Tennis Recruiting Appearance on Parenting Aces Show

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by dallasoliver, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    That's cool. Go for that sophomore TRN ranking and let us know how it goes with the Ivy coaches when you discuss it with them.
     
    #51
  2. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    The point I tried to make was that parents hold back smart kids 1 years so the ranking goes up. Then parents try to get kids to take lots of APs in high school for college admission. Are you doing your kids favor??

    How about support your kids in school. Support your kids in tennis. Save for their college education. See where it will lead to instead of focus on scholarship and hold your smart child a year or two behind.
     
    #52
  3. Chemist

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    You are absolutely right about this. Without his tennis, even with over 4 GPA, top 10 class, 5 in AP tests, high ACT and SAT scores, he will probably be wait-listed in an Ivy. Having read the NYT article and other writings about Academy Index, I am actually feeling good about his chances, if he does well in ACT next week, SAT in March, and SAT Chem in May (he already got 800 in Math II). I also hope he wins a match or two in Waco later this month, get in and win a couple of matches in Mobile next month.
     
    #53
  4. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Totally agree.
     
    #54
  5. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    I didn't say he would probably be wait-listed.

    With all these academic credentials do you think he is smart enough to take full ownership of his college recruitment? It seems you are heavily involved for the parent of a Junior year student. The six months in Junior ITF, the sophomore TRN ranking, the thing about listing a bunch of schools on TRN, all the academic stats you list on a public message board.....why not trust him to make the calls on these things
     
    #55
  6. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Agreed......
     
    #56
  7. Chemist

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    Agree!

    Mr. Bill, I would just forget about the "virtual ranking" as an excuse for not being a 5 star! We should not feel sorry for going to school a little early, taking heavy school load, playing up early and losing to bigger and better kids..... Should not use these as excuses... He just needs to continue to work hard on and off tennis court, improve his games and get his grades and scores....:)
     
    #57
  8. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    I think you had mentioned you are from Chinese background ( definitely not racial purpose intended). I read it somewhere (could be you who posted it) that Ivy schools have higher standard criteria for admission of Asian than other ethnic groups. It seemed you and your son already prepared hard for the process.

    I would like to point out (you prob already know) Ivy scholarship is need based only. Make sure you are prepared to pay.
     
    #58
  9. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    So if he is Chinese he must be rich?

    I love this Board!!
     
    #59
  10. Chemist

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    I agree with you... He is writing emails and initiating conversation with coaches at the nationals. But I cannot just leave it to him completely, I still need to remind him about writing a few more emails... spending more time in preparing for ACT and SAT... watching a few more Pros in slow motion on Youtubes... instead of snapchatting with girls...
     
    #60
  11. Chemist

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    More rich Americans, Germans, Japaneses... than Chineses.... I wish I were rich and retire early like GA. But we will be ok, just need to continue to work until boys finish college.
     
    #61
  12. Chemist

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    Thanks... Will need to continue to work... No expensive vacation and no expensive jewelries... Drive a car to over 200,000 miles... The math is actually simple - with Penn state credits in the bank and "saving" from current $30,000 tennis spend, we will be able to cover his college costs.
     
    #62
  13. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Sounds great! You are prepared.
    On the bright side,your grandchild will be a legacy. A little easier for the next generation with Ivy dream....
     
    #63
  14. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    .................................
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
    #64
  15. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Youngsters out there, don't let adults tell you the Ivies are too expensive for you! They have some of the most generous need-based aid packages available.

    The best way to get an idea of what would be available is to complete the financial aid calculator that can be found on all (most?) Ivy websites.

    Until you do that, here is a snippet from an NYT article a few years back. According to my experience, it is generally accurate.

    At most Ivy League institutions, families earning less than about $65,000 annually are now asked to make no contribution to their children’s education. Families making $65,000 to $180,000 might be expected to pay 10 percent to 18 percent of their annual income on a sliding scale. Ten years ago, such families would have been expected to pay almost twice as much, and their child would probably have accumulated a debt of about $25,000 after four years.

    The current guidelines vary from institution to institution and can be affected by multiple factors, but each Ivy League member has significantly increased aid packages and has shown noteworthy largess. And in another unprecedented move, a vast majority will match the aid package offered by another Ivy League member. That makes the financial aid awards in the Ivy League generally the most generous of any group of colleges or universities in the United States.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/sports/financial-aid-changes-game-as-sports-teams-in-ivies-rise.html?pagewanted=all
     
    #65
  16. Chemist

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    That would be wonderful! And I will ask other grandparents on this board how to help their children train their child (our grandchild)... NO I don't think I will do that, but I won't mind help taking a grandchild for a non-official campus visit...:)
     
    #66
  17. fleabitten

    fleabitten Semi-Pro

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    I don't think so. They are all going to be freshman at the same time, so the actual age is irrelevant. BTW, there is a really interesting read in the book Outliers about the importance of being older in your grade and how that equates to sports success. Amazing data there.
     
    #67
  18. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    Fuel on the fire.
     
    #68
  19. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    I have an interest in these academic issues. Referring to the bolded sentence above, I wonder if your boy's school publishes students' birthdates.....or maybe you looked up classmates' birthdates on your own?

    And let's say your boy was born during the 4th quarter of his birth year. Is it typical at his school that kids born in the first quarter have more APs than those born in the second quarter, etc?

    I had never considered these issues before
     
    #69
  20. Chemist

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    I feel that I am getting into a trap... So, I will take the "5th":)

    You and many posters in this board made me realize that I have been using heavy academic load as excuses for my son's tennis; and using 3-4 hr a day tennis training and commuting as excuses for not having straight A. This was the choice my son made and he has to work his butt off to make it work. But what I really wanted to do here is to show other parents and their children that kids can do really well in both tennis and school, being younger or older. However, they have to be prepared that they would need to work a lot harder and smarter than their friends. After all, most of our kids won't become professional tennis players. It's the academic achievements, leadership, self-confidence, self-esteem, disciplines, work ethic, independence, good communication skills, meeting commitment, keeping promise, respecting self and others, ... that would make a difference in their career. All we can hope is that this great game of tennis will help our kids build these characters and attributes that would make their life happier and more successful!
     
    #70
  21. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    No trap. But if that is what you think, ok.

    Maybe SAT, ACT, AP should be weighted depending on the age of the test taker. I dunno, I'll have to think about that some more.
     
    #71
  22. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Not much to think about. All rich school districts figured this one out many years ago and are working very hard to persuade kids with August and later birthdays to wait another year before enrolling. They know that older kids have better grades and test results.
     
    #72
  23. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Hi Klu,

    While the majority of the states have a cutoff of October 1st,
    a few states up North still have a Jan 1st or Dec 31st cutoff.
    The problem is that if you move the cutoff date from January 1st to October 1st,
    surprisingly, you actually hurt the poor more with an earlier cutoff to kindergarten.
    Their parents can not afford a year of preschool to fill in their "gap year" and potentially these kids could have another year where they are not stimulated in an academic setting and are not learning in their home environment.
    I ran a volunteer book program through a hospital where we would supply books that kids could take home after every doctor's appt and sadly, for some of these kids, these books were their only books at home and many times they had no one to read to them.
    So, a lot of these age cut off issues are a slippery slope, and while they satisfy some of the population, they hurt others.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
    #73
  24. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    This is an eye-opener for me. Not a challenge, just a sincere question, can you provide a cite or link to any stats about the correlation between grades/test scores and age difference calibrated in months? This is very interesting
     
    #74
  25. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I think cutoff is all over the map and not always state mandated. In our state it seems October 1st is prevalent but some municipalities have it as Sept 15 or Oct 15 or Dec 31st. I did a quick google search and found these examples:
    Sept 15 cutoff
    https://sites.google.com/a/student....schools/home/enrollment/2013-2014-kindergarten
    August 1 cutoff
    http://www.ridgewood.k12.oh.us/protected/ArticleView.aspx?iid=4AU3Y&dasi=33PB
    Was Dec 31 now July 31st
    http://doe.k12.hi.us/kindergarten/index.htm
    August 31st
    http://www.delconewsnetwork.com/art...are_county/news/doc51100f8d472ca289825638.txt

    I was really talking about anecdotal evidence about schools that were trying to persuade parents with kids with fall birthdays to wait another year before enrolling.
     
    #75
  26. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    For now, until I can see more information, I'm not buying this.

    There are estimates that about 55% of students who take the SAT a second time do slightly better, and that this is attributable to better test taking skills and fewer nerves. If kids are really smarter than they were a few months ago, this figure should be in the 90% range. And SAT scores should be higher than PSAT scores across the board.

    Does anyone have good information about this?
     
    #76
  27. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Misterbill,
    Older kids do better - this is in context of the whole 13 years. 6-month average difference is important in elementary school and becomes less important in high school. But even in HS older kids are potentially more mature (on average) and better understand the need to study and stakes involved. I can see differences in behavior of my teenager every 6 months.
     
    #77
  28. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Intuitively, I would agree with you. But the SAT stats seem to throw a little spanner in the works. I am not sure a June baby has an advantage over an October baby...both born in the same year....in terms of grades or SAT. I think that was the original context and framework of discussion.

    Here's the data on SAT retakes. Older is smarter doesn't jump out of this data for me. Anyone got other stats?


    55 percent of juniors taking the test improved their scores as seniors.
    35 percent had score drops.
    10 percent had no change.
    The higher a student's scores as a junior, the more likely that student's subsequent scores will drop.
    The lower the initial scores, the more likely the scores will go up.
    On average, juniors repeating the SAT as seniors improved their combined critical reading, mathematics, and writing scores by approximately 40 points.
    About 1 in 25 gained 100 or more points on critical reading or mathematics, and about 1 in 90 lost 100 or more points.



    And here are the hard numbers:

    http://media.collegeboard.com/digitalServices/pdf/research/SAT-Percent-Student-Senior-Year-Score-Gain-Loss-2012.pdf
     
    #78
  29. Chemist

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    Klu, One question for you. If a state has the cutoff date of 1/1, should the most of the kids born in the month of September to December be over 6 yr old when starting kindergarten? One wonders how many 4 yr old kids are allowed in the kindergarten.
     
    #79
  30. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I think we successfully hijacked the thread about TR.NET where everyone had a chance to ask Dallas some questions. To put it back on track I would like to ask Dallas the difference between Tennisinformation and Tennisrecruiting ranking algorithms. I see cases where Girl A ranked above Girl B in G18 Tennisinformation but A is below B in Tennisrecruiting ranking (both same grade).
     
    #80
  31. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Only could partially agree with this statement. The statement is true for average kids. For gifted or kids with higher intelligence, keep them in average classes can lead to boredom and troubles. Smart kids need to learn at their paces or allowed to take more advance, in depth or faster pace classes.

    Intelligence Quotient (IQ) is a ratio between Mental age and Chronological age X 100. For 2 children with the same mental age (ability), the younger one has higher IQ than the other.

    Many kids (and tennis kids) are gifted. Many are identified early and take gifted classes. In some school districts, they are allowed to skip a grade or even two. If you have gifted, very smart tennis players, why would you hold them back a grade? The kids will get bored and not challenged.

    I have a neighbor who skipped a grade and went to Harvard Med school. I myself also skipped a grade in high school, went to med school and was one of the youngest ones. Still was at the top of my class. Many of us younger students had to help tutoring many older classmates. Neither the Harvard grad neighbor or myself were college athletes. However, I don't believe anyone will do their smart children any favor holding them back for sport success. Average kids might be OK since they might not get bored in not so challenging environment.`
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
    #81
  32. NoCalParent

    NoCalParent New User

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    Coming from a state with a late kindergarten eligibility date (12/2), I found this study done at the University of Illinois interesting. "Kindergarten Entrance Age and Children’s Achievement: Impacts of State Policies, Family, Background, and Peers" provides summary findings from two longitudinal studies over 15 years. It says,

    "First, our baseline models indicate that being a year older at the beginning of kindergarten leads to a 0.53 standard deviation increase in reading test scores and a 0.83 standard deviation increase in math scores during the fall of kindergarten, a point in time so early in the academic year that very little learning has taken place in school. The entrance age effects tend to diminish as children progress through school but are sizable even in eighth grade. Second, we present compelling evidence that entrance age effects are larger among children from high socioeconomic status families than among poorer children. This pattern is consistent with a relatively high rate of accumulation of
    human capital among high-income children in the years prior to kindergarten, and suggests that policies intended to raise average entrance ages will exacerbate socioeconomic differences in achievement in early grades. " http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=916533
     
    #82
  33. Chemist

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    It is an even better idea if a gifted tennis player happens to be a girl!:)

    http://tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=1599
     
    #83
  34. Chemist

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    This CNN report quoted a Harvard study that shows the advantage of redshirted kids disappears after the 3rd grade. Moreover, redshirted kids are more likely to have behavior problem in classroom.

    http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.c...rgarten-redshirting-different-for-each-child/

    However, redshirted kids do have an edge in sports, particularly those requiring physical contact, such as hockey, football or basketball. For tennis, the age advantage is not as large. In our section, only one redshirted boy is ranked top 10 in both B16 and B18.
     
    #84
  35. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Thank you very much for posting this study. Some other snippets:

    Our evidence is consistent with the notion that older children excel because they have accumulated more human capital prior to entering kindergarten than have younger children. The effects of entrance age are particularly pronounced for children of high-income parents, reflecting the greater level of investments that relatively wealthy parents tend to make in their children prior to kindergarten. We do not find support for the alternative hypotheses that the entrance age premium reflects differences in physical maturity or in the capacity to learn once in school.

    If the benefits of delayed enrollment result from human capital accumulation prior to kindergarten, policy debates regarding kindergarten entrance age must also ask what children will be doing if not in school. Our estimates imply that moving a state cutoff from December to September will raise average entrance ages and average achievement in early grades, but such a change will also exacerbate socioeconomic differences in achievement because the test scores of high-income children will tend to increase more than that of low-income children. If the goal of policy is to raise the achievement of the children most susceptible to falling behind, a policy focused solely on entrance ages is likely to fail since at-risk children receive the least investment prior to entering school.


     
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  36. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Another great reference! This is the best hijack ever!!!!!!
     
    #86
  37. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    The abstract of the article you cited is interesting. The results of the tests at the kindergarten level favors the older kids. It is different than my experience and observation at the medical school, residency and post doc fellowship levels. There have been a lot of younger, very bright, better test taker people I encountered along the way.
    I think "the older age has better test result" holds true for average general population but might not apply to smart subgroup of kids.
     
    #87
  38. Chemist

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    It's still tennis related.... But yes, let's table this debate:)
     
    #88
  39. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    We might need to go back to OP topic like klu suggested.
     
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