Sweet spot of Max200g

Discussion in 'Classic Racquet Talk' started by MichaelChang, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Be careful what you wish. After months of work, research and generally jumping through hoops and loops, we are close to bringing back injection molding to tennis. Moreover, we plan on manufacturing the frame in the USA!!. Here's a picture of the prototype.

    [​IMG]
    Copyright DEPAUME LLC, 2013

    Stay tuned for details in the weeks to come.[/QUOTE]

    Looks like a beauty and I can't wait to use it on the courts ...
     
    #51
  2. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

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    Me too - I love this racquet. Even mine at 13 oz (373 grammes) is a joy to use.

    If you need this prototype tested in Australasia, I'm your man - er, woman! :)
     
    #52
  3. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Lucky you !
    I just want one and Im sure the prototype would be more valuable but maybe we could work out a deal or trade
     
    #53
  4. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    I'm confused about Yonex; Yonex, do you have a business plan?

    How many of these do you need to sell to make it work?

    I'm skeptical that there would be sufficient market. Can the head size be broadened to 95 square inches without structural problems popping up or excessive weight?

    Do you have some distribution notion; I'm guessing chiefly internet sales.

    Just curious. I love tennis and I love small business.
     
    #54
  5. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    I fully understand your skepticism, believe me. I wish I knew all the answers. We view it as a product for a niche. The question is how big is the niche.

    As someone was pointing out the PS 85 still sells well, the used 84 sq in Dunlops still sell at premium prices, and Yonex just introduced an 89 sq in. For a subset of players, including myself, a smaller racket is not necessarily an impediment. However, we know that the trend is towards larger rackets. We have to compromise.

    95 sq in is not in the plan yet because of weight, balance and flexibility issues. We're trying to stay as close as possible to the tried and true configuration, to maintain the playing characteristics.

    If you wish you can visit the company's website and feel free to send questions directly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    #55
  6. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    What:shock:

    Am confused, have you got your hands on the original machines from Dunlop?
    Last I heard they were sent somewhere in the early 90's, the Philipines maybe, I can't remember now. I don't see how you can make this cost effective otherwise and even then you'll have to sell 10000's I'd have thought. Interesting though:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2013
    #56
  7. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Who said "if there's a will there's a way"? I think we found a way.
     
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  8. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    OP: what's your website?
     
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  9. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    ^ depaume.com

    YonexRx32, a US friend has been trying to do the exact same thing as you and would love to get in contact with you to maybe team up. He visited me last year in Holland when he was overhere to raise funds for the project.
    contact me please: vtg(at)xs4all.nl
     
    #59
  10. 6-2/6-4/6-0

    6-2/6-4/6-0 Semi-Pro

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    Thanks Hans, actually, I am that friend. I have done a lot of work on this as well as part of another project that I was working on and would be very interested to join forces if you are so inclined. I have worked out the issues with weighting and larger head sizes as well. Please contact me at lance(at)dbqpartners(dot)com.
     
    #60
  11. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Check out depaume dot com
     
    #61
  12. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Thanks for the contact info! Will follow up in a couple of days, after I deal with a few pressing issues.
     
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  13. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    Yonex; I checked the site. You might guess that my moniker here has to do with my unabiding passion for the famed Dunlop Max 200 G.

    At any rate, it's difficult believing one could progress as far as you have without a business plan, but you've done well so far. Good luck!

    At 350g, I might buy one, etc. Right now I'm into Volkl. Cosmetically, the white is nice (I don't associate that with a "woman's racquet" which I think some of the younger crew here do, for whatever reason; I think instead of the great Prince frames of yore!). It's distinctive as well, which is something. I hope the 92-93 sq. inch head size works out; do you have a notion of the swingweight?
     
    #63
  14. Virginia

    Virginia Hall of Fame

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    max, do you play with the 200G?
     
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  15. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Max,
    Thanks for the kind words. Seems that I am not the only one who has experienced the magic of the Max. BTW, my initial thought was that Max was the name of the pet on your shoulder.
    Please note that the 350G is our target weight for the racket unstrung. We are aiming for the swingweight of the Max 200g.
     
    #65
  16. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    I did for about ten years or so, before I needed something better for my serve. Other than that area, for me it was a phenomenal racquet: I believe its inherent strengths drew new tennis skills from me, chiefly those involving getting to the new (great for approach shots) and volleying. It improved me. I don't think I can say that about any other frame.
     
    #66
  17. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Agree with this 100% my best tennis was clearly with 200g. Of course I was fitter faster and stronger. But it forced me to attack, always attack.

    The buttery hit was easy on the body too, and I played a lot of tennis in those days....often every day and often for hours. I vividly remember thinking at the time how lucky I was to have found them......
     
    #67
  18. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, the buttery hit was just outstanding. You never worried much about finding the sweetspot. I was always impressed that the frame isn't string sensitive: I could put just about anything in there and it would work.

    But the swingweight worked against my serve. Maybe I should have lifted weights or something.
     
    #68
  19. coachrick

    coachrick Hall of Fame

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    When I played the 300i, there were times I 'choked up' on the handle while serving...an instant 'adjustment' of the swingweight. That move was actually more useful for quick volleys since I developed my serve with the clubby wood rackets of the '70s(complete with pinkie dangling off the end of the handle).
     
    #69
  20. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Just out of curiosity; why the past tense? It sounds like both you and Max had great experiences with the racket but that the racket has somehow been relegated to the past. Why not use it now?
     
    #70
  21. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Actually bagged em again a couple of years ago for a few weeks, played fabulous for a bit but age and lack of fitness caught up with me because I physically can't attack the net like I used to. Quickly back to i Prestige MP's cause I can defend and attack from the baseline without loosing too much touch at the net when I do come in. I actually served very well with the 200 G's tho even when I bagged them recently but I got pushed off the baseline too much, thus the switch back. Unfortunately we all get old.....and the older we get of course the better we used to be!

    I usually strung 200G with gut but like Max says when I had to cheap out and put Prince syngut in em they did not drop off much in feel. Not a string sensitive stick and thus a great choice for the cheap player that is a good athlete with net game.

    Great great frames
     
    #71
  22. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    I also now am only down to 2 completely stripped of the flaky trim 200G's. Traded my mint one barely hit for a PT57 last year.

    Your prototypes however look amazing....
     
    #72
  23. 6-2/6-4/6-0

    6-2/6-4/6-0 Semi-Pro

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    I'm very curious about how this will progress...

    Also, just as a matter of curiosity, Yonex, have you looked into the feasibility of the paintjob you are showing in terms of repeatability and cost-effectiveness for serial production? I would imagine that the wood-grain effect might be prohibitive?

    This is all exciting, and there really are some cool ways to make the IMF concept work for a wide range of players. I still rattle around with my mix of 200G, 300i and 400i rackets on a regular basis. To me, there is something about the way old sticks play that has been lost in the quest for cheaper production and more innate spin/power...
     
    #73
  24. max

    max Hall of Fame

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    Oh, I'm keeping one, to go in my coffin with me when I'm buried: hope to play it on God's green fields. Here's something I wrote long ago. It's a little rough:



    Elegy to a Discontinued Tennis Racquet

    O Calamity! O Woe is me! They’ve dumped the Max 200 G!
    That classic frame!
    The Choice of Champs,
    Made in England, not in France.

    Wielded by McEnroe and by Graf.
    Stalwart Weapon---Victor’s Staff!
    Deployed by the Mighty Navratilova,
    And now it’s playing days are over.

    Injected plastic stuff, the frame
    Gives maximum flex and minimum pain.
    Comfort complete, you could play for hours
    With “Outstanding Vibration Dampening Powers”

    Oh they trot out frames with similar names,
    They tell you they’re new and they’re finer.
    But that’s not true---they lie to you
    And send you junk from China.

    Racquets come and racquets go.
    Clog attics above and basements below.
    And in this world of pointless change,
    Dunlop killed her company’s fame.
     
    #74
  25. hrstrat57

    hrstrat57 Hall of Fame

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    Ha ha that's pretty good.

    Still astounds me that a stick that looks like a plastic toy can play so good. Some crazy technology it the 200G. Brilliant stuff.
     
    #75
  26. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    MAX for president......LOL
     
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  27. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Great!

    <Applause> <Rising Ovation> <More Applause> for Max!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2013
    #77
  28. jimbo333

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    Haha:) Superb Max, superb!
     
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  29. MAX PLY

    MAX PLY Hall of Fame

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    Ditto---big 200G Kudos to Max.
     
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  30. 6-2/6-4/6-0

    6-2/6-4/6-0 Semi-Pro

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    Any progress with the dePaume project? It's been a few months since I've been here, but this is one thing that has me very interested.

    If it's not going anywhere, I may see about getting something together. It wouldn't be an exact replica of the IMF frames because the issues with head size, manufacturing, etc make it very difficult to put together a viable model. But, I think I've got the technology sorted out to make something that has the gross majority of IMF characteristics, but better ability to move your balance point around and tune the flex, much less expensive to produce, and no heads collapsing when they get over the 90-ish inch size.

    Big question is what's the market size, and could I raise enough money to make the project viable? Figure I'd need about $75,000-100,000 to get through prototyping, make the first molds, and patent the technology. All in, I think that we'd need a good $350 to 500K to get it going. That's a lot of rackets to sell, particularly given that cost of production would be roughly double what a typical racket costs and that's assuming best-case scenarios for production pricing on small-run stuff.

    Anyway, all just thoughts on a Tuesday...
     
    #80
  31. AlfaAce

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    Better get Rafa, Novak, or Andy to play it if you expect to make ANY money at all. Seriously.
     
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  32. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Seriously no pros are going to make such a switch even if it is a technology improvement
     
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  33. AlfaAce

    AlfaAce Rookie

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    Pretty much reinforcing my point. Some times you need to read between the lines.
     
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  34. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    ProKennex is selling worldwide without any endorsements what so ever. If any of these guys are able to get the rights of a tennis brand from the past such as Snauwaert they may stand a good chance if the marketing is right. Donnay as a racket manufacturer was dead too, remember, and now they are back in the game without any top 10 player's endorsements.
     
    #84
  35. High street sw19

    High street sw19 Rookie

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    Maybe I should start making wooden racquets again......?
     
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  36. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Well, some brands, including ProKennex, are back into incorporating wood in their racket manufacturing.
    Also ski and snowboard manufacturers are returning to wood as a material in certain components because of the shock absorbing and flexible properties.

    I "wood" certainly be interested in a modern made, open throat, racket that has wood as a main component. Not retro but with a modern look and feel.
     
    #86
  37. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Wood cores are awesome like the PK core rackets.
    I would think more expensive than the IMF graphite cores like the GROAT dunlop max 200g. Heck, just take a pure drive and IMF it and it would probably be a racket that many of us would love to hit, otherwise its the modern airshell baseline blaster that ends up hurting given the setup and hitting style.
     
    #87
  38. jimbo333

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    Your figures there are similar to the ones that Paul Angell (formerly of Vantage and now Angell) calculated when he looked into making some of these again when he was working for Dunlop.

    So basically it is too expensive to be profitable unfortunately.
     
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  39. High street sw19

    High street sw19 Rookie

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    It can be done but the numbers would need to add up, probably a pre sale of 3000 units at W/S 80-90 USD. would be needed.
     
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  40. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Progress updates for dePaume 350 G on twitter and blogspot

    Thanks to those asking about the progress of the project! As with any complex project there are many t's to cross and I's to dot and it takes time. To keep those interested updated, without unduly inconveniencing others, we have created a twitter account and a blogspot page where information will be posted as it becomes available. Our promise is that we won't post trivial stuff on either accounts. Best regards.
     
    #90
  41. joe sch

    joe sch Hall of Fame

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    Website and progress look great.
    Racket looks awesome.
    Looking forward to owning one ...
     
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  42. Praetorian

    Praetorian Professional

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    What's the twitter handle?
     
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  43. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    @dePaume

    depaume.blogspot.com
     
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  44. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    Young USTA pro's opinion

    Dear Max 200 enthusiasts, as I was hinting a few weeks ago, I sought the opinion of a young USTA pro. Indeed, what would be the purpose of resurrecting a technology which nobody can use anymore. Bear in mind that the man was 2 years old when the Max went out of production. He had never touched one until I approached him.

    Here's a short clip of the hitting session and his take.

    http://youtu.be/Sh_rBjzSQvQ

    In the course of the testing, Juan also compared the racket to two rackets we thought would be the closest in the modern arsenal. 93 sq in 18x20 string pattern. We did not include those in the clip but if you have questions, I may be able to answer them or ask Juan directly
     
    #94
  45. lendlmac

    lendlmac Rookie

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    I woudl surely purchase 2-3 racquest from you when this is ready for sale... please advise as to when you anticiapte making these avaulable through special order, etc.... thanks!! I own 9 original Max 200G's and yours looks very good!
     
    #95
  46. suwanee4712

    suwanee4712 Professional

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    I used the 200G for a couple of years in the 80's. I probably never served better in terms of velocity and kick with it. And I enjoyed being able to power through flat shots or angled topspin shots. But it was terrible for my net game. The extra weight sometimes caused me to be a smidge late. Some days ever volley went right into the tape.
     
    #96
  47. 70後

    70後 Semi-Pro

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    nvm..........


    I will just watch this space. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
    #97
  48. max_brat

    max_brat New User

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    I'll tell ya something, I was born the year the Max 200G went out of production, and so far I have yet to find a racquet that better suits my style of play. I have 2 of them, and though a modern racquet might be a better choice, I was wailing on the ball last time out to the point my serve and volley style was effective. I'd love to try this new "350 G" but more importantly, does anyone know where I can snag a dark green/teal/gold 200G pro for a reasonable price?
     
    #98
  49. Hannah19

    Hannah19 Professional

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    Yes. I do but I can not tell you because there is absolutely no trading and selling in this forum..:)
     
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  50. max_brat

    max_brat New User

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    Actually, my statement was rhetorical, more just a love for the racquet. However, I have posted a wanted posting in the correct forum section, so if you'd like to pass along the info, I'd be much obliged. Thanks!

    Sincerely,
    Max_Brat
     

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