     
    #79
  30. jwbarrientos

    jwbarrientos Hall of Fame

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    At AO 2011, that could be the case, but did you see Almagro? Robredo? Gasquet?, even Roger is doing well.
     
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  31. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    No, Federer does NOT have better backhand than Wawrinka, sorry. Fed does have better forehand though. 1. Gasquet, 2. Warinka, 3. Ivan Lubicic, in that order of who has the best 1-handed backhand.
     
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  32. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I too have to go with Waw over Fed
     
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  33. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    If we count, the slice backhand, the dropshot backhand, the volley backhand, and the smashbackhand.. I think Federer comes very close... A backhand is more than something to hit winners with. I might still pick Wawrinka's, but I think Roger def. wouldn't pick Wawrinka's over his own.
     
    #83
  34. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    Thats a matter of opinion many would disagree with. Wawrinka has a great one-hander, but given the choice I would take Federer's every time.
     
    #84
  35. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    In todays game utility means nothing if your topspin backhand is breaking down to the likes of Robredo.
     
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  36. Gugafan

    Gugafan Hall of Fame

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    Mcenroe et al, all seem to agree that Wawrinka has the best 1hbh in the mens game at the moment. No one is saying Federer has a weak backhand and neither questioning his variety of shot. Overall though, Wawrinka is just more solid and explosive.
     
    #86
  37. mcenroefan

    mcenroefan Hall of Fame

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    I think Fed's slice BH is one of the best slice BH's in the history of the game....probably the best but I didn't get to see Rosewall and some of the other BH greats play. His topspin BH, while being among the most beautiful shots, is not the best in today's game....Gasquet, Wawrinka and a few others have more penetrating topspin BH's in my opinion.

    Sadly, the one hander seems to be going the way of the dodo.
     
    #87
  38. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    Best OHBH today - Wawrinka

    GOHBHOAT as shown by this not very clean shot:
    [​IMG]
     
    #88
  39. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    1. It apparently brings you 16 Grandslam titles.

    2. Fed's backhand wasn't breaking down against Robredo.. It was his forehand that went away for a few games, and was too inconsistent in general.
     
    #89
  40. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    McEnroe changes his opinions so frequently it's impossible to keep track unless you live in his pocket and I've rarely heard him commit to anything catergorically. There's always a 'may', 'arguably' or 'could be' somewhere. I also doubt the other 'expert' opinion has unanimously come to the conclusion Wawrinka has the best one-hander on tour. There are a lot of good one-handers out there and the margins between them are too small to really be meaningful. It's more likely to be a case of stylistic preference.

    As regards Federer and Wawrinka, their backhands are so different that it's hard to compare them like-for-like. Wawrinka likes to camp out deep behind the baseline to give his loopy strokes more time in the preparatory build up. His long strokes and full follow-through need that most of the time, plus it gives him margin in case he over-hits. Federer plays the game completely differently. He likes to stay closer to the baseline and take time away from his opponent, so is often half-volleying balls or otherwise taking them significantly earlier. His strokes have to be more abbreviated so that he is not late. He also has less margin to over-hit. It is technically more difficult to take the ball early in the way Federer does than it is to camp out way behind the baseline and swing freely in the way Wawrinka does. Technically Federer has no problem doing this, but his game is to impose himself on the baseline. Ask Wawrinka to consistently take the ball early on the backhand like Federer and I doubt he could do it with anywhere near the same level of success or consistency. Add this to Federer's slice, various flicks and improvisations and his ability to return big serves on that side close in on the baseline and you will see why I place Federer's backhand above Wawrinka's.
     
    #90
  41. Gugafan

    Gugafan Hall of Fame

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    Maybe you need to watch more of Wawrinka's matches recently. He is doing the polar opposite of staying well behind the baseline and get pushed too far back. His match against Murray (US Open) was a prime example of this, where he was stepping inside the baseline on second serves returns and hitting clean bh winners. Something that requires great timing and precision as you have mentioned. Federer is less reluctant to attack off his backhand on the return of serve, as he's less comfortable hitting shoulder height balls. Hence, the reason for Federer using the slice backhand to try and neutralise rallys. However this tactic is proving to be less effective, against some of the bigger hitters (Soderling, Berdych, Nadal) who have no problem generating their own pace.

    I agree Federer takes the ball earlier than Wawrinka, but that does not necessarily mean his backhand is more imposing. If anything it results in him shanking the ball quite often, or coughing up short balls (Soderling French Open), took full advantage of this.

    Anyway each to his own, and I dont want to give the impression that Federers bh is an 'average' shot, especially when it was firing on all cylinders against Nadal at the WTF. However as Namranger mentioned Federer has never lit up the stats sheet with his backhand winners. Something Wawrinka is able to do consistently.
     
    #91
  42. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Federer's backhand is a weakness of his. that is why Rafa picks on it. Do you see Rafa picking on Wawrinka's backhand ?
     
    #92
  43. kOaMaster

    kOaMaster Hall of Fame

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    have you seen any matches between nadal & wawrinka?
    don't know whether nadal ever really cared about stans backhand.

    nadal did not even lose a single set in 7 matches...
     
    #93
  44. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    I have seen Wawrinka's recent matches, but as you say, to each his own. I've been more consistently impressed by Federer's backhand than I have been by Wawrinka's. I've also seen more outstanding plays by Federer's backhand than I have by Wawrinka's, which nevertheless is an excellent stroke.
     
    #94
  45. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    Federer's backhand is not a weakness. It is just not as strong as his forehand. What I see is Wawrinka playing Nadal 7 times and not winning so much as a set. He has lost in straights each time. Wawrinka's backhand is no less exploitable by Nadal's forehand than Federer's is. The fact is that Nadal's forehand is better than every backhand that has ever seen the game. Why wouldn't it be? It's a forehand.
     
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  46. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    Watch your tone, rookie. When I see Federer consistently win crosscourt backhand to forehand battles with Nadal I might think differently. THAT IS WHAT THE F*CK I AM TALKING ABOUT.

    I am not a drooling fan of either, but what I stated in the post you responded so rudely to, is the truth. You may not like it, but you better learn to live with it.
     
    #96
  47. Markov

    Markov Semi-Pro

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    Det här.

    10char
     
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  48. above bored

    above bored Semi-Pro

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    No backhand in the history of the game is going to consistently win crosscourt backhand to forehand battles with Nadal because no backhand in the history of the game is anywhere near as good as Nadal's forehand. Forehands > backhands.
     
    #98
  49. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Federer's backhand won him 0 slams. His forehand, his movement, and his ability to dominate on the offense is what won him 16 slams. But keep trying *******.
     
    #99
  50. pjonesy

    pjonesy Professional

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    Look, what are we talking about? The most beautiful 1hbh, the most effective 1hbh, the most consistent 1hbh, the most powerful 1hbh? You can watch matches and make subjective comments about Wawrinka's 1hbh. Or you can look at stat sheets to see how many winners are hit off of the 1hbh.

    As far as Federer is concerned, his forehand is arguably the best in history and it is much, much better than his backhand. Agassi had a similar issue. His 2hbh is arguably the greatest in history, but his forehand is not in the top 10(IMO). As a 1-2 punch, these 2 guys are possibly the best, but if you isolate their weaker shot and compare it to their best shot, its pretty obvious why its called their weaker shot.

    Also, Nadal is able to exploit Federer's backhand, because it is a 1hbh. A 2hander is generally more stable and can more easily handle the high kicking shots. Nadal is not able to exploit 2 handers in the same way as the 1hander. He CAN, but it is usually a function of being able to pull a 2hander wide. With Federer, Nadal can rush his 1hbh, he can push him back and he can kick the ball above his shoulder. Nadal, generally, would not be able to exploit those 3 against a world class 2hbh.
     

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