Sweet spot of Max200g

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by MichaelChang, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    I picked up a used Max200g strung with random syn guts with low tension. The stick weights 13.4oz. The head sure looks like a 85 or so, but the sweet spot feels much bigger than a Wilson 85. The 200g plays very flex, and very sweet on most shots, including some off-center shots. Hmm... Is that so to you too?
     
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  2. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    The MAX 200G is more like an 80 than an 85. I believe the playability of the MAX is due to the IMF process.
     
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  3. michael valek

    michael valek Rookie

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    there is no softer feeling frame. at the correct tensions, if you hit it right, you can hardly even feel that a ball has hit the strings.
     
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  4. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    Yes to OP. I played with the Max 200 G for many years and then bought and spent a summer with a PS 6.0/85. While the PS was much better for my serve, and whippier for my forehand drive, the Max outshone it in other categories. . . it was a much more aggressive frame and excellent for mixing it up. Felt like a much larger sweet spot, and the weight made off center shots work just fine. Pickem up and getem back.
     
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  5. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    I was hitting with the 200g, Wilson JackKramer prostaff 85 and the Wilson 6.0 85 side by side. The wilson 85s both are much easier to whip, feels much ligher to swing, but the sweet spot of 200g is just obviously feels bigger and sweet. I can't put it down. The wilson 85s felt tiny compared to the 200g on ground strokes.
     
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  6. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    turn the racquets to the side, the max 200g's thickness is almost double that of the PS 6.0 85's
     
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  7. Backhanded Compliment

    Backhanded Compliment Hall of Fame

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    I played it in the 80's and picked one up last year for 25 bucks. We all used to call it "The Doom Log" and even today I cant hit a heavier flat forehand or backhand slice than with that thing. There are shots one can really only hit with the IMF 200G. I remember something about the 200G's injection moulding process giving its hoop tremendous ability to not distort (especially on off center hits). It may flex but it has a strange stability that allows it to be perhaps the most ridiculous vollying/touch/graphite racket ever made.

    It had immense power on tap for everything but serves and topspin and reacts well to low tension poly. I have Black Magic on mine in the 40's and its accuracy is legendary. I literally aim for lines with it. Stopped using it because it held my second serves back.


    Also, the IMF process created larger string holes than usual... in fact Prince had to wait for its patents to expire to do their moulded vs drilled hole rackets

    Headsize is like 83.9 inches and the whole thing feels like a sweetspot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
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  8. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Damn, now I have to go play with the bloody thing! :D
     
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  9. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    Is it just me who thinks it has obscene power for some shots? I hit some ridiculous returns with mine last week and couldn't really believe how much oomph they had.
     
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  10. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for sharing your experience with it. 25 bucks sounds a sweet deal. I have to try get one in better condition. Definitely a classic worth to own. These sticks are not for match play now these days, can't use them in serious competitive singles matches, but lots of fun and vintage on casual hittings/practises/doubles.
     
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  11. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    You would be surprised as its fun to use a classic racket in tournaments. Guess if your worried about a ranking then you may want a modern blaster. I loved using the max 200g to play serve volley tennis and played it will all natural at 50 lbs. The sweet spot, feel, and stability is just amazing. Also, this racket was made to last and even the models that have the paint warn off will still play great many years. I have even known some players that played them with major court rash. I prefer to play ones with all the graphite but don't care about the paint job.
     
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  12. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Did it! Played a pro-set tonight and won by usual margin with that opponent.
    I used it with some ancient syn gut that was already in and it still played sweet. It deserves another trial with better strings, though.
    Groundies are great when positioned right. Hits a bit flatter, which was expected. However, I managed to hit few very bouncy top spins, don't even know how... It was pretty easy to play an emergency backhand slice when not in position for a flat or spinny one. Also shanked few backhands...
    Voleys were awsome. Directional control too. Some dropshots sailed a bit longer then intended.
    Serving was absolute b!tch... Very hard, especially the topspin ones. The ones that I did strike right, felt great, though.
    Feel is very flexy and plush, BUT, arm didn't like it much!? No problems with shoulder or wrist, that I sometimes get from racquets that are too heavy for me, but elbow...

    Conclusion: From my goldy-oldies, I like PT280 and POG OS better. This is just as nice as Spectum Comp or POG M.
    I think if I ditched the leather for a much lighter grip (maybe an overgrip only) and strung it with gut/poly, I'd like it even more.
     
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  13. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Come on guy's ( and gall's),
    Let's face it.....WE WANT THIS ICON RE-ISSUED!!!!!
    TW, go nag Dunlop into uncovering the dust collecting IMF machines and start moulding a few of these babies!!!
    Make it a 85 weighing about 330 gr strung and 6 points headlight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
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  14. retrowagen

    retrowagen Hall of Fame

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    Does Dunlop really have the IMF machines laying in storage, or were they destroyed or scrapped (as I would expect)?

    It's unlikely that the manufacturing process peculiar to IMF would be environmentally or fiscally viable - the amounts of aluminium alloy required for each racquet (to be molten out) makes it silly.

    There are still lots of good Max 200g's out there... I found one (a lovely 1985 version, Light 5 size), with cover, at a California thrift store last night for the huge sum of $3.98... :)
     
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  15. Rock Strongo

    Rock Strongo Legend

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    Getting a second one in a few days hopefully. I have a hard time playing with anything else because of the unique feel to it to which I've grooved with. Had I just been older I could've stocked up, and probably the ones with a bigger headsize. Well, that's the perils of being a teenager!
     
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  16. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Frankly, I hav'nt got a clue if they still have these machines or not..:)
    I know many are still around, I have several versions in multiple cosmetic conditions and even offer them totally refurbished to anyone who wants them. I strip them of all paint, give them a new stealthy matt black finish and apply a full grain leather grip and string job of choice.
    Many judge these rackets by their cover, read: paint job, but fail to look beyond that. I believe that a solid structural condition is much more important than looks for these rackets.
     
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  17. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    My experience 100%, the whole thing is a sweet spot, much bigger happy zone than the PS 85 or POG 90...not even close. Those are holy grail frames too of course but I also found them much more demanding than the Max 200 G.

    String it up with natty gut at about 50# to experience tennis nirvana.
     
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  18. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Hannah I thing I recall reading they just became too expensive to produce the manufacturing process was very complicated and I also recall it was a workplace safety nightmare too.

    Way way ahead of it's time, would still be a state of the art frame if they could be produced IMHO. Dunlop really nailed it with that one. A lot of Grand Slam victories too!!

    Also agree the nastier they look the cooler they are...stealthy. The 2 I have left have virtually no flaky paint remaining.
     
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  19. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    The side of the 200G says "John McEnroe recommends 55# string tension" (or something like that). Is it your experience that 50# is better? Of course, nat gut looses about 10# tension pretty quickly then stabilizes for a while. My 200G is calling for some Wilson 17G nat gut ASAP!

    I second the motion. In fact, I'll even put up some $ if anyone can find an IMF machine. Let's do it!
     
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  20. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Yes, I played the max 200g's many years and really enjoyed them the most at 50lbs and with a thicker gauge natural gut. I have also always found the tension retention better with nat gut than any other string.

    Would be great to get these reproduced but the injection molding process would make it much more expensive than the standard manufacturing.
     
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  21. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    Show me the machine and I'll show you the $ :).
     
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  22. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    About ten years ago I looked into this. I think there is/was a firm in Rockford, Illinois that did this kind of injection molding with graphite stuff. I wasn't too surprised; Rockford is a well-known tooling city.
     
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  23. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Ummm, no...
    The expensive part of the injection molding is the machinery and the molds. If those still exist, it is actually less expensive to produce a frame then a standard one. Standard is pretty much a hand laid process, with several slow steps. Injection molding is automated and a single quick step.
     
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  24. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Totally agree... The best thing, IMHO, is that the quality of a moulded frame is more consistent then a hand laid regular manufactured frame.
    Rumours are that a certain person involved in this forum has set his mind on making a brand new racket line combining IMF with regular manufacturing processes..........
     
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  25. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    It is a powerful racket if you can generate the head speed. I found that the best way to generate power is on hard incoming shots. The racket is very stable and I had no trouble hitting back to someone who was blasting bombs at me with a yellow Babolat. I play with the Max 200g Pro which is lighter and about 10pts head light (vs 5-6pt for the regular). It plays best with natural gut but a high quality multi like babolat xcel power 17 also works very well. Comparatively polyester didn't feel as good, but it was only relative to the two other strings.
     
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  26. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Do you think the tennis crowd at large would want to play with an 84 sq inch racket? When I show up with my rackets even old timers wonder at the size. I tell them that it plays much bigger but they still shake their heads.
     
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  27. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    I imagine that the same question was asked before the re-production of the original Wilson PS (85 sq. in.). It has a loyal following and, although I don't know the numbers, seems to be a demand for it and the repros are doing quite well. Of course, I wouldn't say this about just any old "vintage" racquet, but certain ones could follow suit like the POG, 200G, etc.

    BTW... yesterday I placed my Max 200G over top of a modern midsize Head racquet and was shocked that there really didn't seem to be much of an appreciable difference in head size. I was expecting the difference to be black and white, but it wasn't. When you hold a Max 200G up at a distance they do look small. I think this is partially due to the "chunky" frame of the Max 200G. Also, when I play with my Max 200G I hit no more "framed shots" than with my Babolat PD2012 (100 sq. in.) and I'm certainly not a pro ;).
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
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  28. AlfaAce

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    And what were the results if any?
     
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  29. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    I actually measured it, it is 84 sq inch. The reason it looks bigger is that the frame is thick, as you mention. I compared it to a 93 sq inch Prince Diablo and it is clearly smaller.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
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  30. corners

    corners Legend

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    The swingweight of about 355 is the primary reason the sweet zone feels so big. PS 85 is about 330. If you've ever slapped 8 grams of lead onto a stick at 12 o'clock you know what increasing swingweight by 25 units does to the sweetspot and feel.

    The low - about 45 flex - is also a factor in how the frame feels compared to stiffer (PS: 65 flex) sticks.
     
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  31. AlfaAce

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    Yep... regardless of sq. in., there is certainly a reason that the 200G racked up so many wins on tour with many pros back in the day. That same reason keeps it quite popular today (like the Wilson PS85). Used 200Gs still command quite a price. For example, a decent condition 200G will easily run you $100 + shipping on 3bay these days. In comparison, a Yonex R-22 (also a very popular and winning stick of the same era) will only fetch $35-50 in the same condition. I'd love to re-introduce the original 200G :).
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
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  32. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    .. and a used 200G pro would cost you $200. But if you had the choice, would you still make it 84 sq in or would you try to increase the size (90, 93, 95) to appeal to both the old guard and a broader public? The 500i, which is 95 sq in is quite a different beast, with different frame profile and different material.

    As a side note, I compared the 200G pro and the PS 85 new version, side by side for an hour or so. In the past, I was a fan of the PS 85, having played with a similar racket for over ten years. However, compared to the 200G pro, it now felt underpowered and unstable. The dunlop felt better in many ways.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
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  33. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    Nope. I'd keep it 100% original. Of course, I'd want to reproduce the "200G Pro" as well.
     
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  34. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    A used 200G Pro can be obtained for much less these days if you would settle for the less popular Dark green/Gold/Teal version. Same great feel but half the price of the Black/Purple/Green one.
     
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  35. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    I measuredd mine to about 330 SW...
     
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  36. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    I know, I got one of the gold/teal version :) I don't have any of the purple/green ones but have three old style ones with two stripes.
     
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  37. MichaelChang

    MichaelChang Hall of Fame

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    What is the main difference between the 200g and the 200g pros? I had the impression the pros were just re-runs and should have the same mold/material and plays the same? I am probably wrong? Thanks.
     
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  38. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    I didn't know the difference myself until I held a couple of each. The answer is that the Pro model is lighter and is more head light.

    On my sample of three of each, the Pros were 2pt more HL (9 vs 7). The pros are 360,361, 364g. The non-pros are 365, 366, 371g. All are strung and have overgrips, except the two lighter non-pros which don't have overgrips. The caveat is that the strings are different on the rackets and that the non-pros all have different grip sizes (L2, L3, and L4).

    2pt HL doesn't seem like much but because I started playing with the pros, I picked up the difference as soon as I laid my hand on the non-pro.
     
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  39. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

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    I already had ten 200G's of differing vintages, but the other day someone at my club gave me another couple, one the original black and the other the teal. They were her old racquets from years ago, but still in very acceptable condition.

    I'm now playing with the teal one. Originally I wanted to use it occasionally just to improve my technique, but I've now got so addicted to the feel of it, I'm using it all the time.

    It weighs 373 grammes, same as my mint (as in perfect graphics) black one. They do seem to vary a bit in weight, but I hadn't noticed any appreciable difference as between the standard and pro models.

    I look around at the other members of my club, playing with 10 oz (or even lighter) frames and can't imagine playing with such light frames - horrible. I like to let the racquet do the work, rather than my arm. :)
     
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  40. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    <<It weighs 373 grammes, same as my mint (as in perfect graphics) black one. They do seem to vary a bit in weight, but I hadn't noticed any appreciable difference as between the standard and pro models.>>

    Can you measure the balance point between your pros and the others? I found it to be 1/4 inch = 2 pt. Curious if you see the same thing.
     
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  41. michael valek

    michael valek Rookie

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    i was using the pros alongside the regular 200g. pros much nicer, seemed flexier, and just a bit lighter and easier, less cumbersome. and i could never ever get on with a ps 85. i loved the idea but the max was just lovely in comparison.
     
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  42. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Rebirth of a legend

    I second the motion. In fact, I'll even put up some $ if anyone can find an IMF machine. Let's do it![/QUOTE]


    Be careful what you wish. After months of work, research and generally jumping through hoops and loops, we are close to bringing back injection molding to tennis. Moreover, we plan on manufacturing the frame in the USA!!. Here's a picture of the prototype.

    [​IMG]
    Copyright DEPAUME LLC, 2013

    Stay tuned for details in the weeks to come.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
    #42
  43. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    Sweet! Looking forward to the details! Where are you located?
     
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  44. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    We're in MA.
     
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  45. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    Damn! I'm in CA. Still very interested in what you're up to. Looking forward to details when you are ready. Congrats and good luck!
     
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  46. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    looks like a mocked up MAX 200G to me...!!
    Shape, stringing pattern and everything points to the legend.
    Is this a cosmetic make over or an actual manufactured frame?
     
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  47. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    We plan on keeping the design close to the original, with some minor tweaks. The old style stringing pattern has the advantage of keeping the number of frame holes to a minimum; a structural advantage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
    #47
  48. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    OK, but the racket in the image, is that manufactured by you or is it a MAX 200G underneath?
     
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  49. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    ^ It's a mockup to test the graphics.
     
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  50. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    I quite like the white/grey/wood grain look.
    Very different from the original black PJ.
    I did do some customizing of my own. I just stripped it to the bare graphite and then coated it with a matt black heat resistant paint. Cured it with a heat gun and put a leather grip on it. Stealthy looking.
    Maybe I'd go for something differetn next time.......:)
     
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