Tennis Channel - The 100 GOAT : 1, Roger Federer. 2, Rod Laver. 5, Pete Sampras.

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by tennissportsrog, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    100 – Michael Chang, M, USA

    99 – Ann Haydon Jones, F, GBR

    98 – Henry Bunny Austin, M, GBR

    97 – Pat Cash, M, AUS

    96 – Manuel Orantes, M, ESP

    95 – Thomas Muster, M, AUT

    94 – Andy Roddick, M, USA

    93 – Nicola Pietrangeli, M, ITA

    92 – Svetlana Kuznetsova, F, RUS

    91 – Shirley Fry Irvin, F, USA

    90 – Bill Johnston, M, USA

    89 – Dorothea Lambert Chambers, F, GBR

    88 – Amelie Mauresmo, F, FRA

    87 – Mary Pierce, F, FRA

    86 – Tony Wilding, M, NZL

    85 – Yannick Noah, M, FRA

    84 – Norman Brookes, M, AUS

    83 – Jan Kodes, M, CZE

    82 – Yevgeny Kafelnikov, M, RUS

    81 – Vic Seixas, M, USA

    80 – Marat Safin, M, RUS

    79 – Gabriela Sabatini, F, ARG

    78 – Ashley Cooper, M, AUS

    77 – Molla Mallory, F, USA

    76 – William Renshaw, M, GBR

    75 – Pauline Betz Addie, F, USA

    74 – Tony Roche, M, AUS

    73 – Jaroslav Drobny, M, CZE

    72 – Gottfried Von Cramm, M, GER

    71 – Maria Sharapova, F, RUS

    70 – Patrick Rafter , M, AUS
     
    #1
  2. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    69 – Louise Brough , F, USA

    68 – Helen Hull Jacobs , F, USA

    67 – Fred Stolle , M, AUS

    66 – Bobby Riggs , M, USA

    65 – Pancho Segura , M, ECU

    64 – Ellsworth Vines , M, USA

    63 – Lleyton Hewitt , M, AUS

    62 – Hana Mandlikova , F, CZE

    61 – Neale Fraser , M, AUS

    60 – Virginia Wade , F, GBR

    59 – Margaret Osborne Dupont, F, USA

    58 – Alice Marble , F, USA

    57 – Jennifer Capriati , F, USA

    56 – Stan Smith, M, USA

    55 – Gustavo Kuerten, M, BRA

    54 – Manuel Santana, M, ESP

    53 – Tracy Austin, F, USA

    52 – Jack Crawford, M, AUS

    51 – Doris Hart, F, USA

    50 – Tony Trabert, M, USA

    49 – Ilie Nastase , M, ROM

    48 – Frank Sedgman, M, AUS

    47 – Jean Borotra, M, FRA

    46 – Henri Cochet, M, FRA

    45 – Kim Clijsters, F, BEL

    44 – Arantxa Sanchez Vicario, F, ESP

    43 – Lindsay Davenport, F, USA

    42 – Jim Courier, M, USA

    41 – Guillermo Vilas, M, ARG

    40 – Novak Djokovic, M, SRB

    39 – Althea Gibson, F, USA

    38 – Maria Bueno, M, BRA

    37 – Evonne Goolagong Cawley, F, AUS

    36 – Rene Lacoste, M, FRA

    35 – Pancho Gonzalez, M, USA

    34 – Jack Kramer, M, USA

    33 – Mats Wilander, M, SWE

    32 – Lew Hoad, M, AUS

    31 – John Newcombe, M, AUS
     
    #2
  3. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    30 – Martina Hingis, F, SUI

    29 – Helen Wills Moody Roark, F, USA

    28 – Arthur Ashe, M, USA

    27 – Maureen Connolly Brinker, F, USA

    26 – Justine Henin, F, BEL

    25 – Stefan Edberg, M, SWE

    24 – Suzanne Lenglen, F, FRA

    23 – Fred Perry, M, GBR

    22 – Venus Williams, F, USA

    21 – Boris Becker, M, GER

    20 – Ken Rosewall, M, AUS

    19 – Monica Seles, F, USA

    18 – Ivan Lendl, M, CZE

    17 – Roy Emerson, M, AUS

    16 – Bill Tilden, M, USA

    15 – Jimmy Connors, M, USA

    14 – Serena Williams, F, USA

    13 – John McEnroe, M, USA

    12 – Andre Agassi, M, USA

    11 – Don Budge, M, USA
     
    #3
  4. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    10 – Billie Jean King, F, USA

    9 – Chris Evert, F, USA

    8 – Margaret Court, F, AUS

    7 – Bjorn Borg, M, SWE

    6 – Rafael Nadal, M, ESP

    5 – Pete Sampras, M, USA

    4 – Martina Navratilova, F, USA/CZE

    3 – Steffi Graf, F, GER

    2 – Rod Laver, M, AUS

    1 – Roger Federer, M, SUI



    ---------
     
    #4
  5. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    steffi graf and margret court should be co - no. 3, as both has won more than 20 slams and CYGS

    ok graf has olympics gold which is lacked by court, but court has won 24 slams compare to steffi 22
     
    #5
  6. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    #6
  7. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    Should not bundle men and women together.
     
    Cenarius likes this.
    #7
  8. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    Steffi Graf = Tragedy of Seles.

    Margret Court = Too old era.


    ??
     
    #8
  9. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    Yes. That is why Navratilova is WGOAT
     
    #9
  10. firepanda

    firepanda Professional

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    Chico, for the first time on this forum, I completely agree with you.
     
    #10
  11. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    Why first time? I like red pandas too.
     
    #11
  12. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    yeah these combined lists make no sense.
     
    #12
  13. tennissportsrog

    tennissportsrog Rookie

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    I also think so. It is selection of a Tennis Channel at any rate.
     
    #13
  14. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    14 – Serena Williams

    Ouch.. Not top 10?
     
    #14
  15. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Any list that has Emerson above Gonzales and Kramer loses all credibility.
     
    #15
  16. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Just separate the men and women from the list if you want to compare them to the same gender..
     
    #16
  17. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    Agree with Chico, don't like the idea to put men and women together.

    Murray not in the list
    Djokovic 40.
     
    #17
  18. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Djokovic has moved up quite a bit now since he's got 6 slams. However, the position remains the same for these players:

    Men
    1. Federer
    2. Laver

    Women
    1. Graf
    2. Martina
     
    #18
  19. TERRASTAR18

    TERRASTAR18 Hall of Fame

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    it was a stupid list. serena as a player is top 7.
     
    #19
  20. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Its the Tennis Channel, which is as serious a tennis source as watching Dr. Oz for a serious medical opinion.
     
    #20
  21. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    ^^^^
    This +1
     
    #21
  22. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Anonymous TTW posters are much more knowledgeable than the experts/historians.:rolleyes:
     
    #22
  23. chandu612

    chandu612 Guest

    I saw the show...All they talked about is Number of slams and H2H.
    No mention of no of weeks at no 1, WTF's . So much for the TW experts here.
     
    #23
  24. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Pancho Gonzales, Ranked 35. Thats all you need to know. JOKE list. Pancho is a top 2-3 player ever, male or female
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    #24
  25. Mr.Lob

    Mr.Lob Hall of Fame

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    Spot on list.

    Good idea to combine men and women. One's level of greatness is not gender related.
     
    #25
  26. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yes, and Steve Flink is a joke according to you.
     
    #26
  27. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    These are not historians. They are most likely people like Mark Petchey and Jon Wertheim doing the lists. No real tennis historian would have Roy Emerson 11 spots above Pancho Gonalezes. Anyone who knows jack squat about tennis knows that is an epic joke that renders anything else uncredible. Along with the great Elsworth Vines being ranked down at 64th. A true tennis historian like Bud Collins, Dan Maskell, Jack Kramer, or Jon Barrett would have a heart attack if they were alive (well a couple of them still are) and saw those rankings.

    Anyway you have insisted Henin is superior to Venus, yet Venus is ranked ahead so I guess even you arent willing to cede your opinions to these great "historians" unless it suits you.

    One thing for sure. If the list were redone today Nadal and Serena would be way higher. Probably atleast the 3rd highest man and 3rd highest women on the list.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    #27
  28. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Right on point--the reason why members with conflicting positions are easy to brush off.
     
    #28
  29. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    And also.... Why exactly would Federer be above Graf as far as resumes are concerned? Her resume put's Roger's to shame

    I think we all know what type of Fan made this list ROFLMAO
     
    #29
  30. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Yes, all sensible observers can see that this is the true order of things at present. Of course, Serena may rise to No 2 (and I hope she does get there, instead of Martina).

    In terms of Nadal, he is currently No 6 all-time, and still has to pass Rosewall, Gonzales, Sampras and Laver before he can overcome Federer, the GOAT.
     
    #30
  31. Incognito

    Incognito Hall of Fame

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    After that list was made...GOATrena and Nadal won 4 majors each...
     
    #31
  32. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    Similar lists published in 2000 didn't even have Federer in the top 10!! Scandalous!!

    :shock:
     
    #32
  33. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    Only in your own little planet. NOBODY but you thinks he is that low. Heck even the mostly bogus Tennis Channel list had him at #4 when he was much less accomplished than he is now. I like how you state a stupid opinion on your part that makes you look like an idiot as if it were a fact. That is like me saying "In terms of Federer, he is currently No 12 all-time" and stating it as if it were a commonly accepted fact.

    Anyway like I said if Nadal were No. 6, no way in hell would Federer ever be able to be #1 then. Federer would be no higher than No. 4 in that case.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    #33
  34. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Incorrect - you should visit the Former Pro Player forum, where posters say Nadal is No 8 and does not deserve to be placed among their 'big seven' (chronologically, Tilden/Gonzales/Rosewall/Laver/Borg/Sampras/Federer).

    So, I get criticised in that forum for placing him too high, and on this forum for placing him too low!
     
    #34
  35. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    In the real World nobody places him outside the top 3 or 4 at this point, and if you are going to godify the Former Pro Posters who place Nadal as low as No. 8 (which are extremely few) those are the same ones who all place Federer 5th and lower, so if that is your representation of "reality" reality would be Federer being nowhere near the GOAT either. Like always you enjoy talking out of both sides to suit your purposes. Actually here is a challenge for you, quote me one poster who has Federer at #1 and still has Nadal as low as 8th. Good luck.

    If you really think Nadal is as low as 6th then fine, but dont state it as if that is a commonly believed fact, since that is far from the truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    #35
  36. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    I'm not saying that they represent the majority's viewpoint, but, I was just proving you wrong that "nobody" ranks him as low as No 6, when a number of posters in that forum who have followed tennis for many decades actually rank him lower. Too low, in fact.

    They also rate Federer too low, as you have noted. He should be the GOAT (or debatably, below Laver) in everyone's list.
     
    #36
  37. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    So basically you even admit the group of opinions you use to place Federer at #1 is an entirely different group than the one you are using to place Nadal as low as #6 (and the latter would never rank Federer #1 either which you concede). Hence why your initial statement in this thread was flawed to begin with.

    As I dont if you really think Nadal is only #6 then fine, but dont state it as if that is a commonly accepted opinion or consensus in reality. Only amongst an excessive golden oldies crowd who generally also rank Federer outside the top 3, and some who even have Federer outside the top 5 as well.

    Find me one poster or quote one expert who has Federer at #1 all time and Nadal at 6th or lower (other than a known turd like Monfed). At this point anyone who has Federer #1 has Nadal no lower than 3rd or 4th. I have Federer at #2 and Nadal at #3 personally.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    #37
  38. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    Dude, I don't use anyone else's opinions to do my rankings. They are a strong set of rankings though, as I pay due respect to greats from all eras.
     
    #38
  39. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    They quite obviously are not, as there isnt a single faction that would concur with them collectively (Federer at #1 while Nadal being down at #6) something even you conceded.
     
    #39
  40. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    LOL, you just can't accept that Federer is still 5 places higher than Nadal, if we consider all pre-Open Era greats as well.
     
    #40
  41. chandu612

    chandu612 Guest

    lol..excellent point raised by Granddog. You mention an observation of Former pro player fans of "decades" regd Nadal but continue to ignore their ranking of Federer. Then what is the whole point of your point :p
     
    #41
  42. chandu612

    chandu612 Guest

    lol...and Federer is 5 places above Nadal because ??? Oh right..the fans of "decades" decided so????rofl
     
    #42
  43. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    My point was proving him wrong when he arrogantly stated that "nobody" other than me ranked Nadal as low as No 6. That was all.

    Point is, guys in that forum rank both Federer and Nadal too low. They put Federer at 4th/5th when he should be GOAT, and Nadal at 8th when he should be 6th.

    They are too biased towards old players. I am more balanced and objective in my views.
     
    #43
  44. granddog29

    granddog29 Banned

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    I dont accept it since it is bogus. It is only YOUR own fantasy World, nothing else. Like I said quote me one poster (who isnt a known twat) or one credible expert who has Federer at #1 all time and Nadal at #6. If you cant do that then your absurd claim has been exposed as the malarky it is.

    Federer (wherever he ranks) is no more than 2 places max above Nadal all time at this point. Some credible people whose opinions carry 1000 times more weight than yours like McEnroe, Courier, Navratilova, even consider Nadal better than Federer at this point (not that I am neccessarily agreeing yet, but worth pointing out). Federer as GOAT and Nadal out of the top 5 is only your own wet dream, and will never be anymore than that. Deal with it.
     
    #44
  45. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    Great post!
     
    #45
  46. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    I thought the same thing.
     
    #46
  47. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

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    TTC starts out by pitting the men against the women. At the same time they slight the women in doing this.

    Why are Federer's majors more than Graf's who has two career slams?

    Whoever thought up this list has got some marbles loose to devalue women to this extent.

    So no matter how many majors a woman has, she will never be better than a man?

    Sickening.
     
    #47
  48. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    If we just add up the numbers (and don't consider anything else), then what's the point, ever, of discussing and debating GOAT rankings?
     
    #48
  49. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Comparing men's tennis and women's tennis is like comparing apples and oranges. The listings should be seperate.
     
    #49
  50. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Hall of Fame

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    It's not a "fantasy world". It's perfectly justifiable to have Federer as GOAT (although I know you will disagree), then Laver. It's also justifiable (again I know you will disagree, but you must concede it's at least a possibility) to have Sampras ahead of Nadal.

    That would put him at No 4.

    Then if you consider the greatest of pre-Open Era champs (i.e. Gonzales and Rosewall; I discount Tilden because he played in a very weak era), it's disrespectful to have them outside the all-time top 5.

    So, yes, Nadal can be ranked at No 6 at this stage. He will likely move up, but he's not quite top 5 yet, if we want to be fair to the greats of all eras.

    PS. It may sound arrogant, but I do think my rankings are better than a lot of experts'.
     
    #50

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