T Fight 315?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Bubbagumptennis, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    The racquet swings at a weight I prefer.
     
  2. skeeter

    skeeter Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    661
    ^^^^^
    I"ve got just two grams at 2/10 and works great for me though, similar to Gads, replaced the leather grip with synthetic. Getting great plow through and depth with this racquet; and just love the resounding "thwack" it makes when you hit the sweet spot.Am curious to try the 4 corners approach, though. Any particular advantages, Gads, that you're finding with this spread versus 2/10 or 3/9?

    I'm also using the 18m version and getting curious to try out the 16. Heavy topspin is not my game; more traditional, driving game with some spin to keep it in and mix things up. But sounds like the 16 has a fairly tight pattern for a 16 and maybe a tad more power? Might be worth a demo. But, overall, been using this stick for about 4 months now and a definite two thumbs up.
     
  3. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,377
    no, inconsistent performance is due to many things other than the actual stroke or finding a more "user friendly" stick. there are so many variables that affect one's ability to hit consistently. you need to get the following right every time whether you're moving in to hit a short ball or you're moving back to set up for a deep ball or moving left/right to dig out a low ball or moving left/right and jumping to hit a jumping forehand/backhand, etc. IMO, the following variables have a greater effect on consistency than the racquet.

    full time job leading to lack of court time
    full time job + wife leading to lack of court time
    full time job + wife + kids leading to lack of court time
    full time job + wife + kids + home improvement projects leading to lack of court time

    lack of court time then leads to the following:
    inability to get consistently good spacing to the ball
    poor eye hand coordination
    poor timing
    rusty footwork

    this is a picture of someone with > 3.5 strokes but < 3.5 consistency. :)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
    JohnBPittsburgh likes this.
  4. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,644
    Location:
    Baseline
    Excellent post Mad Dog!

    There are folks at our club who literally hit balls ONLY on match day. Otherwise they don't practice and don't play casually. They frequently get spanked and never improve.

    Meanwhile my 11 year old hits nearly every day after school and his development has been dramatic. He can hit harder and with greater consistency than many (most?) of the adults at our club.

    He's also very picky about his frame. He uses a AG 4D 300 that he modified himself with my help. Based on his size, strength and stroke he prefers his frame setup a certain way. He even likes it to sound a certain way! :)

    Hardware will never substitute for court time. You need to spend time developing the anticipation, footwork, and timing which allows you to get to the ball early and setup for a solid, smooth stroke while focusing on the ball. As I tell my sons, actually hitting the ball is the least important part of hitting well. Your brain, your eyes, and your feet are more important.

    But having a frame tuned to your preferences can make that hitting experience for fruitful and comfortable.
     
  5. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,377
    Seems we share similar thoughts and racquet preferences. :) you like the Pure Storm GT. so do i. 8)

    Ditto to you as well. what you said is so true. i always get a good chuckle when i read the "can't beat a pusher" threads. the theme is always the same. OP has better looking strokes and loses to a player with crappy looking strokes. seems they fail to grasp that the game of tennis is so much more than the actual stroke. like you said, hitting the ball is just a small part of playing well. these "pushers" win because they have better anticipation, speed, timing, athleticism, and/or conditioning which makes them a better tennis player even though they have ugly strokes.
     
  6. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15,806
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    I don't disagree with anything you've said here. It's never JUST one thing or JUST the racquet causing inconsistencies. I never claimed that. But.....if you have poor timing...or bad footwork...or bad spacing or any of the issues you mentioned above...it's easier to get the ball back over the net with a racquet with a larger sweetspot, more free power and more manageable swingweight. Add a players racquet into this equation and the results won't be the best.

    I just think there are many on these threads that "think" their strokes are much better than they really are...myself previously included, that do themselves a disservice by not using something that makes the game easier.
    There are SO MANY other things to worry about to play consistent tennis (as you so nicely documented), that the racquet shouldn't be questionable in relationship to your own abilitites or technique. Just to be clear...I'm not talking about your specifically MD, as I know you are a high level player (4.5?). And I am not saying the TF315 can't be used succesfully by a 3.5, but more often than not, said player would greatly benefit from a more appropriate racquet.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  7. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15,806
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    Yes, but these pushers are also winning with their oversized, thick beamed frying pans and laughing at these so called "better players" with their "pretty strokes" and their Wilson 6.1 mids. Personally, I would rather come out on top on the scoreboard :)
     
  8. Carefree

    Carefree Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    225
    Jack,

    I completely agree with you even though I'm one of the lower level players who enjoys this racquet (decent intermediate player). But, I think that this goes back to old debates about whether it's good for players to learn with more demanding racquets because it emphasizes good technique, or just get a powerful racquet that will help with poor strokes.

    For me, personally, learning to play with a Pure Drive was terrible for my development overall based on what my end goals as a player are/were. I could get away with an awful backhand because I could always get the ball deep. Moving to a more "advanced" frame showed me that I needed better technique as my backhand was found out (not this frame, I've had a few in between).

    If my goal/play was only playing matches and worrying about results, then no this wouldn't be the racquet for me. However, my goal is to be a better player and since I'll never play at Wimbledon, I don't really care about winning matches (don't get me wrong, I get frustrated when I play poorly). I kind of like my losses (as much as anyone "likes" losing) as it shows me what I need to work on (the most!).

    To me, the improvement is the fun, like most of my other hobbies. Trying new racquets is fun. A hobby "rec stock" racquet is fun.

    This racquet doesn't make the game easier, but it does make it fun and it feels awfully good. I like that I can hit out with it with full strokes and am rewarded for doing so as well as punished for being sloppy.

    Just my opinion, of course.
     
  9. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,377
    that's a false assumption. players with solid strokes and fast swings will generally maintain that fast swing so if their timing is off (late) or they end up jamming themselves due to poor footwork & spacing, the ball usually ends up flying long. adding a stick w/ a larger sweetspot and more free power doesn't help. in this case a lower powered players stick does. 8)

    it's the players who chop, dink, bunt, or block back shots who can benefit more from the higher powered racquets because they don't generate enough RHS to get the ball deep enough with a lower powered stick.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  10. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,644
    Location:
    Baseline
    Unfortunately, with that sort of frame with its big SS and easy power, it's also easier to spray balls long or wide. There are lots of rec players condemned to tapping the ball for fear of hitting long. Use the sort of full stroke that pros teach with such a frame and you'll hit the back fence.

    Even the highly skilled TW playtesters will pan a string or frame for lack of control and fear of hitting long. If highly skilled players with years of experience find it difficult to control a given frame then what hope does a rec player have of developing proper skills when using such frames?

    Here's the thing. The tennis court's dimensions haven't changed in many decades and even the ball hasn't changed much in years and years. The environment is designed for wood frames with their small sizes and big flex. And then we introduce giant, stiff, light/fast, powerful frames for a space designed for very different frames.

    It's no wonder that so many people get TE from bad form when they're forced to fight their frames.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  11. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,377
    who ever wins is the better player on that day regardless of strokes or racquet type. as i said, being pretty while hitting the ball is just a SMALL part of tennis.
     
  12. Lavs

    Lavs Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Ok. I got a pair of 18m today in L3 grip.. the very first thing I did I weighted them as they were after unboxing (with plastic on a handle).. and difference was... 5g. Ok, I took off leathers from both, weighted again and... difference came with 0.5g! Good job TF!
    One leather was 17.3g whereas another - 21.5g
    So I left heavier and replaced light one with Head Leather tour (actually I did not feel the difference in feel between these 2 leathers - both are quite soft and comfortable)
    Eventually, strung with TF XR3 16g @ 58, with 2 overgrips, with Sampras dumpener and 3g in the hoop they are 341.6 and 341.9 respectively and with same balance - 32.5cm.
    Will hit on weekend...
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  13. cmendez79

    cmendez79 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    472
    I just ordered a pair of 16 m today, I ordered also to be identical in specs and Paul Reed from TW, found out of 16 rackets they had in stock 2 that were almost identical.

    Lets see how they play when I get them !!!
     
  14. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Messages:
    3,342
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    This is me :) but i still love using the tec 315.
     
  15. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    791
    Can anyone post pics of what the bumper guard looks like on the 315 ltd. 16x19? I have a pt-965af-1(PU) made for Verdasco, and i think this racquet truly is the same mold (except the one i have is extended at 27.25"). I'd be ecstatic if it uses the same grommets and bumperguard as my prostock. Here's some pics:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. JGads

    JGads Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,376
    Verdasco's frame is 27.25?? That's awesome. I've been going on and on to Mad Dog of late about how 27.25 just seems to be perfection for me - my best tennis seems to be coming from my pro stock Prestige and Radicals that are 27.25, and then I've been loving my latest Tec 315 addition, and then MD looked closer and noticed that that frame was curiously about 27.2 - just a hair shorter than my 27.25 sticks but clearly longer than all of our other Tec 315s
     
  17. tsongaali

    tsongaali Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2008
    Messages:
    791
    Does the bumperguard on the 315 16x19 look almost identical to this?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Lavs

    Lavs Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    1,116
    Here we go...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Federerkblade

    Federerkblade Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    Uk
    Anyone got pics of the 16 mains like Lavs has put these pics up
     
  20. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,644
    Location:
    Baseline
    We ordered one last night, 16m version.

    And then decided, oh, what the heck, get two in case my wife and I both like it.

    :)

    Should arrive Monday/Tuesday.
     
  21. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Tsongaali - yes, it does appear to be the same grommets.

    Stringwise, last night I used polybreak mains, hadn't played tennis in a couple weeks. Excellent strings but play a little twangy in a hybrid. If you are a full poly type of player, polybreak is awesome. I had very nice touch and spin, but I still prefer the tour bite soft mains in the 16 and full forten sweet in the 18.

    Coming back after being a bit sick and now being a little out of shape, I think a lower level player is going to struggle keeping the ball deep with this stick. You really need to have good footwork or you may tire yourself out over time. For me, serving with this racquet is fantastic, and while for the first 10 minutes, I struggled to get my timing back against an ex college player, after that I was back to setting up right and ripping the ball back at him. I am not sure I can suggest this stick to players with slow or bad footwork. If you pass that test, this stick is a dream. Honestly seeing a lot too much thought about stats and weight..this stick should be easy to set up. Put all your thought into your movement and prep if you want to utilize this stick well. It is a "set it and forget it" type of racquet. If you notice most of the players in here who have been playing a while and love the racquet figured out their lead setups pretty quickly and didn't stress that aspect too much.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  22. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,253
    I disagree. I've beaten a few players this year that I consider to be better players than I am. They have much nicer strokes, better serves and better court movement. I don't know how I beat them, I guess its because I don't go for winners, I just keep hitting the ball back. I never moonball and I always hit with equal to or greater pace than they do, but I'm not going for winners.

    They, however, try for winners ever 2nd or 3rd shot and they consistently dump it into the net.

    It must be an anomaly tho, because one is a 3.5, the other is a 3.0. Both of them consistently beat other 3.5s, whereas I have only beaten one 3.5 in my life, i lose to all others.
     
  23. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    You were the better player that day. Mad Dog is 100% correct in what he said.

    You CAN beat players better than you some days. It happens. If it didn't the Pro Tour would be very boring to watch.
     
  24. jackcrawford

    jackcrawford Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    873
    Read Brad Gilbert's Winning Ugly.
     
  25. Dgdavid

    Dgdavid Professional

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,054
    Location:
    Surrey, England
    100%. Read this.
     
  26. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15,806
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    Disagree. Today's frames and strings actually make it easier to swing harder and keep the ball within the lines. "Giant, stiff, light, powerful frames are designed for players who have compact strokes and don't posses the physical attributes that heavier players racquets require. But there is A LOT of room in between these 2 extremes. Nobody should play with a frame that doesn't allow them to take a full proper swing and keep the ball within the lines. Find the correct equation of weight, swingweight, power, flex and sweetspot for your own game and you're all set. You don't need to use something above your level or below it. Use what's the best fit. There's no
    rule that applies to everyone.
     
  27. P.Floyd

    P.Floyd Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    362
    Or one can learn to use the equipment.
     
  28. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15,806
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    In reality...if you have bad footwork, bad spacing or timing...hardly any racquet will rectify that situation adequately.

    Like PP says...if you have the proper footwork and strokes, then a players stick like the TF315 can be used properly. My argument, is that most players below upper 4.0's "think" they can handle these sticks and really can't. I also agree that equipment is just one part of the equation, but you don't want to complicate the entire picture with a questionable racquet choice.

    The real issue here is that these threads are common grounds for all levels of players and the upper level guys will talk about a racquet like the TF315 in such a positive and glowing way that peaks the interest of the guys that really have no business considering them. But human nature being what it is, they try them anyway. I used to be this way as well, but have since realized it's better to use something more appropriate for my own abilities.
    Sure I love to try out just about anything with strings on it, but when it comes down to putting my best effort on the court, I want the confidence in knowing my equipment matches my ability. That's all. Again, it's just my personal choice.
     
  29. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,253
    That's a good book! I haven't adopted everything he said, but I have certainly adopted a lot of his pre-match routines such as warming up and thinking about strategies vs the opponent at hand. I never just show up to the court, pull my racquet out of my bag and start hitting. There's definitely a lot of thought that goes into it.

    I have a lot of respect for Mr. Gilbert.
     
  30. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,644
    Location:
    Baseline
    I think Jack is sort of correct but there's more to the connection between frame and player.

    Jack's right, most players below 4.0 can't handle "players sticks" like this because they don't bother to develop decent tennis skills anyway, regardless of stick. They simply don't practice enough. OTOH, those frames marketed to low level players also encourage bad habits that inhibit development by letting players "cheat" their strokes and still get the ball SOMEHWERE over the net.

    The laws of physics dictate that for a ball to cross the net from one baseline to another it MUST move at some minimal speed. The laws of physics also dictate that when a string bed contacts the ball the impact will have certain effects on the player's arm, the racquet, and the path of the ball as it leaves the string bed.

    The lighter the frame, the larger the head, the more open the string pattern, the lower the SW and plow, and the more lively the string the less accurate the shot will be. Yes, larger heads have higher TW but there are limits to that benefit if the other factors overwhelm the equation.

    Light, large, open, low SW/plow = typical "low level racquet" which is very difficult to control. We have a friend who uses such a frame and has played for many years. She wins a lot because she taps the ball over the net with strokes that look like a kid playing table tennis. But she's stuck at 2.5/-3.0 after years of playing. If she tries to put any pace on the ball it sprays. She can only handle low pace, high arcing balls and can't generate her own pace. And she has chronic TE.

    Meanwhile, my 11 year old uses a frame modded to specs close to the TF315. It's a AG 4D 300: 98", 16 mains, flex ~61, static weight is 11.7 oz, balance is around 7 pts HL, SW is around 315 or so. In other words, what we on TT might call a "lighter" player's frame.

    He's had several lessons but is nothing like a tennis Spartan. We take the cheap route where we pay $10 towards his team's pro fee. He loves to hit just about every day after school. He loves his frame and hits consistently with amazing pace and topspin. He absolutely hated juniors frames which are lighter and less control oriented. He won all of his regular season matches, singles and doubles, and didn't suffer his first loss until playoffs. He has played with an adult from for about a year now and has better form and generates more pace and spin than many adults at our club.

    However, to use his frame and experience its benefits he can't "cheat". He turns his shoulders for pace. He moves to the ball well. He doesn't arm the ball. In fact, when he first migrated to this sort of frame he got lazy on serve and his shoulder hurt once during practice. I admonished him for not using his whole body to swing the frame and he was fine after that. His old light frame would let him arm the ball. Can't do that with his new frame.
     
  31. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,644
    Location:
    Baseline
     
  32. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15,806
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    Tim, we differ in philosophy in that you believe it's good to use a frame that "forces" you to have proper technique in order to get the ball back. I don't. I think you need to be mentally strong enough to have proper footwork and technique iregardless of what's in your hand. Using equipment that "forces" you to do such, IMO is a slippery slope. If it works for some, then by all means do it. I just believe you get the greatest overall benefit by doing all the right things with your body anyway and then hitting the ball with the proper racquet. Just be realistic with yourself and know how much you can and can't get away with regarding your equipment. Be realistic about how often you are able to use your body properly.
     
  33. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,446
    Location:
    Michigan
    In all honesty, I think that court performance at the 3.0-4.5 level really is determined by how much confidence you have in your shot making ability. Whether that is determined by your equipment, your athleticism, mental toughness, or a combination of these things, I think that it really depends on the persons mindset. This may be different for lower levels or higher levels, but for the average rec player I think that confidence and drive are the leading factors in whether you win or lose.
     
  34. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Whats any of this have to do with the Tec 315?
     
  35. rlau

    rlau Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,316
    Location:
    NL
    I totally agree!
     
  36. JGads

    JGads Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,376
    Yeah.. Can we please get back to users of this stick, setups, etc, rather than differing tennis racquet philosophy?
     
  37. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,446
    Location:
    Michigan
    I have a question about TF rackets in general...I've been told that they feel almost "metallic". What does that mean?
     
  38. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,253
    Absolutely nothing. Let's start talking about how awesome this frame is!

    Seriously though, it's an awesome frame. I've had it now for two weeks and have played 5 matches with it and haven't lost yet. I have three more matches this weekend, hopefully my lucky streak will continue!

    I've bumped up my tension too. 50 lbs was a bit too loose for me. I'm now @ 52 lbs (BHB7 17). I'm going to pick up a second frame in the next week or two and will string that @ 54 lbs and see how that feels.
     
  39. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    You can't go wrong with strings on this thing. What I like about the 16 mains is the forehand has a ton of up/down action on it, but it still is easy to flatten.

    Only issue is now and then you can put up a sitter for a good player to crush, but that is only if you don't hit through enough.

    I was watching some of that Belgium open and I saw the same thing happen to some pros, so I don't really mind that much.

    Last night I played some doubles for a while and my partner was asking me to roll back some serve returns and just get a nice angle. He was rather pleasantly surprised when my next return was off the court before halfway passing the service box. This thing hits serious angles.
     
  40. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    15,806
    Location:
    Roswell GA
    Sorry PP. I was partially responsible for the off topic derailment, but it started with discussion about who the 315 is appropriate for and then veered more off course after that. My apologies.
     
  41. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,644
    Location:
    Baseline
    My apologies too.

    Jack...you might want to start a new thread on your idea. Certainly an interesting topic.
     
  42. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    642
    BUMP! :twisted:

    Let's hear about the 315Ltd ...
     
  43. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    The 315 does not feel like a Tec. It feels like a Head racquet.
     
  44. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    642
    Some Head's are very very stiff/metallic frames ...

    What Head racket are you refering ? ...
     
  45. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Prestige, PT630, 57A
     
  46. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,760
    There are alot of different feeling Head racquets out there....
     
  47. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2004
    Messages:
    642
    Have you played much time with the PT630(PT57A) ?

    Can you compare both rackets?
     
  48. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,644
    Location:
    Baseline
    I noticed that besides the two new 315s TF frames START at a flex of 66 and have a beam of 22mm or thicker. Perhaps that's the reason for this reputation?

    In any case I've seen nothing to indicate that these two frames play anything like something that stiff and thick.

    Babolat's also have a reputation for being stiff but the PSLGT is one of the most comfortable frames I've used.
     
  49. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    21,261
    Location:
    On my iPhone
    Just read through this thread. There are multiple PT630 and 57A owners who are very happy with this stick. I have played the PT630 and it feels like the Tec 315 to me as well.

    See my post after.
     
  50. Torres

    Torres Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2011
    Messages:
    4,760
    MG, YT, IG, Graphene?
     

Share This Page