Talent vs. No talent

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by PascalMariaFan, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    If you find highlights of a talented player putting the beat down on a no talent, post them here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH3Ly9Tizc4

    The highlights of the 2006 Shanghai TMC RR between Nalbandian and Roddick I find to be the ultimate showcase of a talent making a mockery of a physical player.

    Nalbandian runs him around the court, is light on his feet, and anticipates everything.
    Putting in half as much effort as Roddick, yet generating more pace.

    Roddick's serve kept the score tight, as usual. But he never had a chance from the baseline, considering his stronger groundstroke is significantly worse than Nalbandian's weaker. Forehand vs. forehand.
     
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  2. NicolasH

    NicolasH Rookie

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    I don't think there's "No Talent" on tour. Even Gilbert had talent, his talent was winning matches.

    Cheers,
    n.
     
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  3. bumblebee

    bumblebee Rookie

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    roddick's got no talent, dats why hes been a consistent top 10...
     
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  4. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    Watch the highlights and you'll take back your sarcasm, I guarantee it.
    Roddick is nothing but an athletic goof with a pitcher's arm.

    When he plays Nalbandian this fact is as clear as day.
     
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  5. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    It's quite an indictment of tennis as a serious sport when an "athletic goof with a pitcher's arm" can be as successful as Roddick's been.
     
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  6. Stchamps

    Stchamps Banned

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    That's one match. I've seen Nalbandian play some terrible tennis before.
     
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  7. crawl4

    crawl4 Rookie

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    but your saying he has no talent..you could say he has to work harder then others but like you make it out as if he was crap when he first started playing tennis
     
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  8. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

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    Hmm...so that's why Roddick has a 3-2 winning record over Nalbandian, won in Dubai, won in San Jose, top 10 player since 2003?

    I "clearly" understand now.
     
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  9. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    Tennis hasn't evolved as much as other sports have.
    For instance table tennis, where no player in the top 1000 has a technical flaw to be found.

    The good news is it's getting better. Slowly, but gradually.
     
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  10. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    I'm talking talent here. Which resides in footwork, anticipation and ground game. Not tossing the ball into the air and hitting it.

    And, if you don't remember, not too long ago. Nalbandian was serving like Volandri. The only reason Roddick has wins over Nalbandian is because of his monster serve. The only reason Roddick has career accomplishments is because of his serve.
     
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  11. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    There are two possibilities here....1) you're actually familiar with the details of the playing styles of 1000 table tennis players, or 2) you're a pathologic liar who makes it up as he goes along. Which is it?
     
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  12. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    Of course. Everyone plays poorly on ocassion.
    But place an in-form Roddick against an in-form talent like Nalbandian and he'll be embarrassed every time.
     
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  13. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    no.1

    Care to post highlights of a Roddick loss?
    This thread needs contributions.
     
    #13
  14. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

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    Liez, football has odd happenings.

    Pippo Inzaghi is technically awful but is the top scorer in all European competitions, not forgetting his brace in the Champions League final last season. Also, Titus Bramble plays for a Premiership team.
     
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  15. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    bleh, team sports.
     
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  16. Challenger

    Challenger Semi-Pro

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    Well, it goes by what you define "talent" as. If serving at Roddick's level was easy and didn't require skill, then everyone on tour would be doing. Fact of the matter is, it does require talent to be able to serve at such spectacular levels. To get that high of a first serve percentage with the amount of power and accuracy he puts behind the ball is quite an achievement.

    Also, saying he'd be nothing without his serve may be true, but it's also a stupid argument. Federer wouldn't be top 10 without his forehand, Nadal wouldn't be anywhere without his pure speed, etc. So what? All this hypothetical BS is worthless and not a very good instrument for debate.

    Winning is the most important thing, and if the serve is that important of a shot, where a player who specializes in that alone can be a perennial Top 10 player, then it deserves to be something worthy of recognition. To dismiss it as a lesser ability is ridiculous and pretty much a testament to your own bias.
     
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  17. Fries-N-Gravy

    Fries-N-Gravy Semi-Pro

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    it takes talent to be as clumsy as roddick and be in the top ten. he's able to continue winning with his crappy footwork and strokes.
     
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  18. daku10

    daku10 New User

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    i seriously don't get it...if anything, you're admitting that roddick's got a monster serve but i hope you realize that developing such a serve takes talent...isn't the serve one of the hardest shots in tennis? on top of that, i don't get how a player with absolutely no talent would be consistently ranked in the top 10? do you think you have talent? if you think you have talent then i would like to ask you why roddick is top 10 material and you're not...i'm sure you probably didn't have the same opportunities as roddick, but shouldn't talent shine through anyway?
     
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  19. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    This is an old, overused arguement.
    Talent is in the brain. Not the body.
    Fast-twitch muscle fibre and strong wrist = big serve.
    The fact is, serving has no dependancy on the opponent, there are no variables or footwork adjustments to be made.

    Take an olympic javelin thrower. Teach them to hold a racquet. And they'll be hitting bombs in no time. Then ask them to tie their shoe laces, and they'll fall flat on their face.
    Serving well has no translation into other talents. Too often players with big serves have no clue when it comes to rallying.

    Wrong wrong wrong.
    Take away Roddick's serve, and replace it with a decent serve. He'll drop out of the top 200.
    Take away Federer's forehand or Nadal's speed and replace them with respectively decent attributes, and they'll be top 10, easy.
    This is not opinion, this is fact. Fed and Nadal have many tools to win points with. Roddick has one.


    Roddick has achieved what he's achieved fair and square. I won't take anything away from him.

    But I believe that the serve plays too major a role in tennis, and a decrease in the size of the service box is necesarry. A big server with no other talents beating a great like Federer. Tennis deserves better than that.
     
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  20. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    PascalMaria this thread is not much more intelligent than your thread about how Nadal is a disgrace to tennis for his moonballing every backhand thread.

    If you could be a top player without talent then there would be many many more people at the 6.0 level and above. There are a lot of people who work really hard but top out at 5.0 or 5.5 or even lower.

    Please stop reminding everyone about how limited your knowledge of tennis is with your threads.
     
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  21. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Roddick's a talented player for sure, just stupid. Watch at around 1:30, he actually tries to chip and charge to Nalbandian's backhand, that's just suicide.

    And yes, that was a total beat down. You can just see those passes coming before Nalbandian even hits them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2008
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  22. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    Like I've said. I don't blame Roddick for serving big. He is merely riding the wave that has been supplied to him by the slow-to-act enforcers of tennis ruling.
    Once the proper adjustments are made, he's done.

    This really should have taken place a decade ago, when the first wave of tennis players were athletic enough to exploit the length of the service box.
     
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  23. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Hmmm.... I guess talent is overated.

    If Nalbandian is so talented, why does he only have 8 career titles to Roddick's 25 career titles and a 2 to 3 record against Roddick? They both turned pro in the same year.

    Oh, and I guess a ton of talent doesn't win a grandslam for you either.....
     
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  24. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    My argument is over-flowing with logical genius.
    Does anyone want to pat me on the back.
     
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  25. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Hello, it's called a weapon. You're honestly one of the most annoying posters on this board.

    That's like saying all so and so has is hit groundstrokes. Obviously not, he's been consistently in the top 10 for years and he can bash with the big dogs.
     
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  26. jmsx521

    jmsx521 Hall of Fame

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    I'd say the TOP 1000 ATP & WTA have talent; they are already better than hundreds of thousands of people who play tennis across the world.
     
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  27. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    Damn you Americans and your blind patriotism.
    You'd be singing a different tune if your nation played on clay courts.

    And read the post above yours for the answer to your question.
     
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  28. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Your logic is pretty poor IMO. So what if Roddick only wins because of his serve? It's one of the most important shots in tennis. Look at Karlovic, VERY subpar groundies and he's a top 20 player. It doesn't matter how someone got to the top 10 or 20, if they make the top 20 than they're obviously doing something right.
     
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  29. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    Yes Roddick only has a big serve.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=sKdxp_V9tTA
     
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  30. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    NO HE CAN NOT BASH WITH THE BIG DOGS.
    Please read the thread. Thanks.
     
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  31. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    Can't you all just agree that I'm presenting too much logic for your brains to process.

    Listening to the naive Roddick fans of this forum makes me feel so good about myself.
     
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  32. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Oh, he can't because you said so?

    Get a life ASAP. Stop wasting forum space with this BS.
     
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  33. Stchamps

    Stchamps Banned

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    Listening to your down syndrome arguments make me feel really good about myself.
     
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  34. Vision84

    Vision84 Hall of Fame

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    Maybe a ban is in order to stop this troll.
     
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  35. PascalMariaFan

    PascalMariaFan Rookie

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    No. Because he simply can't.

    Don't tell me I'm the only person who actually watches tennis here.
     
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  36. Challenger

    Challenger Semi-Pro

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    Again, it comes down to your finicky definition of "talent". Your questionable use of examples aren't exactly clarifying the issue any further, either. Perfecting the serve is a product of more than just simply a synapse here and there, much like how proper footwork isn't solely some signal sent from the basal ganglia and cerebellar structures of the brain to corresponding muscle fibers. They both require a level of practice, conditioning, concentration, and effort.

    Talent is a special ability, regardless of whether it's properties are intellectual or physical. Besides, conditioning oneself to hit a serve in a specific manner consistently is not much different from conditioning oneself to move one's feet in a certain way in reaction to an oncoming shot. Thus, proper positioning around the court is no more of a talent than being able to strike fearsome groundies or a serve, since they're both mainly reflexive actions from years of conditioning.


    For a person who seems to pride himself on logic, you sure love to use hypotheticals a lot. You can pretend for it to be fact all you want, but it won't hold much credence unless you can provide something more substantial. Otherwise, this'll turn into "Batman could beat Spider-man if Spider-man didn't have super strength" or something childish along those lines.

    What your saying is just biased opinion...and there's nothing wrong with that. But passing off your personal preferences as if it's the way things should be for everyone is a bit absurd. If you need to constantly add qualifiers to assist Federer in winning, then just how great can he be? It'd be more insulting to him and the sport, than simply Roddick beating him.
     
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  37. Hot Sauce

    Hot Sauce Hall of Fame

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    #37
  38. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    UHHH, watch the link that Vision posted, some excellent baseline playing in there. If you still can't accept that Roddick CAN bash with the big dogs then don't even bother replying, I won't be responding to your lame trolling again.
     
    #38
  39. Challenger

    Challenger Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, I realized it a bit late. Makes me regret even replying to him. Whatever though...I still like to listen to myself talk, anyway.
     
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  40. daku10

    daku10 New User

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    A post like this only makes me wonder if you're doing all this only to increase your post count. Seriously, this topic has been discussed to death. Why keep opening a new thread???
     
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  41. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    Another absurd thread. Roddick has beaten Nadal, Federer and Djokovic this year and has a winning record against Nalbandian--I wish I didn't have talent like him!
     
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  42. Casey10s

    Casey10s Rookie

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    PascalMaria, so you don't like Roddick. Get a life and move on. Roddick seems to beat up on a couple of Frenchmen this weekend for not having talent.

    Lately, Nalbandian is partially commited to tennis. Most of last year he was out of shape and sometimes didn't even bother to show up for the match mentally. Roddick at least shows he is working on his game - look at his fitness and he shows up wanting to play. That's more than can be said of Nalbandian. Talent is being able to stay at the top and being able to put out your best every time. Nalbandian is wasting his.

    I would take Roddick any day to play a big match over having Nalbandian play it. At least I know what I am getting. All out effort. Nalbandian may decide to get the match over so he can party.

    Oh, by the way, if you take Federer and Nadal skills down a notch as you said, they would not be top 10, Probably barely in the top 50. A little edge goes a long way. Without the edge, the hounds will be at the door.
     
    #42
  43. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Facts from the ATP Website do not = Patriotism.

    Roddick has more career titles and a winning record against "talent" Nalbandian - FACT.

    Your supposed answer doesn't say a thing. As if big servers were created "in the last decade" get real.

    Well we aren't talking about clay courts - so your point is moot. Besides does talent only flourish on clay courts? I think not.
     
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  44. Ripster

    Ripster Hall of Fame

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    the reason Roddick's and Nalbandian's head to head is so close is because Nalbandian sometimes doesn't totally show up....he had match points against Roddick in the 2003 US Open, had he won that point, I'm sure he would have beaten Ferrero in the final and this would have given him his first Grand Slam.

    All things being equal, I'd take Nalbandian over Roddick, I"m going to side with the original poster that Nalbandian has more talent than Roddick, I think this is evident in his superior groundstrokes, anticipation, and even net play. I'll give Roddick the serve.
     
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  45. DashaandSafin

    DashaandSafin Hall of Fame

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    Ahh Troll! We need more like you!

    I love laughing at your stupidity and everyones respnses when they tear you apart. Its hilarious. If you think anyone in the top 10, especially Roddick who has been there virtually every week since 2003, has no talent, you madame, are retarded.
     
    #45
  46. kabob

    kabob Professional

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    Really? By your logic, Ivo Karlovic would be a consistent top-10 player, too :rolleyes: Please stow your bias. While Roddick does play small-ball and grinds out points, he is by no means a one-dimensional player. You cannot be a consistent top-10 player with only a single weapon.
     
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  47. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    i really wish people would wait to judge him until they see him up close. roddick on tv is ugly and bad in person you can see how clean he hits the ball. his backhand which is his weaker side breaks down every hitting partner they bring in. ive seen him many times and the guy hits the cover off the ball and is consistent with it. no one beats the rog without having an insane talent level. anyone around tennis knows tv and youtube do not give an accurate depiction of how good guys really are.
     
    #47
  48. superman1

    superman1 Legend

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    Roddick beat Nalbandian where it mattered most, at the semis of the US Open. Nalbandian had it in the palm of his hands, and lost it.

    Nalbandian is a MONSTER at the end of the year on the indoor courts. Not many guys can handle him there.
     
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  49. pow

    pow Hall of Fame

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    Maria fan??!
    Roddick has no talent and she does?!

    Anyways, everyone in the top 100 has talent in some form or another, Roddick has beaten everyone worthwhile and pure muscle doesn't get 155mph serves.
     
    #49
  50. pow

    pow Hall of Fame

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    lmao! so harsh but sooo true.
     
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