T Fight 315?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by Bubbagumptennis, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    How does poly cause TE/GE based on NTRP?
     
  2. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Poor technique. It's very rare to see a sub 4.0 or 4.5 hitter who does not arm the ball. I have never seen a 3.0 hitter with clean technique either. so that means tons of framing, arming and hitting out of position far too much.
     
  3. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    I agree that you see more of that at lower levels. I know that until recently I armed the ball a lot in really casual mix doubles. My arm would ache afterwards. Now I just volley and half volley a lot to avoid hitting too hard to some of the ladies and I'm fine. I've really focused on improving my anticipation skills which makes moving to the ball easier which makes hitting easier. Sometimes I feel like tennis instruction is backwards. They always start with hitting when thinking first and moving better make hitting easier!

    I guess I just don't see the connection with polyester. Seems to me that arming, framing, and struggling to hit from out of position is more a matter of racquet weight and SW than string.

    I know that I struggle with timing given my lower/mid skill level when using higher SW frames.

    Which, BTW, I must thank you again for your suggestion on dropping SW while buffing static weight.

    Last night I hit with friends using the specs in my signature below (343g, 7HL, SW 321). It felt great and I wasn't late vs fast serves like when my SW was 330+. But there was still enough mass and just enough SW for stability. Very comfortable and excellent control.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013
  4. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I think you missed what I am saying kind of.

    Arming, framing, poor footwork has little to do with the racquet. Basically the racquet you use just has to sync up with how you hit and your timing. The rest is all about technique.

    Do you set up on time for your strokes.Have good movement, hit clean, hit with high racquet head speed and generate your own pace?

    None of that really matters about the racquet at all.

    Arming the ball..that is technique .That is also why lower level players dont need poly strings. It is a waste of $$. Until you are breaking synthetic gut too fast to deal with, there is no real reason to not use it or a multi or full gut (if you want to spend the dough).

    None of this really has much to do with the racquet. I could give you a 9 ounce tweener, and if your footwork blows, you will still arm the ball and still be late on your contact point. And that is how lower level players get tennis elbow rather fast when they combine their play with poly strings.

    You are using gut mains, so its not as big of a deal,its really just overkill. If you have the cash, go for it. But in the Tfight 315 you could put forten sweet or Prince syn gut in there and hit the ball just as well at a 3.5 level. If that forten doesn't break before 8-10 hours, than you just saved a ton of money.
     
  5. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Got it. You're not saying the strings are the cause. Their value just can't be exploited at lower levels. Closer?

    The only thing I would disagree on is the value of a gut/poly hybrid, even at 3.5.

    I've tried other setups and nothing makes it as easy to generate topspin for me as gut/poly. I describe it as "casually accessible" spin. That extra spin gives me extra net clearance and a larger margin of safety inside the lines without having to swing has fast/hard as with other setups.

    In fact, extra mass + gut/poly means an easier hitting experience for me. I readily admit it's almost a crutch it's so easy to hit with spin while still not swinging that hard.

    Also, as far as arm comfort goes, I really enjoy the feeling of gut mains, even if the poly cross is "stiff" as with something like 4G. I get tons of control, easy power, and plenty of comfort.

    re: racquet weight/SW versus skill level I've come to believe that lighter, stiffer frames allow lower level players to "cheat" their strokes and still get the ball over the net. They don't need to meet the ball well prepared as with a heavier frame so anticipation and movement skills mean less. Just scramble to the ball, whack at it with poor form, and voila! The ball makes it over the net with relatively effective pace and depth.

    I think that's why so many lower/mid level players suffer arm injuries. They CAN arm the ball with their lighter, stiffer frames and still "play" tennis but using really poor, injury inducing form.
     
  6. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Hey Power Player, I took a vid last night of me hitting just before my forearm started to hurt. What would you say is one of the biggest issues with my technique? I can have a lesson with a local teaching pro next week, and it would give me some topics to discuss.

    It's just 30 seconds, and sorry for the poor quality of video. Not sure why youtube doesn't behave itself, the original was recorded on my iPhone @ 1900x1080 HD.

    I know that I don't bend my knees enough, and I know I still hit from my back leg too much... so I'm trying to work on those things.

    Thanks :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0k26hgP1b8
     
  7. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Anubis, it is tough to tell you much since you are hitting against the wall and not being moved around by a person.

    It looks like you arm the ball a bit, especially on the high balls. That is a movement thing..you want the ball more in your strike zone as much as possible. You are just jumping up and slapping at it.

    It's tough to tell how good your footwork is, and I'm not a great coach by any means. But it looks like you could play at a 3.5 level, and just have to work on using less arm.

    I would suggest Lock N Roll tennis. It is one of the best online resources I have seen that will help with that issue, and it's free.
     
  8. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the information.
     
  9. dgoran

    dgoran Hall of Fame

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    Well that pan is not too far from his pure drive stiffness and feel so he should feel right at home
     
  10. dgoran

    dgoran Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]

    figure you 18:20 guys will appreciate this...
     
  11. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    what do you mean on a 315 no less? Static weight is only 342 and SW feels fine. These things work great with some lead
     
  12. prodigy_blast

    prodigy_blast New User

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    Hi. Just got my Tec 315LTDs, 18M and 16M, then swapped the pallets to TK82S.



    The racket below is 18M without replacement grip but 1 yonex supergrap overgrip. Lead added, 1 gram, at 10/2, 0.5 gram each point.

    [​IMG]



    And the 16M with Tourna Tour grip. Lead added, 1.5 gram, at 10/2.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. DBrickshaw

    DBrickshaw New User

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    who is this guy? and anyone got any idea what his weight setup is?
     
  14. dgoran

    dgoran Hall of Fame

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    That's Aljaž Bedene Slovenian upcoming pro think ranked 71 he lost to Tsonga at this year French open. Use to be a head player but looks like switched to technifibre.
    Not sure what's his racquet specs but from the photo you can see lead at bridge area probably too match weight
     
  15. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    Is that lead or just a sticker?
     
  16. cmendez79

    cmendez79 Semi-Pro

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    I just hit with my new 315 ltd 16*19 , and damn its a great racket !!!

    The last year my main racket was a PT57A XL, very heavy static weight and a SW of 375, then I changed to Blade 93, I could handle it right then my last racket was the Volkl C10.

    But this 315 is the best racket I have used in a long time, it reminds me of the PT57A XL, but a lot lighter.

    It plays great is just missing a little bit of mass, but since I´m not getting any younger instead of adding more mass I want to get use to it as is.

    As soon I received it, in stock form I added 6 grams to the hoop, 2 grams at 3,9 and 12 .

    With the final specs of :

    Weight 338
    Balance: 32.4
    SW: 322

    My initial order was of 2 match rackets, but today I order another one, these are GREAT rackets !!!
     
  17. Carefree

    Carefree Rookie

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    To the guys that have tried lots of different leather grips:

    What's the tecnifibre leather grip like compared to the other usual suspects (Volkl, Bab, Wilson, Pacific).

    I assumed that it was in line with the Bab and Wilson which all seem to be well below the Head FC and Fairway.
     
  18. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Cmendez, that is a great setup for the 315. I found that a little lead at 12 in the 16 mains version really makes the stick come alive.

    As for leather, I have used Babolat and the Head leather that comes on their pro stock racquets. I am probably not a great source of info since I liked them all.
     
  19. ae1222

    ae1222 Semi-Pro

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    I would say their leather is pretty good, just a little softer than babolat. Not quite head or fairway but a decent substitute. I kept the TF grip on mine and liked it.
     
  20. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    What would be the difference between adding weight at 11 and 1 (4 grams total) and adding weight as you suggested? 6 grams @ 3, 9 and 12? Just curious, thanks.

    That's great! I love mine too. I just ordered another one yesterday, have a big tournament coming up this weekend and will spend some time matching my two frames.

    What kind of strings and tension are you putting in it?
     
  21. Carefree

    Carefree Rookie

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    Thanks guys. I don't plan on replacing mine, just curious as I don't see a lot of chatter about the Tec leather grip
     
  22. cmendez79

    cmendez79 Semi-Pro

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    I put Pro Line II @53 lbs....it felt great but if you ask me, I think the feeling of the strings were OK, I think I might go down, I felt a little low powered so I might go to 51 the next time
     
  23. Carefree

    Carefree Rookie

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    Do you think that Tecnifibre will continue to release this racquet year after year (or every 2 years like most manufacturers)? Generally, the rest of their line doesn't seem to change much spec wise, just the "new technologies".

    Considering that this is pretty much always sold out on TW and TWE, do you think other manufacturers will take this as a sign to produce more "rec stock" racquets?
     
  24. P.Floyd

    P.Floyd Rookie

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    Gentlemen,

    Have any of you tried adding lead immediately above the handle? Wow, so very, very impressive. :shock:
     
  25. JGads

    JGads Hall of Fame

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    More detail needed (where exactly, and how much?) I've long been a fan of this mod but haven't tried it on this frame.

    For me, the 'Yonex setup' - a gram at the four corners and 1/2 gram at 12 - is still proving so sweet.
     
  26. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Legend

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    i can confirm the yonex setup is indeed very, very sweet. hit w/ JG's stick tonight and the swingweight is very manageable now. love the feel, spin and heaviness this stick is capable of generating.
     
  27. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    Probably not, since its a "LTD" (limited edition)
     
  28. P.Floyd

    P.Floyd Rookie

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    Hi, JGads have to try the Yonex setup. As to my referenced setup, I went 4 grams at 11 and 1 respectively, with head guard from 9 to 3. Then went 4 grams (2 on each flat side) right above the handle. Still need to perfect the balance, almost certainly by reducing the weight at 11/1, but I was very impressed (the bite on the spin was amazing) with the addition of lead above the handle.
     
  29. P.Floyd

    P.Floyd Rookie

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    Definitely need to check this out!
     
  30. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Just wanted to round up the thoughts on people's lead positioning on these sticks..

    JGads: 1,1,1,1,0.5g @ 10, 2, 4, 8 and 12. (Total 4.5g)
    PPlayer: 2g @ 10-11, 2g @ 1-2 (total 4g)
    Cmendez: 2g each at 3,9,12 (total 6g)
    Amir75: 2g each at 3,9,12 + 4g in throat (total 10g)
    A Gerst: 6g above buttcap, 11g @ 10, 11g @ 2 (total 28g)
    badmice: 2g each @ 3, 9 + 1.5g in throat (total 5.5g)
    dgoran: 10g @ top of handle (total 10g)
    mykoh: 5, 5 @ 10, 2 + 9g in butt cap (total 19g)
    mykoh: 7, 7 @ 10, 2 + 9g in butt cap (total 23g)
    spinliferafa: 3g each @ 3,9 (6g total)
    sunshine22: 2g each @ 3,9,12 (6g total)
    anubis: 2g each @ 11, 1 (4g total)
    skeeter: 2g each @ 10,2 (4g total)

    Is that correct?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  31. JGads

    JGads Hall of Fame

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    Can simplify mine by just saying 1,1,1,1,.5 @ 10, 2, 4, 8 and 12. (Total 4.5g)

    Mine's really just at the corners now, and just a half gram at 12.

    Fantastic idea, btw, to round them all up into one post. Much easier.

    These 315s are so sweet. I have a decent little collection of pro stocks now that hit different balls, but in terms of pure feel on contact, these are my favorite. Pure butterscotch.
     
  32. P.Floyd

    P.Floyd Rookie

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    Hey, JGads

    At those amounts, have you thought about using head tape instead of lead? While it might be aesthetically ugly, might give you the same result with an even softer feel.
     
  33. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    the 315's are sweet frames

    How did you go with those other .2's?
     
  34. JGads

    JGads Hall of Fame

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    Wouldn't even want a softer feel, to be honest. The current setup feels perfect, no reason to change it for now.

    Just having my initial hits the last couple of nights. Solid. Not as sweet feeling as the 315s but most certainly more powerful. They fall right in line with my other .2s but they're lighter and standard length so there's more room for me to do some lead experimenting, unlike the others. Will most likely eventually lengthen the frame to 27.25, which is where my favorite sticks are all at right now. (My fave Tec is curiously about 27.2, longer than the other).

    All good in my racquet world. Between these Tecs and my pro stocks, the bag is loaded with heavenly frames.
     
  35. Carefree

    Carefree Rookie

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    That's what I was afraid of. However, I thought that maybe, since it was proving to be so popular, that they would possibly keep it as part of their line.
     
  36. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    I wouldn't worry. They will always have a TF315 model of some sort.
     
  37. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    That's what a lot of us Dunlop fans thought about the 200 series.

    Even that product line is being warped towards a Babolat APD clone. :(
     
  38. MAXXply

    MAXXply Hall of Fame

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    I'm puzzled as to why, after 900+ posts in this thread, next to no-one has posted their opinions about the 315 in the racket feedback section?
     
  39. JGads

    JGads Hall of Fame

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    The 315 Club is made up of distinguished gentlemen who feel no need to gloat in the 'customer feedback' section of TW. This thread will do, where we can talk amongst ourselves about our pro-stockian dandy. Our own knowledge is enough. No need to shout from the rafters. Time can be better spent on a post-victory Scotch.
     
  40. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Reading this post brought me great joy. Especially since I love Scotch.
     
  41. cmendez79

    cmendez79 Semi-Pro

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    I already had 3 of these , how many are you planning to stock up?

    Im planning to get 2 more of this , for me they are close to those classic raquects
     
  42. mykoh

    mykoh Rookie

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    changed my lead setup for SW 340, 32.2cm balance, 21.1 MGr/i

    JGads: 1,1,1,1,.5 @ 10, 2, 4, 8 and 12. (Total 4.5g)
    PPlayer: 2g @ 10-11, 2g @ 1-2 (total 4g)
    Cmendez: 2g each at 3,9,12 (total 6g)
    Amir75: 2g each at 3,9,12 + 4g in throat (total 10g)
    A Gerst: 6g above buttcap, 11g @ 10, 11g @ 2 (total 28g)
    badmice: 2g each @ 3, 9 + 1.5g in throat (total 5.5g)
    dgoran: 10g @ top of handle (total 10g)
    mykoh: 7, 7 @ 10, 2 + 9g in butt cap (total 23g)
    spinliferafa: 3g each @ 3,9 (6g total)
    sunshine22: 2g each @ 3,9,12 (6g total)
    anubis: 2g each @ 11, 1 (4g total)
    skeeter: 2g each @ 10,2 (4g total)
     
  43. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    Had a good 2 hours of hitting with this stick yesterday in stock form with / without OG.

    Difficult to know where to begin but some initial thoughts:
    • Very direct feedback through the stick when striking the ball. It lets you know exactly what you're doing, how cleanly you're striking the ball, where in the stringbed you're hitting the ball etc. The feel reminds me a bit of the YT Prestige/MP/Pro but without the brassiness, or the Amplifeel Wilson 6.1s or even the Amplifeel Blades, but without the vibrations/wobble. Very direct feel - either you'll like that or you won't. I'm not sure I'd describe it as plush, though I wouldn't say its necessarily harsh either. Direct.
    • Doesn't feel like a flexy stick at all. Certainly not RA59. Maybe I've got one from a stiffer batch, but it feels more like a RA64/65 stiffness stick. Definitely not flexy, though not necessarily stiff either. Stiffness to me feels like that of BLX Juice Pro ~ RA65(?) The 315 does feel like a solid one piece construction though, again like the BLX Juice Pro which also has a solid one piece construction type feel (though a heavier, slightly clunkier feel). The 315 doesn't feel 'buttery' to me. We're in the realms of subjectivity, but buttery to me means butter smooth, butter soft, ie plush, something like the Dunlop Rev Tour Pro 2 with its internal carbon rods. Very clean, direct response through the racquet though.
    • Unusual stick to hit with in stock form. It doesn't entirely feel complete to me. It feels like a stick that you have to really work to get the best results from. Very much a 'you get out what you put in' type stick. I found that I having to hit through the ball much more, concentrating on extension through the hitting zone, follow through, finish etc. This stick seems to play better you up/out/after the ball. It's a very adjustable and controlled orientated. Some of the variation you can produce with this stick is just crazy. It's perfectly playable in stock form but it really does lack mass. That said, strike the ball perfectly in the sweetspot and you will hit through the court. But you're talking striking the ball perfectly everytime. Against a big hitter, you're having to work overtime.
    • Sweetspot is in the area below the 10th cross ie slightly lower than the middle of the stringbed. Reminds me a bit of the old Tecnifibre VO2 320(?) though not quite as extreme as the Dunlop 4D 300T. It seems to be particular Tecnifbre quirk or the mold they used. If you want maximum power from the string, you're going to have to hit in the lower part of the stringbed. The upper part of the string is precise and still usable, but it doesn't have the same amount of power. It's a bit of a strange quick, because who's so precise that they can centre the ball in the lower of the stringbed when they want to drive down the court, and then typically use the upper half when hitting angles? I see why people are adding lead in the upper part of the hoop.
    • SW still feels too low though. There's simply no substitute for mass IMO. It's not a light racquet but it doesn't feel like it has enough weight to it in the right areas. Needs some adjustment to the weight distribution for my tastes with more weight in the handle and tip of the racquet. Really liked the way this racquet served though. Easy to serve with due to its lower weight and it was very precise on flat serves. Again it was a case of staying as loose as you can because there's no free power here.
    • Stick played well even with a synthetic gut. In fact, the extra power of the synthetic gut was useful given how relatively low powered the stick is.
    • Hoop doesn't feel like a 98 to me. Feels more like a 95/96 that's longer in length. The usable stringbed area doesn't feel any bigger than my Juice Pro (96/16x20) and feels smaller than the usable stringbed area on the Prestige MP.
    • Grip size seems to run small. That Technibre leather is particularly thin and I'm no fan of the rectangular grip shape which makes the grip even narrower on the forehand grip. I'd want a TK82S pallet on this.
    • From being fairly pleased with the way the stick played yesterday, I'm not so happy today as for some reason my wrist is absolutely killing me today having hit with this stick yesterday. I played a guy from my club's 2nd team yesterday and I had to work the stick so hard to maintain pace and finish points. Against heavy balls the stick felt that it was losing the battle of mass and getting pushed back in my hand which may explain why I've got wrist pain today.
    • String choice. This will be an interesting but in anything close to storm, I can't see a stiff, dead, low powered poly being a good match for this stick. A lively string with some feel might well suit this stick, Ashaway ZX perhaps, or a multi/nylon, or maybe a poly hyrbrid provided the poly isn't too low powered. All of that may change if the stick is weighted up.
    Based on initial impressions, the 315 Ltd is interesting, intriguing players stick but it needs customisation and alot more mass in the handle and upper hoop (and a TK82S). I suspect that this stick isn't going to play at its best until its been taken into the 345g+ range, which makes it quite different to how it was weighted in stock form. Couldn't they have got the weighting more in the right ball park in the first place? I just hope this stick doesn't turn out to be another Prestige MP - something that has elements of the sublime but no amount of tweaking gets it feeling quite right unless you reach some stratospherically high weight (managed it with YT PMP @ 352g but never with the IG PMP).

    Update

    Had an initial experimentation with lead, and like everyone else, this stick undoubtedly feels and plays better with some extra weight. 4g at 10/2, 4g at 10/2 and 2g at 12, 4g at 10/2 and 2g in the throat......they all work to varying degrees depending on what you're after. This is going long summer of fiddling with lead tape placements and amounts with this stick as the permutations are endless. For me, it certainly feels as if it improves with some additional lead in the upper hoop, possibly the throat, and possibly the handle. In what amounts, and precisely where, remains to be seen.....

    The easiest way I've found of experimenting with lead tape placement is to cut 1g strips of lead tape and then sandwich them between two strips of electrical tape until you settle on something more permanent. That way you can stick 'n peel as much or as little as you want, easily changing positions or amounts without damaging the paint or ending up with poisonous fingers. Obviously, you can lay down a baselayer of electrical tape across the upper hoop if you really want to be careful but I've found that its not strictly necessary.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Lead strips of various weights, pressed between a triple layer of electrical tape. Used some wax paper from a replacement grip to keep them sticky. Should make it easier to stick / peel / move / adjust between sets etc before hopefully settling on a more permanent placement....

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  44. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Spot on.

    All very true. Mass issue depends on opposition. Had no problem against softer hitters in stock form. Did not enjoy facing first serves from former college player in stock form

    Definitely an issue in stock form.

    Yup, accurate observation.

    Definitely true.

    And once you begin to add that mass it's absolutely amazing. I've added about 4+ grams in the head and about 4 grams under the grip directly under my hand. I also trimmed the grip to fit my one hand backhand to save some mass and keep the static weight to 340g.

    Currently playing with it at 340g, 320 SW, 7 HL balance. Seems almost perfect but I have another 3-6 grams static weight and 10 points of SW before I start reaching my personal maximums. So, still room to customize if need be.
     
  45. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Lessons learned!

    OK, so I got a 2nd one of these babies in a couple of days ago. My biggest mistake thus far was to treat it exactly the same as my other one. Can you guess what that was?

    I took this stick out today to play my first match in a local tournament. I had a bye in the round of 16, so this was the quarterfinals.

    Needless to say, everything went long. Couldn't keep anything in play, didn't know what to do. So I switched back to the other one and went on to win the match.

    I went home and weighed both sticks. The new one, as it turns out, is exactly 4 grams heavier than the other one! So I took off the 4g of lead that I put in the hoop and presto! Same exact weight as the other: 12 oz precisely.

    I guess this one will have to play with no lead until I get a balance board to figure out where the extra weight is.

    So lesson learned for me: measure twice, cut once!

    (still a great stick though)
     
  46. Carefree

    Carefree Rookie

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    Plus, it's not like there's a huge stock of these. Don't want everyone buying one before we all decide how many to get.
     
  47. MAXXply

    MAXXply Hall of Fame

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    Torres - or anyone else: I use size 1/4 for HEAD rackets with the standard TK82 pallet/gripshape. Does the 315 grip, including the leather, run significantly smaller so that a 3/8 in the 315 would be closer to a HEAD 1/4 ??
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  48. P.Floyd

    P.Floyd Rookie

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    No, sizing should be the same as they both use what appear to be Head pallets. As to the thickness of the leather, I don't believe it's that significant even if such differentiation exists.
     
  49. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Only danger here is that the experiment's results will be misleading given the weight of the electrical tape.

    8" of vinyl electrical tape weighs 1g.

    So if you use two 4" segments to sandwich 4" (or 1g) of lead tape you've actually doubled the weight you're testing to 2g. If you've only used one piece of vinyl tape you've still increased the mass by a whopping 50%.

    One solution is to increase the amount of lead tape used when implementing your final configuration. Or just use vinyl tape alone and forget the lead tape.

    A key advantage of vinyl over lead is that you can spread the mass over a very large surface area almost like adding another layer of graphite to the frame. This has a more even effect on the sweet spot compared to concentrated areas of lead. Vinyl also works great under the grip by providing some extra cushioning.

    OTOH, concentrated lead can pull the sweet spot in a given direction very precisely.

    For my matched 315s I used vinyl tape under the grip and, for one frame, spread 1/4" vinyl tape all around the hoop to match SW, mass, and balance with the other frame (one frame had stock SW of only 298 while the other was ~312 stock).

    Once fully matched I ended up using 1/4" lead tape from 7th main to 7th cross to bring SW up to 320 and some more vinyl tape under the grip to get a 7pt HL balance. Final static weight is 340g.

    I tried using vinyl tape for the final mod in the hoop but it proved too mushy in feel at the end. The concentrated lead felt crisper and more stable. Since the 315 is already soft this worked out just fine.
     
  50. Torres

    Torres Banned

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    As far as I aware they're the same size

    ie. Head TK82 L3 = TF TK82 L3
     

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