Targeting the net player on a return of serve

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by time_fly, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    I dont know why people do that in doubles. I can see why people do it in singles, but in doubles you're only setting up a hurting for your partner. Unless of course that serve is an "ace". haha.

    That serve is probably amazing on grass or clay.
     
  2. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    FWIW I've played against the San Pablo Park 4.0 team many times. I've never seen a 100mph forehand from any of them.
     
  3. blip

    blip Rookie

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    Didn't read all responses but I do it when there is an over active net player, or if they are playing funky formations. I expect that its easier to go at him then try to go away from him whiles he's moving around.
     
  4. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I'm in total shock that your info contradicts LeeD. Still reeling...
     
  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Mikeler, you DO know the difference between hitting sessions and MATCH play, don't you?
    I targeted you, because you, of all the dissers, actually play tennis.
    Did I say the 4.0 team hit's those shots in match play?
    I think anyone who's 6'2" or taller, fully mature, and over 190lbs, can hit a 90 mph return of serve, if the serve goes to the forehand side, in the sweetspot, and the point is not important.
    And that guy who said he played against SanPablo's 4.0 team, what number did you play? I"ve hit with Marcus and Johnny quite a few times, and I KNOW they can hit a 90+ forehand if I"m stupid enough to hit into the strikepoints.
     
  6. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    Played the D1 line last year twice against San Pablo. I could probably hit a 90+ forehand as well if everything lines up perfectly. I'd have to be pretty lucky to actually do it in a match though.
     
  7. anantak2k

    anantak2k Semi-Pro

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    Only GIFTED players go to San Pablo Park. :p :twisted:
     
  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Kyle says he can hit a 90 mph forehand, but doesn't CHOOSE to do so because in match play, his opponent is not feeding him balls.
    We saw the vid. Strikezone forehand, like a feed.
    ANY courts where strong 4.0's congregate, someone CAN hit over a 90 mph forehand. Whether they choose to try depends on confidence, importance of point, need to show off, need to teach a lesson, and how predictable the INCOMING ball is.
     
  9. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    What about falling 4.0s?
     
  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    No chance I can hit a forehand as fast as I can hit a 1hbh.
    I'd say, the difference is easy 25 mph.
    So, 40 mph for forehands, 65 for fast backhands.
    And after hitting either, my back seizes up, convulses, and I"m left laying on the court.
    I tried some self feeds yesterday. Stopped after hitting 10 balls each side, walking bent over and protecting my twitching lower back.
     
  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Did you happen to notice an old lefty guy serving at 130 mph? I heard there is someone like that. Also, his second serves kick up 6 feet at the back fence.
     
  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    He probably missed it when Tanner showed up there, around 35 years ago, according to talk legend.
    But he did see your 45 mph serves, 35 mph forehands, and 30 mph backhands on video.
     
  13. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Can you hear the backpedalling?

    Just about everyone on these Boards assumes if someone says they "can hit" this or that shot, they mean they own that shot. That they pull it off in matchplay. It is part of their repetoir.

    No one cares if you can hit a Roger Federer tweener for a "winner"... if it's on the practice court with your buds feeding you creampuffs.
     
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    There is no backpedaling, I watched as the team was warming up, prior to driving over to another court, in another city.
    YOU, OTOH, have all the specifics DEAD PLAIN WRONG!
    Nobody ever said that guy on vid can replicate that shot EVER again. He hit ONE lucky winner, that's all.
    NO ATP pro can hit that shot over and over, at least not higher than 30% of the time.
    Consider, it was a RETURN of serve. Why would any server repeat serving to that location, with that speed and spin?
     
  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    AND, that was probably a practice set, the player's loose and feeling no pressure.
    Does Roddick OWN a 152 mph serve? We know he CAN serve that speed.
     
  16. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    Well, for starters, the serve in the video was not "like a feed." Just because Wawrinka can run around a serve and hit a clean forehand winner doesnt mean Federers second serve was a "feed". The incoming ball is almost irrelevant at this point. We're all challenging the actual ability to hit 100 mph forehands even if they drop-feed themselves. Most forehand strokes themselves are not even capable of hitting that speed.

    To hit a forehand that speed you cannot take back below your waist and finish over your shoulder... which is "normal". You need to take the racket back to your shoulder... and finish at your waist... which is opposite to normal teaching methods.

    If you look at the video you can clearly see he's hitting a sidewards overhead. How many people do you know have a forehand capable of being modified in such a way? Then, even if they have an actually "flat" forehand, how many have the strength to generate that speed?

    To say "Every high end 4.0 circle has someone that can hit a 100 mph forehand" is just not believable. A forehand like that is exceptionally rare, even among the elite.
     
  17. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    My understanding is the guy's an ex-tour player; moved on to hitting partner for various pros - henin, monfils, karlovic etc. No practice set but doubles tourney with $3000 payout that's he's won a couple times teaming with a UH player.

    Thank goodness no 4.0 is hitting shots like that. Or remotely like that. Even with the SanPabloPark magic.
     
  18. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    Correct.

    That event is the final of the "triple crown" here. The winner (in points over the series) gets a wildcard into one of the challengers.

    He's definitely a "high end player" and not "just" a "D1" athlete. I've played in two of those events and got smashed. Then... got smashed... (with beer) afterwards. That forehand is amazing in person and im pretty sure not many people have even seen how fast that is, let a lone played against one, and definitely dont hit one themselves. That's why I just cant believe a statement like "Every high end 4.0 circle has someone who can hit 100 mph forehands."
     
  19. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Nice "bait and switch". You can downplay the vid all you want. I wasn't talking about the video, I was talking about the unusual skillset descriptions for the folks at the park near you.
     
  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    And that's why lots of you never had a chance to make it at any good level of play!
    You are awed by the shots of the better players.
    Don't be.
    You are just as big.
    You are just as strong, or stronger.
    Your reflexes are just as fast, but need some training.
    The ball is the same size for him as for you.
    What? Are you handicapped?
     
  21. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    I like to think some have gotten a small taste of hitting against an excellent player and are realistic at how much better they really are.... One should be awed by an Isner kick serve; not ridiculously believing they hit and return similar shots down at the rec park.

    Thinking of this I'm still amusing by a story a few days ago. A couple 25 yo ladies came to the city park. Talked a bit and learned they were ex-singles players from a *very* prestigious east coast DIII tennis school and program. Watched them play a set next to us. Afterwards our group of rec court hackers (guys I beat and lose to) were in post-match discussions and I jokingly questioned if we could take a game. Blank stares of disbelief. One thought 6-1 which I conceded until realizing he meant he'd win!! The ultimate group 35 yo pusher chimed in he would just "run her over the court." IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE. Still chuckle at the discussion….. Tennis players are priceless.
     
  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I agree, we cannot hit Isner's, Ivo's, Milos', Groth speed of serve.
    But, we can hit a Kohlshreiber, Hewitt, Meltzer forehand, if we're their size and strength, which I am.
    As to your example, the current NorCal USTA Girl's 12 number FOUR plays on our courts. She slaughter's all the 3.5's, and the inexperienced 4.0's on the court. She has not taken a set (out of 3) against an experienced 4.0.
     
  23. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    I find it amusing to see rec guys who don't recognize how good girls can play. (Or drastically overestimate their own playing.)
     
  24. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    What is amazing is that some of my buds, who are solid 4.0, can beat me sometimes, but ALWAYS lose badly to the girls.
    Could it be something like Matt Lin's syndrome, where he always plays badly when girls are on the court?
    I never had that problem, hitting with lots of really good female tennis players while I was in my 2nd-4th years of tennis. I seem to be able to get off my butt and play with good mechanics against women, but often get lazy against my peers.
     
  25. FedLIKEnot

    FedLIKEnot Rookie

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    As a former college albeit small college basketball player I thought no sports players could be as disillusioned as basketball players. Especially on the rec level. No one knows there own games and what they can and cant do. The guy who cant dribble only wants to drive the hoop and loses the ball. The guy who cant shoot only wants to throw up trees, and air balls them.

    But then I started playing tennis and it may not be as bad but it isn't good either. Some of the comment in this thread sort of prove that.

    Happy hitting though just the same.
     
  26. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    That attitude is exactly what I was trying to get at in my previous post refering to "owning" a shot before claiming you can "hit" a shot.

    Your above post is of course true, within the limited scope within which you present it. Yes, I can hit Pro shots that land in for a winner... at extremely low percentages. That's why I'm not a Pro or anywhere close to one (and neither are you and the crew at the magic park). Whether I choose to attempt it in matchplay and whether a video camera happens to be pointed at me when I do so is a random event which utimately doesn't matter.

    The bottom line is, even though I could get a Pro shot in on rare occasions, I shouldn't claim to be able to hit that shot, since such a claim implies that I can hit it routinely and gives a completely misleading impression of my skillset.
     
  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You can claim whatever you want.
    I never said I know guys who "claim" they can hit that forehand all day, any day.
    I only said I know a few big strong players who can hit that kind of forehand....ONCE, and once is plenty enough.
    YOU die once, that's your final call, and it's good enough.
     
  28. Sox Fan

    Sox Fan New User

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    A

    if you are afraid of getting hit, don't stand at the net.

    Simple.
     
  29. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    I'm 4.0 and played well last night at practice. A couple of my forehands felt like they were going 100 mph but they were probably closer to 70 mph. Oh well, they got the job done and felt sweet.
     

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