tennis snob?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by monkeyisland90, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. monkeyisland90

    monkeyisland90 Rookie

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    So I see that there's lot of players in my area that don't want to play lower ranked guys (probally due to potential loss.. but more likely due to not having good rallies or game to be challenged... ). Anyhow, will you only play certain level and always have excuse or ignore someone that is lower ranked? Personally, I'll play anyone cause I really have no interesting life and just being out on court is fresh air... Not that I won't play hard and same against any level... I also see it as good practice since if you're playing in a tournament then you'll see what kind of player you're getting and be prepared since you played variety of levels and styles...
     
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  2. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Some people have very limited time to play tennis, and they would prefer to make the most of it. So to them playing someone who doesn't challenge them could be considered a waste of time.
     
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  3. Dave Mc

    Dave Mc Rookie

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    I was probably a tennis snob when I was younger, and would only play with top juniors, or the very best adults I could find, even if outside our club. But when I had to play a weaker player in tournaments, I would struggle with the lack of pace, and produce too many unforced errors. Over time, I learned to balance my practice matches between strong players and weak players, and the problem was solved. I also implemented the same balance in practice matches for my boys. I found that it was actually very valuable to "dominate" in some of your practice matches... builds confidence, allows you to experiment, and fine tune more aggressive strategies.
     
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  4. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. Its different for juniors vs adults. Juniors can gain experience and still have a lot to learn about matchplay by playing players from all levels. Experienced adults who play at a high level probably aren't looking to learn a lot on the court and are probably looking for a challenge or a competitive outlet. If you are a 5.0 players who spends 60-80 hours a week in the office and can only play twice a week (and one of those times you have to play mixed social doubles with your 3.0 wife) - if you are paying for court time or to be in a structured program like a league, you want to know beforehand that it will be an interesting or competitive match.
     
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  5. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I will go hit with anyone, although probably not down to the 2.5 level (I'm a 3.5) unless I am trying to teach them or I need some exercise running around to chase wild shots.

    In reality, it is rare that someone considerably weaker asks me to hit with them. Similarly, I don't ask stronger players to hit with me either. No one likes to be rejected, feel like they are wasting someone's time, or get in over their head.
     
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  6. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    I'll play anyone one level below (i.e. 0.5 pts on NTRP scale) and up. I agree with some of the posters here on the value of juniors playing all sorts of levels above and below. I have my son doing this right now where he plays 3.0 adults, to other juniors, to club pro's rated 4.5 and 5.0. The more variation he sees, the better he will get at dealing with it.

    Me, not so much. I prefer to get a workout and playing someone at the low end of the 3.5 ranking seems like a waste of time and money unless they are friends. So yes, I am a bit of a tennis snob.
     
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  7. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    Did you go to a large suburban high school? Small enough for cliques but large enough not to be intimate? Your tennis community is high school all over again. A better player doesn't want to hit with a worse one, not just because the rallies are shorter, but because they don't want to be seen hitting with a lower player. If seen by others, they might conclude that they're at the level of the worse player. This explains the deep freeze a good player will give to even a slightly inferior player. It's like being a nobody and asking out the homecoming queen, it just isn't done. Some people hit with anybody, but they're the rebels. Some are social climbers and they only play with groups better than themselves and oh my!, the frosty reaction that 3.5 will give you if you ask them to hit with your group of 3.5s!

    Whatever, it's got more to do with it than just tennis and strokes.

    P.S. Be generous and sometime invite the newbie to play with your group. :)
     
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  8. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    You might want to think about lowering your expectations. Seldom do players compile a long list of tennis contacts that they can speed dial and get a match at anytime, wind, rain or sun. Most tennis players are somewhat fickle and flaky. Most players stay within a certain comfort zone whether it be they are just not that motivated to venture out or have some insecurities in their tennis games. I prefer to play tournaments and occasionally play in a tennis league. I am playing at 4.0 level right now and back 20 years ago, I was playing 4.5 in singles (and winning) and 5.0 in doubles (and winnig). I never had a lack of partners because many of tennis players called me for a match. I still have partners, but not as many. Don't try so hard finding a partner, it's not the end of the world. My approach is to let the tennis player initiate the request to play. If I'm on the court, I set up the match time, then. If we exchange phone numbers, emails, whatever, I still let them initiate the call. If they don't no biggie. If a player is a no-show he is off my list, immediately. I am quite happy just going to the local hangout and banging serves, backboard, ball machine, speed drills, basically solo tennis. I will ask another solo player to hit, if they would like, but I don't really persist. My game is just as good as those that spend a lot of time looking for partners.

    I am not anti-social, I just don't have the patience or time to bother with quirky tennis players. Good luck, you seem to really love Tennis.
     
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  9. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    if no one played down , no one could play up!!!!!! if better players played with you and helped you improve you should return the favor. if the spread is large hit to their forehands, run around your forehand to hit backhands, only second serves,, you get the picture.
     
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  10. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    Unless there is $ involved that is...but you raise a valid point.
     
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  11. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    When I was in school, I would play anybody because I had time. As a working adult, I like to use those precious hours against people of the same skill level. So yes I'm a snob.
     
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  12. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    I am the same, I will play with anyone that asks me. But like Cindy it is rare that someone weaker will ask me to play. I play a very clean looking game and most are to intimidated to ask. Where I used to play there was a practice wall and occassionally I would show up without a planned playing partner... I would always have to ask someone to play... and they would always be shocked that I would ask, afraid that they would not be able to keep up. But once on the court I would just hit to the capabilities of the player. For me... it was better to hit a live ball opposed to off the wall... and I could concentrate on good ball contact, placement, speed and spin control. You can always benefit from playing with just about anyone, as long as you have a game plan. I always ask weaker players not to try and overhit the ball to help me work on my game. :)

    You would be surprised how long some people can keep a rally going if you hit them the same ball in the same location with the same speed and spin.

    But other people have an agenda... they are trying to improve and they feel they can only do that playing with people who are at a certain level. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they are polite about turning down offers. There is no reason not to be civil to anyone, whether it pretains to tennis or life in general.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
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  13. AutoXer

    AutoXer Rookie

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    fixed it for ya :)
     
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  14. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    Correct, so when two players agree to hit, each thinks the other one is a better player. That's why every such agreement is fragile, eventually the deception is found out.
     
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  15. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    I'll play anyone with only one rule. They must be at the level they can keep a 3-4 ball neutral rally going, and have the ball tolerance for heavy topspin shots coming their way.

    I hit with a 3.0 two weeks ago, and that was the first time in a long time I had to end the session. He couldn't handle any type of shot that had moderate to heavy spin at all. His grips were wrong, and it was kind of just a disaster. I fixed his backhand grip which gave him a big 'ahah' moment and a smile on his face. I let him groove it for a little bit, and then went and found a better player to hit with.

    I am not saying all 3.0's hit that badly, they certainly don't. This guy did.
     
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  16. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yup, this is exactly what I am afraid of and why I wouldn't ask someone clearly better than me to hit. After 15 minutes, the other person walks to the net, shakes your hand, pats you on the head and gives you a pointer. And after they leave, I would have to walk to my car and try not to look like I wanted to cry. I'm not saying smoothtennis behaved badly at all, but this is what intimidates people.
     
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  17. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    I sometimes play singles against players who aren't as good to help me regain lost confidence. I get the chance to dictate points, and it's easy to feel confident when going for my shots. But I wouldn't do it all the time because it doesn't reinforce my good habits nor does it help improve my game when I'm put under pressure.

    A real tennis snob would be someone who would rather sit alone and wait for someone else to come rather than rally with you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
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  18. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    In general, I prefer to hit with someone on my level or who is slightly better. Playing with a 4.5 or a 5.0 is pure gold from my perspective... and about as rare.

    Since I also seek to hit with better players, I don't mind playing with people who aren't on my level on occasion, but I don't do it too often as I can only get out to hit 2-3 times a week. If I had to split out my tennis time with worse players/on level/ and better players, it would be 15%/70%/15%.

    There's one guy who I hit with every 2 weeks or so. He can keep a rally going and he's a fun person to hit with, so I don't mind too much. Plus he hooked me up with some free court time over the summer, including some time on red clay, so I pay him back with a few hitting sessions.
     
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  19. tennis24

    tennis24 Rookie

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    you get better by playing better players... you also get better by playing worse to work on consistency
     
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  20. gameboy

    gameboy Hall of Fame

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    I play a lot of social tennis with my wife so I get to play with a pretty wide variety of people from 2.5 ladies to 4.5 guys.

    I literally will play with anyone as long as they have a good attitude.
     
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  21. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    thats how the pros make their living:) also why so many people say "how come i dont play like this in my games" (your opponent isnt trying to nor has the skill to keep the ball right in your target zone over and over again regardless of what you throw at them). its great practice for your own consistency to try and do that for somebody (not in a match but when playing down ir practicing)
     
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  22. abbeytxs

    abbeytxs New User

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    I'm a true tennis hussy, I'll hit with anyone who asks me. It wasn't that long ago that I was the sucky 3.0 looking to hit with the big boys and girls. I owe a lot to the people who were willing to hit with me when I wasn't that good, it only seems right that I do the same.

    I am a snob when it comes to tournaments however. I have played far too many tournaments with partners who were much weaker than me. It is very frustrating and I have pretty much given up playing doubles in any USTA sanctioned tournaments. I'd rather just not play the tournament then tell someone I wont partner with them because they aren't good enough.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
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  23. precision2b

    precision2b Semi-Pro

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    Same here. I don't know many 2.5's but i will hit with anyone that has a good attitude for alot of the same reasons already mention...
     
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  24. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    Been there done that for far too many years... my problem is that I just cannnot say no to anyone that asks me. My resolution... I quit playing tennis for a decade and a half...

    I am back playing and it is great... I suppose I needed the break as well... and I no longer feel that tennis is a grind. It is fun and fresh like when I first started playing with one exception, I have lot more game.
     
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  25. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    I was going to mention that... I did teach for a summer... but got over it. It is hard work to stand in the sun for hours at a time, re-iterating the same things over and over.

    I taught an ex-girlfriend who loved to sport to play... and it is amazing how good you can get at feeding a tennis ball with practice. I could roll a ball 3 feet over the net... hit the service line and have it at waist level on every shot for her no matter where she ran me on the court, and she would never have to move more than a half step in any direction.

    And you are right it can be good for your own game as well... I used it to concentrate on having good form on every shot... and keeping my head still and on the ball.

    In general people like hitting with me... they feel they always play better with me... and I don't have the need to win. Seeing the smiles on the opponents faces and a good laugh on a missed shot is more than enough of a reward for me.

    I have moved past winning all the time to enjoying my time spent on the tennis court.
     
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  26. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Personally, I hate playing with players much lower than me because I feel like you can't get a good practice in. I understand if it's your good friend or a sibling, but if it's someone i'm not that great of friends with and is much below my level, I probably won't play. I can't stand having to pick up the balls so much due to many wild shots.
     
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  27. Annika

    Annika Semi-Pro

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    I don't think this is "shocking" news. Tennis is a snobby sport. We all think we're better than we really are. :twisted:
     
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  28. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, and there are people who even think they are better than you even though you bagel them a couple times in singles. There's this guy at the local park who thinks he's a "Tennis-Master" of some sort, who charges people $30 an hour to teach them tennis, LOL. But when we play, he has a slice fhs/bhs, and he double faults like crazy. After a loss, it's always: I played all day, ate too much, my wrist hurts, I know your game, I'll mix things up next time, don't worry I'm gonna win next time, etc.
     
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  29. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Have you taken some lessons from him?
     
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  30. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    Thomas? No. Ali, yes, thanks to Elias. :( And after all those months of watching youtube on the WW forehand, Ali claimed that my FH was his creation even though he had no idea how to hit one.

    PS, I heard Ali taught you how to take balls out of the air or something similar, how was that? lol!
     
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  31. papatenis

    papatenis Semi-Pro

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    For the good of the game, it's important to play with lesser players than yourself. How else are you going to improve if you don't get to play with players better than you.

    That's how it works, in order to gain, you need to give.
     
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  32. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    LOL. I learned it when I was around 15 from the coach I had.
    He advocated hitting groundstroke volleys if you were stuck around the
    service line. He also had 2-handers hit swinging BH volleys as well, but
    didn't think it would be as consistent of a shot for the 1HBH to hit.
    This was mostly for shots around low chest to ankle height.
     
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  33. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    $30/hour isn't very much for tennis lessons. But I wouldn't take lessons from him @ any price.
     
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  34. Tennisman912

    Tennisman912 Semi-Pro

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    monkeyisland90,


    I think it is good to play with anyone you can, especially those weaker because as someone else said, if you don’t, you can’t be too upset with all the better players not playing with you. It works both ways. I will play with anyone else who asks or needs someone to fill in. Except for the very elite, (of which there are few) most who won’t play with those below them know they may lose to a weaker player and then they couldn’t stick to their false belief that they are a good or better player and they won’t risk the hit to the ego.

    I have a group I play in with groups after us that are 3-4 levels below my level. I fill in with them on average, twice a month. I do it because I love to play, it helps their game and it is obvious how much they enjoy the interaction with a more advanced player. Throw in a tweener or whatever and you may make their week as few have even seen one in person. Sure, watching some of the strokes and ideas of strategy can be like hearing fingernails on a chalkboard. But forget it and just have fun. They are. They also want to say hello when we are coming off the court because as we all know, everyone want to feel a part of a more advanced group, not matter what level you and they are. I am with Ripper014 in that even a very low level player can sustain a decent rally if they get a consistent ball, especially to their best shot. Get them to take a couple steps back so they aren’t leaning back trying to hit all the balls you hit near the baseline they are not used to seeing and they can do well and handle a fair bit of pace to their favorite shot.

    It is one thing to tell them some advice that can be hard to visualize (such as not over hitting or swinging too hard) and really "get it.". It is completely different when they see it on the court themselves and how much pace and control can be generated without swinging with all you got (or whatever). When they see it, they then understand it and are more likely to try it or stay with it but at least can put it into context of actual play. That live feedback is very valuable IMHO.

    Monkey, the best way to overcome is to make it known you will fill in if your club has someone not show up (bonus points if you live real close). Once you are known to play with any group or level (and can adjust level as needed), you will be a valuable commodity in your tennis community/club. Yes, it is painful sometimes playing with those that are very weak. But no matter how bad it is I wouldn’t bail on them unless I had previous appt./match which I told them about prior to hitting with them. I won’t make them feel like total hacks even if they are. Suck it up, smile and they will appreciate it and help the game at the same time.

    Good tennis and take one for the team.

    TM
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2010
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  35. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, it took 3 lessons to figure out he was something other than what he was representing on the court. I got to my 4th lesson on how to hit the one hand backhand and that was the last lesson I paid for.
     
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  36. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    I dont like it when guys of 5.5+ skill dont play weaker players, imo that shows no class. If a 2.0 lvl player came up to me and asked for a hit I would always say yes. And if I see a lower lvl kid practicing by him/herself Ill go up and ask them if they want to hit. I just really cant stand snobby people.
     
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  37. AlpineCadet

    AlpineCadet Hall of Fame

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    If that's true, then you should probably quit tennis.
     
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  38. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    I remember one tennis book stating "if tennis matches were only between perfectly matched opponents, there wouldn't be many matches." I take that philosophy to matches and practice - up to a point. If someone comes up to me - after getting to see me hit - and is cocky when they ask if we can hit, we aren't going to hit. Or if they are defensive - or clueless - when asked about their NTRP. I do have one snobbish trait - I will usually say no to people who don't look like they are in somewhat decent shape. I, rightly or wrongly, assume haven't been playing and are looking for someone to help them resurrect their game. I try to steer them to seek out a pro.
     
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  39. USERNAME

    USERNAME Professional

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    Why??? Because Im nice? Its fun to help people out if you have the time. Iv trained very hard to get where I am and I know what it feels like to be insulted by older better players, it feels bad and I dont wanna do that to anyone. Your one of the snobby people that make others not want to compete, yeah?
     
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  40. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    I play much better against players a level above me. I think I play to the quality of my competition a bit. Plus when I took lessons my coach served 115ish so I actually return fast serves better! A slow, ugly serve is more difficult for me to return!

    Sometimes playing a lower level player is good for working on the basics, I think.
     
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  41. ALten1

    ALten1 Rookie

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    Are you playing better or is the better player playing worse?

    Around my area a lot of the better players will hit with you and answer questions you might have. Lesser level players really appreciate it and usually cheer for those that offer help. The better players that don't like helping weaker/newer players usually get dog cussed...behind their backs of course.
     
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  42. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    until you can play better against the lower level ,handle the slow serve etc. you are not at a higher level than they .
    when you play a lower level player yes you can work on your weaknesses, if you are still working on basics than probably you play better against better players is because the comes back!! you get to rally alittle.
     
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  43. anantak2k

    anantak2k Semi-Pro

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    I am pretty used to playing people under my level. Almost all my friends are a lot worse than me and playing them can still be fun as long as they try their best. On the other hand there are players out there who are bad but THINK that they are better and have MORE skills than the actually do. The start playing you and attempt shots that they can't hit unless they get lucky 1 out of 10 times or so. They just over hit and spray the ball all over the place and its a complete waste of your time because you feel like you are picking up the balls that they are spraying and not actually playing tennis. People like this really **** me off and I make sure to never hit against them again. Instead of working on their form and consistency, they go for shots that they are not capable of hitting even 10% of the time.

    Mentally I feel that it is better for me to play players who are either at a similar level or better than me. When I play against people who I feel I can easily win against: 1. I use stupid shot selections 2. I really don't try. I tend to get very cocky and overconfident and sometimes that bites me in the ass and I lose. Of course I never actually learn from these mistakes but that is besides the point. These are all just friendly matches. If its actually an important match, then I am able to focus better and bagel or breadstick most of these players.
    On the other hand when I play against someone better I feel like they push me past my limits. They force me to have to play better in order to keep up. I make sure I try my best and stay consistent and only go for winners when I get that one short ball. It's definitely a lot of fun especially when they are just 1 level better than you. I actually end up winning a lot of the time because I frustrate them with my consistency. Normally, I am an aggressive player but when the other guy is that much better I am forced to play more defense. And that's not a problem because I can run down any balls and do a little bit more than just push it back.
     
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  44. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    Well, actually I was undefeated and won a trophy in that league. I can "handle" a slow, ugly serve I just have had a lot more practice returning serves that are somewhat fast. Thanks for playing!
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
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  45. heninfan99

    heninfan99 Legend

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    I'm sure they are playing worse too and that we meet somewhere in the middle.
    A pro example would be Becker playing Brad Gilbert. hehehe

     
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  46. KSJ1979

    KSJ1979 New User

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    nicely put....
     
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  47. fruitytennis1

    fruitytennis1 Professional

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    I wish i knew
    In summer ill hit with any 1 as long as they can hit 4-5 balls back.
    In winter(when i have to pay for court time) i wont hit with some 1 much lower than my level
     
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  48. Storm_Kyori

    Storm_Kyori Hall of Fame

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    California
    I play my rate level and above. i do have some discrepancies when it comes to age and sex. i can't and will not play with a 3.0/3.5 elderly woman. I can't it's really no fun for anybody. they sometimes tell me to hit with them when they need a 4th, but it's just hard. you can spew all this garbage about it being good practice and change of tactics and i have to say it's not. i slow down my swing and try to hit it at them, instead of what you're supposed to which is away. a elderly man, can take it that's why he's out there and accepted or called for the challenge.

    if someone is really trying hard and giving their best effort an attitude, for sure i can play with them no matter what level.
     
    #48

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