Tennis Recruiting Network

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by servelefty2233, Nov 29, 2006.

  1. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Thanks for catching me on the sloppy language in my previous post. We believe that one strength of the TennisRecruiting.net ranking system is that players can earn strong rankings without much travel. Let me make two different comments – one about the tournaments that count for TennisRecruiting.net rankings, and a second about rankings based on a head-to-head system.


    Tournaments Used for TennisRecruiting.net Rankings

    TennisRecruiting.net uses all tournaments that have a reasonable number of strong players in the draw. We do not care about the size or location of the tournament – we only insist on the draw being reasonably strong because of the “connectedness” argument I made in my previous post.

    We designed our system so that all junior players have the opportunity to play in nearby tournaments and earn a TennisRecruiting.net ranking. In addition to designated tournaments and tournaments on the national schedule, we also include a number of tournaments (closed state events, etc.) that accept all applicants. Players should be able to stay in-state and earn TennisRecruiting.net rankings – and in many cases very strong rankings.


    Head-to-Head Rankings vs. Points Rankings

    One of the things people like about the TennisRecruiting.net rankings is that players do not have to travel to earn strong rankings.

    TennisRecruiting.net uses a head-to-head ranking system, which means that a player’s rank goes up and down based on who they play – regardless of the tournament. If you beat a couple of players ranked ahead of you in a local tournament, those wins will count just as much as if you had beaten them in San Jose or Kalamazoo.

    Contrast this with a points-based system where tournaments are assigned different point values. Level 1 tournaments have the highest point values, followed by Level 2 tournaments, and so on. There are cases where a walkover at a Level 1 tournament can earn you more points than six wins over ranked opponents at a Level 5. If you don’t travel to the tournaments with the largest point values, you cannot earn the big points for a high ranking.

    At TennisRecruiting.net, the majority of ranked players have never traveled more than one state away. Players can look for nearby tournaments with historically strong fields – and those tournaments can earn significant rankings at TennisRecruiting.net. Indeed, doing well at a well-established tournament – like the Ojai in California or the Georgia Junior Open – can lift a player’s ranking considerably.


    I hope that helps. For reference, the TennisRecruiting.net FAQ specifies the criteria by which tournaments are included in the TennisRecruiting.net rankings:

    http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-J
     
    #51
  2. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    I'll try to look around and participate where I can. One of our other founders - Julie Wrege - is much more knowledgeable than I am. I'll try to bring her in when appropriate.
     
    #52
  3. EasternRocks

    EasternRocks Hall of Fame

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    i don't really trust the stats on tennisrecruiting, it sometimes gives u false data... but it can be good sometimes when college coaches look at it.
     
    #53
  4. redsoxrock930

    redsoxrock930 Semi-Pro

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    since this is my first year of tennis i am not rated but i have a perfect record against not rated player (4-0) and one win and four losses against one star players (most of which were very close) do you think i will be given a one star rating.
     
    #54
  5. redsoxrock930

    redsoxrock930 Semi-Pro

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    also when are they updated, have they already been updated.
     
    #55
  6. son_of_RD23

    son_of_RD23 New User

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    I'm not sure how it all works but I'm a 1 star and I defeated a 3 star in a state level tournament a couple of weeks ago but i didnt get any credit for it on the tennisrecruiting website.
     
    #56
  7. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Hi -

    I posted this earlier in the thread.

    - The ratings (Blue Chip, 5 Star, etc.) are produced once a year in late September and are based on play from the previous year ending August 31. For example, the ratings that come out this fall for 2007-08 will be based on tournament play from 1 Sep 2006 through 31 Aug 2007.

    - The ratings are calculated according to the College Recruiting List rankings. Period. They are a completely objective rating - there is no subjective component. However, we do not change ratings for the year after we award them - Michael McClune and Hilary Barte are still Blue Chips even though they quit playing junior events long ago and are no longer ranked.

    To answer your explicit questions: the new ratings are published the first week of October. If you had a ranking at the end of August, then you will receive a rating. At any point in time when you have enough wins and tournaments to get a ranking at TennisRecruiting.net, you will get a rating right away - you don't have to wait until next year.
     
    #57
  8. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Hi -

    Not sure exactly what to tell you here without more information. Did your ranking not increase? Do you have a ranking? Do you have a profile at TennisRecruiting.net?

    You can always email us at TennisRecruiting.net with questions about the rankings - or we can have a conversation here on the message board.
     
    #58
  9. son_of_RD23

    son_of_RD23 New User

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    No my ranking did not increase. Yes I have a ranking and profile. The tournament is not listed. There are many USTA tournaments that have not been listed on my Activity list. Maybe I have to be a paid subscriber?
     
    #59
  10. Jackie T. Stephens

    Jackie T. Stephens Professional

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    Why do I only have 1 star?????
     
    #60
  11. redsoxrock930

    redsoxrock930 Semi-Pro

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    not to criticize your rankings but justin anderson, patrick sims, sean simpson and sean handley are one star ******** and im not. I crush all of them. and christopher grant and logan are not rated players, they're much better than all of those guys also michael lowe is only a one star recruit? he has a winning record against three stars!
     
    #61
  12. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    Okay, I've got to know - who has ever described tennis at 'top levels' as inbred?
     
    #62
  13. JMS

    JMS Professional

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    .................
     
    #63
  14. Jackie T. Stephens

    Jackie T. Stephens Professional

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    Why are all of my losses there and not my wins??
     
    #64
  15. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    TennisRecruiting.net uses a number of USTA- and ITF-sanctioned tournaments in its rankings - but not all USTA tournaments. In particular, there are many local tournaments that we do not use. You can view the criteria for tournaments to be included here:

    http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-J

    It will be hard for me to help you without more specifics. Please send email to support@tennisrecruiting.net and our team will try to address your question.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2009
    #65
  16. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    All players who have a ranking have at least 1 Star. However, if you do not have a ranking due to lack of play in significant tournaments, then you will not have a ranking or stars:

    http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/faq.asp#Rankings-O

    Also, keep in mind that the current star ratings are from October 2006 and are based on play from 2005-06. I also expect that Michael Lowe will have additional stars when the new Top Prospect Ratings are released next week.
     
    #66
  17. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    See some of my previous posts... But in a nutshell, TennisRecruiting.net is a national-level ranking that does not include results from many local tournaments.

    If your wins are mostly at local tournaments... and if your losses are at larger state-level tournaments... then TennisRecruiting.net will probably include more losses than wins in its rankings.

    However, note that you can update your profile to list your wins in the "Tournament Highlights" section on your Player Bio page.
     
    #67
  18. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    You DEFINITELY do not have to be a paid subscriber. Players and parents do not have to pay anything to use our web services.

    We do have a pay membership - Recruiting Advantage - that gives you access to additional information and premium services. But the basic free account allows you to update all contact, academic, and tennis information (with the exception of video upload).
     
    #68
  19. redsoxrock930

    redsoxrock930 Semi-Pro

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    can stars be taken away?
     
    #69
  20. MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER

    MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER Semi-Pro

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    A bit off the topic, but it was asked- so-
    None other than Bud Collins frequently calls the top players in Juniors Tennis
    "inbred". He says " The poor American showings internationally are caused by runaway inbreeding" all the time.
    I think it started at the French Open awhile back when the Bryant brothers cut him out of a parking space, and he didn't realize they were not only doubles partners, but twins.
     
    #70
  21. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    The short answer is yes. TennisRecruiting.net calculates completely new ratings every fall, so the Star ratings for 2007-08 are independent of the 2006-07 ratings. Rating will based solely on the College Recruiting List ranking as of the first week of September - with corrected tournament data submitted to us during September.

    We actually just ran the ratings today and are putting them through our quality assurance tests to ensure accuracy. The first Monday in October is always a huge traffic day for us when we release the ratings.
     
    #71
  22. redsoxrock930

    redsoxrock930 Semi-Pro

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    also why doesn't it take into effect doubles performances. for instance i couldn't believe that daniel nguyen's ranking went down after he won the 16s nationals
     
    #72
  23. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    That is another good question. Doubles is especially important in college tennis where the doubles point is often the make-or-break point in spring duals. Having a doubles component in our rankings - or at least an additional ranking that also uses doubles - seems like a winner idea. We have long considered adding a doubles component, and we still have discussions about it today.

    Unfortunately, our ranking system uses a head-to-head ranking system - and it is not straightforward to count doubles in head-to-head rankings. Adding doubles is actually much easier in points-based systems - and so systems like the ITF have singles, doubles, and combined rankings.

    So counting doubles is not something we do today, but it has long been something on our list for future consideration.
     
    #73
  24. JLyon

    JLyon Hall of Fame

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    guys tennisrecruiting.net is nice but in the end Coaches want to look at a players ITF and USTA record more than some site that selectively chosse which tournaments to show. The site is good for PR pub but little else, go off ITF, WTA/ATP, and USTA rankings for a better understanding of ones ability.
     
    #74
  25. MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER

    MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER Semi-Pro

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    JLyon is pretty much on the mark about TENNISRECRUITING site-

    But taking it one step further-
    The reality is NO college MENS tennis coach, (who has to win to keep his job), is going to put your butts in even a 1/4th or 1/2 scholarship when he can pick up a couple foreign 25 year olds with pro experience who would cut off their arms to come to America.

    If you are not at the very top- (and you would know it if you were) you may or may not go to college- but it will not be to play tennis, and sure as heck
    no one is going to give you a scholarship.

    Thanks mostly to Title IX, if you are a freshmen right now, by the time you graduate it is more likely that there will be no Men's tennis for you to apply to play.

    Now there is a bunch of people out there who will try and tell you different
    but all you have to do is follow the money; Is it going to you from them, like in sponsorships, grants, or any opportunities to get better on them -OR-
    is it going from you to them as they sell you recruiting tools, lessons,camps,lectures, tapes, supplements,schools,equipment,books?
     
    #75
  26. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    JLyon -

    A couple of nitpicks with your argument...

    (1) All rankings are selective

    You seem to take a shot at TennisRecruiting.net because it is selective in the results it uses. However, all rankings - including the ones you mention - are selective about the tournaments they include. For example, the USTA has national, sectional, and district rankings - and they all count different tournaments. Frankly, that is the only thing that makes sense.

    The TennisRecruiting.net rankings are a national ranking - and TennisRecruiting.net actually includes *more* tournaments than the USTA national rankings.


    (2) Goals of the rankings

    The goal of the TennisRecruiting.net rankings is very different than those put out by the USTA, ITF, and TennisInformation.com. Those sites try to rank all players by ability based on age group. The #1 girl in the 18s should be better than, say, the #100 girl in the 18s.

    At TennisRecruiting.net, we are only trying to compare kids within the same graduation year. That is, we say nothing about how good the #1 senior is compared with the #1 junior. Those kids are not competing against each other for scholarships - so we do not compare them head-to-head. For that reason, TennisRecruiting.net would be a terrible list to try and seed a tournament.


    (3) PR pub

    There are many tools by coaches used in recruiting, and rankings are one of them. In particular, they give coaches a good starting place to make a list of potential targets to evaluate.

    The TennisRecruiting.net rankings are very popular among college coaches. More than 800 coaches have registered for accounts at TennisRecruiting.net, and many of them are on the site every week. But don't take my word for it - see for yourself... If you have a profile at TennisRecruiting.net, create a free account and link that account to your profile. You can see - for free - how many coaches have been looking at your profile page.

    Best,
    Dallas
     
    #76
  27. MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER

    MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER Semi-Pro

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    ANOTHER QUESTION -
    One post mentioned @270 DIV. 1 schools offering MENS TENNIS...

    Dallas Oliver- How come TENNISRECRUITING is showing a lot of Conferences BUT only @ 75 schools?
     
    #77
  28. MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER

    MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER Semi-Pro

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    ^ My mistake- All there, Thanks
     
    #78
  29. 10isRocs

    10isRocs Rookie

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    What contact info is a coach allowed to see to get in contact with a player, ie: e-mail, home address, phone, etc?
     
    #79
  30. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Coaches (and only coaches) have access to a special page for each player. That page contains any contact and academic information the player has entered in the system.

    Currently, that information consists of:
    • Birth date
    • Contact Information
      • Address
      • Phone numbers
      • Email
    • Contact information for coaches
    • Academic Information
      • Class rank
      • GPA
      • NCAA Clearinghouse ID
      • Standardized test scores (SAT, SAT II, ACT)
      • AP Exam Scores

    Players (or their parents) can update all of this information with a free account. Click on this link to find out how:

    http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/about/GettingStarted.asp

    All of this information is on the "Private Information" player update page.

    I hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions.

    Best,
    Dallas
     
    #80
  31. ClarkC

    ClarkC Hall of Fame

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    Dallas Oliver:

    Thanks for all the info. Your web site is a great service and source of information.

    A couple of questions:

    1) If I know that a certain player is class of 2016 but you have him listed as class of 2013 (older than his older brother!), do you care to hear from me, or do you need to hear from the player himself? I could provide a link that shows that he is still eligible for the 10 and under USTA rankings, which would prove that he is not class of 2013, but I can understand that you don't want to receive unproven claims.

    2) Likewise, if I know that a certain player's name is "Lewis" and you list him as "Louis," do you want to hear about it, or only want to hear from the player himself?

    Thanks, and keep up the good work.
     
    #81
  32. xtremerunnerars

    xtremerunnerars Hall of Fame

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    If you could rank by AP test scores, SATs, and GPA instead of tennis ability that'd be great.


    Being smart is a lot cheaper than being good at tennis...
     
    #82
  33. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    ClarkC -

    Thanks for the kind words and feedback.

    Data integrity is our most difficult challenge - both in terms of player information and match results. We spend more time, engineering effort, and money on data integrity than anything else. And while we do depend heavily on players and parents for information, we also update the information ourselves if it is documented somewhere.

    Regarding names and ages, please send us any information you can - and if you have documentation, then that helps a lot. We often approximate birthdates based on the tournaments a player plays, so if a kid plays up all the time it is difficult for us to tell. A link to a 10&U rank list can give us a bound on the birthdate - and we can always contact the player as well.

    Corrections to names are great as well. Same thing - if you can give us a website link as documentation, then we don't need to contact the player directly.

    Thanks much for the questions. We do strive to have high-quality data, but it's tough to stay ahead of the curve with junior tennis.

    Best regards, and good luck to your Wahoos against the Trojans this weekend. I wouldn't hold my breath, though.

    Dallas
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
    #83
  34. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    I know you meant this tongue-in-cheek, but consider this...

    College coaches have the ability to design their own custom rank lists. That is, they can get a rank list of boys who all have at least a 3.5 GPA... or girls who scored at least 1800 on the SAT... or kids who listed interest in a school on the West Coast.

    Coaches often use these custom rank lists to identify kids who fit a broad profile. If you update your information, then you will show up on these lists.

    Best,
    Dallas
     
    #84
  35. deddied

    deddied Rookie

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    OMG, yes!
    I live in north Florida, and there is a national tournament in delray beach. I(15 years old) would have to help pay over $500. My friend who is smart, went to a DI college for free.:shock:
     
    #85
  36. 10isRocs

    10isRocs Rookie

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    Schedule Strength?

    Does your schedule strength get factored into your overall ranking? It seems some guys are ranked high but their schedule strength is really low whereas those who just play Nationals with a harder schedule are ranked lower because they lose to really high ranked kids.
     
    #86
  37. ayyhwang

    ayyhwang Rookie

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    schedule strength is only a factor for your TennisRPI ranking, not your college recruiting list rank
     
    #87
  38. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Correct. SoS is a TennisRPI factor. The TennisRPI is a secondary ranking that we show at TennisRecruiting.net based on the well-known Ratings Power Index (RPI) algorithm. Those of you who follow college basketball know that the RPI is a factor for selecting teams into the NCAA tournament.

    You can read about the TennisRPI here:

    http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/about/RPI.asp

    Note also that we consider the TennisRPI to be a secondary ranking. We think the College Recruiting Lists are much more accurate, and we use that ranking when we refer to players' rankings in articles - and that is the ranking we use to determine our Top Prospects ratings.

    I hope this helps. Feel free to post more questions.

    Best,
    Dallas
     
    #88
  39. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Signing Week at TennisRecruiting.net

    Hi all -

    I just wanted to let everyone know that this week is "Signing Week" for college tennis... Wednesday is the start of the one-week signing period for NCAA Division I and Division II - when high school seniors can sign a National Letter of Intent to play for a college team in 2009.

    Although this does not apply to D3, NAIA, or junior/community colleges, our website uses this week as a focal point for recruiting profiles, raising the profile of college tennis, etc.

    We ran a "Countdown to Signing Day" series over the past month:

    http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=611#schedule

    and now we are in the middle of our "Signing Week" coverage:

    http://www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp?id=640#schedule

    All of us at TennisRecruiting.net have worked very hard to coordinate all of this fresh content, so I hope you have a chance to stop by and enjoy it.

    Best regards,
    Dallas
     
    #89
  40. deddied

    deddied Rookie

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    Heh Dallas, what does it take to get in the hot 100?
     
    #90
  41. 10isDad

    10isDad Hall of Fame

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    Can't you do your own research? The website has a FAQ:

    About the Prince Hot 100

    The Prince Hot 100 is a list of players who are currently playing excellent tennis and moving quickly up the rankings. These lists - one for boys and one for girls - are updated monthly and published in the third week of the month.

    Prince Sports, Inc., and TennisRecruiting.net award points to players for increasing their College Recruiting List ranking. Players with the highest point totals - and whose current ranking is higher than their ranking at any time over the previous 5 months - are placed on the monthly Prince Hot 100 List. Players must also have a winning player record in the month of consideration.

    List Characteristics

    Points are awarded as follows:

    Points Awarded For
    10 points Places improved in Top 50
    9 points Places improved in 51-100
    8 points Places improved in 101-150
    7 points Places improved in 151-200
    6 points Places improved in 201-250
    5 points Places improved in 251-300
    4 points Places improved in 301-350
    3 points Places improved in 351-400
    2 points Places improved in 401-450
    1 points Places improved over 450

    For example, a player who improves her ranking from 53 to 48 during a month will earn 47 points for the Prince Hot 100: 27 points (i.e., 9x3) for improving from 53 to 50, and an additional 20 points (i.e., 10x2) for moving from 50 to 48.
     
    #91
  42. region2champion

    region2champion Rookie

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    I've been in the HOT 100 about 6 months ago. I was like 70.
     
    #92
  43. eeytennis

    eeytennis Semi-Pro

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    However...

    Tennisrecruiting.net's ranking are not official and I have found them to be extremely inaccurate in some cases. It is a fun site to look at though.
     
    #93
  44. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    OK, I'll bite... We make every effort to provide strong NATIONAL rank lists. Note that we do not include many local or even smaller state tournaments. But we feel that our lists are very good at ranking people on a national scale with the tournaments that we include.

    Do you have specific examples? I field these often via email - and I have not yet found an instance where our rankings did not make sense.

    Best,
    Dallas
     
    #94
  45. eeytennis

    eeytennis Semi-Pro

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    I think that there is a pretty large discrepancy between the USTA rankings and the tennisrecruiting rankings. More so at the sectional level, but still there. I can think of one specific, and if you would like me to e-mail you it I could.

    I am not trying to stir up trouble and I really do enjoy looking at tennisrecruiting.net, but some of the rankings are definitely inaccurate, from what I see at least.
     
    #95
  46. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    No hard feelings. But I do take issue with your use of the term "inaccurate". I assume that by "inaccurate" you mean "different from the USTA rankings"? If that is what you mean, then you do not understand the point of our rankings. Our rankings are calculated completely different from the USTA - we are not trying to merely duplicate the USTA rankings.

    The primary difference is that TennisRecruiting.net uses a head-to-head ranking system, while the USTA uses a points-based system. Both systems have their pros and cons - but the two rankings will always differ dramatically. We feel that head-to-head systems are better predictors of which players would win if they match up head-to-head.
     
    #96
  47. Jdrizzle03

    Jdrizzle03 Rookie

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    dallas can i send u an email with an updated win/loss for me its missing a couple of matches and also do coaches look at facebook/myspace and if so should i make one just for tennis?
     
    #97
  48. dallasoliver

    dallasoliver Rookie

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    Send any corrections to info@tennisrecruiting.net. And I answered your other question on the other thread.

    Best,
    Dallas
     
    #98
  49. Jdrizzle03

    Jdrizzle03 Rookie

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    k and thanks a lot
     
    #99
  50. eeytennis

    eeytennis Semi-Pro

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    Well, I know someone, who is ranked in the top 30 of their section. However, they have yet to get past the first round of an L1+ and they haven't beaten ANYONE in the top 50 in their section. So I guess my problem is, is how could they be in the top 30, when they can't even beat anyone in the top 50 of their section? I understand that you rank differently, but I've seen some players rankings get cut in half, literally, when they couldn't beat even people ranked below them.
     

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