Tennis Elbow

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Milan, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Milan

    Milan Rookie

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    How can we fix this?

    Playing at 50-52 lbs with various Polyesters... Not playing even more than 3 days per week. What can I do besides ice?
     
    #1
  2. tmc5005

    tmc5005 Rookie

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    What racquet do you use?
    Have you tried any of these ar-friendly racquets or any other racquet that is flexibile, head light balanced and on the heavy side?

    Babolat New Pure Storm LTD GT
    Dunlop Biomimetic 200 Tour
    Dunlop Biomimetic 200
    HEAD-Youtek-IG-Prestige-MP
    Prince EXO3 Rebel
    Prince EXO3 Tour
    Volkl Power Bridge 10 Mid
    Volkl Organix 10 325G
    Wilson Prostaff Six.One BLX
    Yonex Vcore 95D
     
    #2
  3. slowfox

    slowfox Professional

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    Ditch the poly, perhaps..
     
    #3
  4. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    stretch that arm all the time. stop sign up with hand for 10 sec then down for 10 sec. 10x. search for te stretches on google. do this any free time you have. ice after play like you state. forgiving racquet as per tmc. if none of that works ditch the poly. done.

    all the above assumes you are playing with poly for a reason.
     
    #4
  5. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Stop kidding yourself - get rid of the poly.

    I've seen the difference it's made among both older and younger players with rather strong games and "arm-friendly" racquets. If you've had any previous elbow issues, then it's probably wise to assume that you're simply more susceptible to arm problems than some of our pals who do fine with that string.

    If the cost of re-stringing more often gives you pause, I'd say that your #1 priority should be keeping healthy so that you can keep playing the game (dump the poly). Consider getting a simple stringing machine and you'll never have to worry about the either expense or inconvenience of using more fragile string again.
     
    #5
  6. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    There are many TE threads with lots of information. Search especially the CharlieFedererer replies that include healing times and tendon illustrations.

    On the down side of this serious injury is the risk of developing chronic tendinosis by stressing the injured tendon when it is healing. The first few weeks immediately after an acute injury may be the most critical for the quality of healing. Unfortunately, almost everybody plays tennis with TE longer than a few weeks before realizing that they have a persisting TE injury. Research the difference between tendinitis (with inflammation) and tendinosis (with defective healed tendon).

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442912
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
    #6
  7. Milan

    Milan Rookie

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    Thanks all.

    I'm a former Professional/now Coach. Still play at a rather high level with top juniors and like Poly. I'll just keep dropping tension. Also I use the Dunlop Biomimetic 300, as I'm in contract with them.

    Icy Hot, Ice, and stretching..I'll see what happens.
     
    #7
  8. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Look up trigger point therapy as well. You may have knots in the shoulder you can massage out that will provide relief in a few days.
     
    #8
  9. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    You can drop the tension all you want, you can't expect something with no give to be comfortable on your elbow.
     
    #9
  10. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    What is more important to you -- your elbow or poly strings? Lose the poly. If you are going to be stubborn about it, drop it down to the 40 lb range. If you are are using full poly, consider a hybrid setup with poly on on the mains (or crosses).

    Are you certain that your TE is not GE or some other elbow issue?
     
    #10
  11. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    Lose the poly.

    Many come back hitting too hard to soon.

    Many have posted here that using the Thereband Flexbar to help build up their forearm muscles helps prevents an early recurrence.
    Tennis Elbow: Step-By-Step Instructions For Treating Elbow Pain Using Thereband Flexbar.
    Thera-Band Flexbar Hand Exerciser - Tennis Elbow Relief Bar http://www.amazon.com/TheraBand-Y0A2THBFLXRL-Thera-band®-FlexBar®-Red/dp/B00067E4YU

    After the pain is gone, make your first hitting sessions short and gradually lengthen them.

    Players who continue to play with pain can see their tendons suffer permanent changes into just strands of scar tissue - a process known as tendonosis:

    [​IMG]
     
    #11
  12. Milan

    Milan Rookie

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    Thanks! Which do you recommend? The red? And where are the instructions on how to use?
     
    #12
  13. GrandSlam45

    GrandSlam45 Rookie

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    Start with the red bar if you're currently in pain, and then work your way up to the green, then blue. Instructions come with your orders and videos are available online.

    Also, definitely lose the poly strings! Even at low tensions, polys will cause problems once they go dead.
     
    #13
  14. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    I'm not the OP.

    Poly strings work fine for me. I tried synth gut and hate its mute and misaligning and nondurability. I don't have TE but if I intend to hit really hard and sloppy for hours I'll feel some ache and discomfort.

    Anyone got the same experience?

    ps. I just bought 25 sets of poly. You guys kinda make me doubt poly now. :shock:
     
    #14
  15. rolliges

    rolliges New User

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    Stop playing.
    Cut out the poly.
    Forget ice and NSAIDS.
    NO cortisone shots.
    There is NO inflammation process.
    Red then green flexbar therapy religiously.
    After a few months...if better
    String with gut.
    No shortcuts!
     
    #15
  16. JZImmer123

    JZImmer123 Rookie

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    I was using Poly for about 4-5 years before suddenly getting Tennis Elbow. It really sucked! It hurt to lift a gallon of milk and to even shake someone's hand! I had to wait almost 4 months before I could play again. So when I started playing again I decided to try a hybrid set-up and a tennis elbow brace for preventive maintenance and so far so good for the last 7 months. I also do that stretching people talked about here.
     
    #16
  17. GrandSlam45

    GrandSlam45 Rookie

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    For those not convinced that poly strings cause TE... the problem occurs when the strings go dead, which is usually after about 2 weeks. When the strings are fresh they feel great and are probably still safe (at low tensions), but since they don't move around or show wear, people usually don't change them for months.

    The reason the pros can use them without problems is because their racquets are strung fresh after every match and every practice. They never play with dead strings!

    So unless you plan to string your racquets OFTEN, forget poly or you're asking for trouble.
     
    #17
  18. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    GrandSlam45 gave you the answer on the red being the best to start.

    There are various videos on how to do the exercise, but this is definitely a good one:
    Tennis Elbow: Step-By-Step Instructions For Treating Elbow Pain Using A Flexbar (Tyler Twist) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2QQaVfeI4U

    The twisting action of the Flexbars are meant to take advantage of the fact that all the muscles of the forearm, that run from the elbow and across the wrist and into the hand, run in a diagonal.

    [​IMG]

    It makes sense then, that twisting the flexbar, and twisting these muscles, leads to a "better" strengthening exercise.

    [​IMG]


    While there are other ways of getting supination and pronation of the forearm by using a dumbbell (or even a hammer), the best study seemed to indicate good results from using the Flexbars.

    [​IMG]



    The idea in rehab is to start with a fairly gentle motion to keep the muscles moving while new protein is being made to repair the microscopic tendon/muscle tears involved in "tennis elbow".

    [​IMG]

    So the red Flexbar is designed to "gently" exercise the muscles, but not disrupt the healing that has already taken place.


    If you can do the "Tyler Twist" with the red for a few weeks, it is time to move up to the green Flexbar.
    By then, the areas healing should be strong enough to tolerate the added stress of the stiffer green bar.


    Any return of pain means the healing tissues are being pulled apart, and time must be given for more healing to occur.




    It sounds like you are a very good player.

    As such, you are a victim of your own success.

    Even though you are undoubtedly fairly strong from all your ball bashing, that also means your forearms are taking a lot of abuse from being the last muscles along the kinetic chain to absorb the impact from striking the ball.
    Stronger muscles, which are more elastic than non-elastic tendons and ligaments, should help prevent a recurrence of tennis elbow.


    Returning to tennis is less likely to result in an early recurrence by returning with soft (multifilament or gut) strings, and a fairly flexible frame.


    Some find that they eventually can try a hybrid - this is probably a better bet than trying to get back to a full poly set up.


    Good luck!
     
    #18
  19. GrandSlam45

    GrandSlam45 Rookie

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    charliefedererer - great post. You summed it up perfectly. I have to say that I've definitely noticed improvements from using the flex bars.
     
    #19
  20. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    44LBS if you're going to play with poly. Trust me, you may think that's low, but it's not and it won't impact your game a lot. What it will do is solve your arm issues if you're sore now after playing with the higher tensions. You've tried everything else, what's the worse that could happen if the lower tensions? Just do you healing exercises and lower that tension to 44LBS.
     
    #20
  21. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I just got done using a gut/poly hybrid at 50/45 pounds. At times, it felt too stiff. I can't believe I was just 1 pound above the optimal comfort tension.
     
    #21
  22. yonexRx32

    yonexRx32 Rookie

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    If none of the advice given here works..

    .. which it probably won't... amputation should take care of it.

    More seriously... take six months off..
     
    #22
  23. CaptinStiff

    CaptinStiff New User

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    You've got to get some deep tissue work done on this to get it under control. Visit this guys website and checkout his videos. Yeah I know it sucks you need to pay for most of it, but it's way cheaper than seeing any doctor and getting professional treatments.
    http://tenniselbowclassroom.com/
     
    #23
  24. tommynguyen101

    tommynguyen101 New User

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    I had tennis elbow with many polys and then I switched to Technifibre X-one Biphase. It helped me, it might help you.
     
    #24
  25. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Technifibre X-one Biphase is still on the firmer side for a multifilament string but way softer than full poly.
     
    #25
  26. Relinquis

    Relinquis Hall of Fame

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    rest, don't use poly and maybe get a less stiff stick.
     
    #26
  27. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    Said it once and I'll say it again. You need to rehab it by doing super slow bicep and tricep exercises to gorge the area with fresh blood so it can properly heal. Also use DMSO, peppermint oil, glucosamine lotion on your elbows and never stretch an unwarmed up muscle
     
    #27
  28. Tonyr1967

    Tonyr1967 Rookie

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    I've had a history of TE but love poly. I played poly in the mid -low 40's and even as low as mid 30's but still couldn't shake the TE. I was forced to play full gut for a while and eventually worked my way back to gut hybrids (with some minor discomfort).

    I then discovered the Wilson shockshield grips. I strung a full bed of poly at 45lb and with old school leather power pads (and the new grip) in my Pro Tour - no problems at all. Carried on this way for a while until I swtiched to the dark side APD 2013 - but kept the same setup.

    Even with a much. much stiffer frame - no elbow issues!!

    I still do my wrist exercises to strengthen, stretch my elbow tendons but if I'm honest - I think it is down to the grip.

    Worth a shot?
     
    #28
  29. jeonej

    jeonej New User

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    Is this website helpful?

    Hi,

    I've been struggling with tennis elbow for a while.
    I've done all things what I could do for my tennis elbow (cortisone shots, flexbars, etc)
    Right now, I am taking active release technique (ART) from physical therapist. Hopefully, ART is working.

    I'm always wondering tenniselbowclassroom.com is worth to try it.
    Did you register this website?
    Is it worth to try?
     
    #29
  30. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    I have a young student who said he has a little pain at the very tip of his elbow (underneath) at the start of a session but it goes away as he warms up

    anyone know if this is a TE thing, or something else? or a bit of a nothing, really?

    he has commented on it the last two lessons, and each time it has completely vanished as he warmed up. There is no residual pain later in the day or the next day, so I don't think it's TE, but I would welcome input

    thanks
     
    #30
  31. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Sounds like just a bit of golfer's elbow. Related more to hitting forehands late, while tennis elbow tends to be from backhands. He shouldn't be having it and it will gradually get worse unless something is done to make it better. Make sure he has gotten it warm and has done some good stretches for it before he plays. If the stretches don't change things, then layoff a little bit and look at the things in this thread.
     
    #31
  32. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Golfer's Elbow and Tennis Elbow relate to torn tendon injuries. With that type of injury the elbow should not be stressed while it is trying to heal. Have the student see a Dr for a diagnosis.
     
    #32
  33. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    Everyone should do this.
    All of it.
     
    #33
  34. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    thanks, yes, that's what I thought too.

    cheers
     
    #34
  35. dannysul

    dannysul Rookie

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    It's funny no matter how many people say it, the poly users refuse to believe that it is contributing or most likely the cause of their TE. At the very first sign of TE, if you don't RICE and drop the poly, you are asking for problems that could end up with you under the knife. I am speaking from first hand experience, it is very depressing to wind up in the operating room. And under no circumstances ever take more then one shot (if any) of cortisone.
     
    #35
  36. RogueFLIP

    RogueFLIP Semi-Pro

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    I've been playing with my current setup for 3+ years; while I don't doubt that poly can contribute to elbow/arm issues, there can be many other factors.

    I had what can be labeled as tennis elbow a few years ago, but mine was brought on by a mishit that caused my wrist to get bent in a weird fashion that spasmed my extensor belly. Classic signs of TE followed. Wrist and elbow were pretty miserable, couldn't pour a glass of water, etc. Probably didn't rest as much as I should have, but working out the spasms and stretching cleared up my issues in two or so weeks. No Flexbar, strengthening exercises or what have you. Never had a problem since. I continue to stretch and work on eliminating soft tissue restrictions.

    Also had a bout of GE that I couldn't seem to shake treating symptomatically. No so much pain, but numbness in the hand/elbow from the medial aspect. That one was technique related....was holding grip too tightly, many restrictions in my flexor muscle belly. But the key was releasing my tight pectoral muscle. Upon seeing video tape, I wasn't giving myself enough space on my FH, causing my shld to jam into itself. Once I started to stretch out my pectoral in various angles, instant relief to the numbness that had been plaguing me for also about two weeks. No rest, and not a single strengthening exercise. Not the smartest course, but when you're an addict...lol...

    No problems ever since.

    Just my point that while I don't doubt that poly and its associated stiffness can irritate SOME people, it doesn't have to irritate everyone, and that may not be the only contributing factor to pain/issues.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
    #36
  37. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    My GE hurt right where the injury is located at the elbow.

    I have never had a pinched nerve but some of your symptoms, for example, the "numbness" sounds as if there might have been a pinched nerve. There are maps that relate the location of pain or numbness and the possible locations of pinched nerves, back, neck, shoulder, elbow, etc

    Recent thread discussing pinched nerves:
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/show...ghlight=chas+tennis+pinched+nerve#post7241420
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
    #37
  38. RogueFLIP

    RogueFLIP Semi-Pro

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    ^^ for sure, something was compressed. But I didn't associated the compression to the poly strings....just poor technique.
     
    #38
  39. Atom

    Atom New User

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    Anyone have an opinion about this string as it relates to TE.
    https://www.klipperusa.com/products/gripstringdetail.php?catnum=S286

    The reason I'm asking is that lately I've starting feeling some elbow soreness and I've been using this product strung at 60#. I have any entire roll of it so I don't want to keep using it if it's going to aggravate my elbow. I haven't had elbow soreness for a long time and in the past when I did, I generally attribute it to the racquet. Prior to using this string I was primarily using NXT and Sensation.

    At the same time I've been doing things in my play which may be a factor; playing more singles, and hitting harder with more top. Begin 65 doesn't help either.

    In the meantime, I'm going to do some exercises and tone down my play. I thought I'd ask about the string just in case.
     
    #39
  40. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Maybe try dropping the tension 5 pounds. It may not make all that much difference in terms of feel but the comfort will be better.

    For me, I think the Theraband flexbar combined with a hand gripper solved the year long riddle for me. I do 3 sets of 15 per day of each spaced at different times during the day. I keep both in my car and do them at stop lights even though I no longer have any pain in my arm. Don't want it coming back!
     
    #40
  41. leksukon

    leksukon New User

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    I recently felt tennis elbow starting to come on, only a mild case of it- i wanted to end it before it ended my tennis playing, i used this thread and youtube to research the problem.. then i watched this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAy8q7yJAHM

    at 1.35 - ..sports which require twisting and extension of the wrist against resistence..

    for me , i had this unconventional overhead bottom spin shot that I liked to do and it was twisty .. and also sometimes on the serve i noticed a twist..now that i keep that type of motion to a minimum, i played everyday this week w/o any more elbow issues..

    also the question has to be asked why some people like the pro's can train 7 hours a day and not get te and i started getting it from only 4 hours a week.. i think if you have it you should analyse your shot techniques..

    things like vibrating racket strings and anti-vibration bubbles will reduce the irritation but will not prevent the tendons from tearing in the first place..

    that's 2cts from an newbie :)
     
    #41
  42. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Your video is very informative but not from a tennis specialist that might be knowledgeable in tennis strokes.

    I have searched for information relating stroke technique to tennis elbow. I have not found very much research.

    The information that I found most credible is for the one hand backhand -

    http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/UST..._The One Handed Backhand and Tennis Elbow.pdf

    The important point relates to the wrist angle at impact. Pro one hand backhands use the wrist in extension. Amateur players who more often get TE elbow use the wrist in flexion. It also make sense - but does not prove cause - that if you place your wrist in extension the tendons injured in tennis elbow are not near the end of their range of motion. As the wrist is placed in flexion the tendon injured in TE is going toward the end of its range of motion.

    A much more complete discussion of this cause of tennis elbow is available in Knudson's book, Biomechanical Principles of Tennis Technique. Its an excellent book, now very low priced used, with some interesting insights on this and many other aspects of strokes.

    See also

     
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
    #42
  43. leksukon

    leksukon New User

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    tx.good reads, i initially thought that my elbow was from the one handed backhand, the first thing i did was switch to the 2 handed backhand-and i'm sticking to it; it was awkward at first but after practicing with it; i'm very pleased with the 2 handed version and shoulda switched to it sooner.. I always thought 2 handed would just be too hard for me because i wouldn't have enough coordination in the left arm but i'm already starting to let the left arm take over and very excited to see what it's gonna do for my game once it's improved.
     
    #43
  44. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    First step ....Throw that poly in the garbage can.

    Then its a waiting game. Mine got so bad it took a year to fully heal. Now I just use 15g nylon. I have not had elbow issues in years and I put in a lot of time on court.
     
    #44
  45. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I also switched to a 2 hander about a year ago and it definitely helps.
     
    #45
  46. GrandSlam45

    GrandSlam45 Rookie

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    I've been playing with a 2 handed BH my entire life and still suffer from severe tennis elbow. Unfortunately in tennis, there's a million other things you can do wrong that will cause TE. In my case, it's hitting forehands too close to the body, and over extension of my arm while serving.

    Every time I think I have it figured out, I injure myself in the heat of battle.
     
    #46
  47. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    My TE can get bad when I'm stretched out on my forehand and I go for a Rafa style spin swing over my head. I tend to squeeze the handle very tight when I try this shot and that is where it gets me. Need to just start slicing those balls.
     
    #47
  48. jonahnaturals

    jonahnaturals Rookie

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    I find the following simple "active release technique" - type massage and stretches to be really helpful in preventing and treating tennis and golfer's elbow:

    http://drbenkim.com/how-reduce-risk-elbow-and-wrist-injuries

    Good luck!
     
    #48
  49. kid-tennis-1980

    kid-tennis-1980 New User

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    Why don't you try contrast bath immersion therapy for your elbow pain.

    Here is how you do it:

    It involves setting up a tub or bucket of ice cold water(yes add ice to the water!) and another with hot water(not boiling water!). Start out by immersing your injured elbow in the hot water for 1 minute, then immediately switch to the cold water for 1 minute. Then go back to the hot water for 2 minutes, cold water for 2 minutes. Finally do 3 minutes in the hot water and finish up with 3 minutes in the cold water.

    There can be significant costs associated with Physical therapy and Doctor visits, especially if you don't have extended medicare.

    Alternatively, you could check out the website http://www.Tenniselbowtreatmenttips.com. There is information on there about treatment options, exercises, symptoms, etc. Better to get as much information as you can about tennis elbow before shelling out money on things that may not work.

    Good luck
    Carl
     
    #49
  50. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    Do some research on poly. Figure out WHY it seems to be making your ball spin more. The answers are interesting and sad in the case of injury.
     
    #50

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