Tennis Tips, me playing tennis

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Topspinner271, Jun 25, 2013.

  1. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,321
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    Didn't know D3 gives scholarships.
    I DO know D3 tennis because my hitting and practice partners were mostly D3 singles players. In fact, several from different colleges.
     
    #51
  2. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,359
    all D3 is no scholarship.
    the difference in levels between top D3 and average D3 are very very wide. in cali, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Cal Lutheran, UC Santa Cruz, Redlands, Pomona-Pitzer made top 20 this year. any other schools can be lumped to be average. LeeD, if your ex D3 hitting partners weren't from high ranked D3 at their time, they were closer to average and would be very different level than top D3.
     
    #52
  3. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,076
    I don't think you guys know what top D3 is. A top D3 school (Amherst, Williams, Emory, etc.) lineup consists of four and five star recruits. There are blue chips in D3. Amherst's #1 singles was ranked 19 nationally out of high school. I don't know if fruitytennis is at that level or playing for one of those schools, but as far as NTRP goes, any kid playing for any one of those schools is 5.5 at least.
     
    #53
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    36,321
    Location:
    East side of San Francisco Bay
    VERY few teenagers are competitive in A/Open tournaments, even if they hit better, run faster, are bigger physically.
     
    #54
  5. thisiscrazy

    thisiscrazy Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Would have to agree with Leed here. If the OP has swing issues, that several responders have reiterated, with slowly fed balls, basic logic would say his form wouldn't be better in actual match play, let alone even real practicing.

    But who knows, maybe the OP plays better that he poses.
     
    #55
  6. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,359
    I'm not certain what you mean by A/Open tournaments, but really good teenagers mainly compete within their age group 16u or 18u since that's where their real competition is. many top teenagers like 4 or 5 stars will crush most Open tournaments and will find them boring.
     
    #56
  7. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,112
    No, I am a 4.0, but yes, I used to be an open level player years ago.
    I'm basing my judgement not on my playing, but on the kids that age that I'm teaching. My estimation comes from trying to translate hitting fed balls to actual match play. Yes, that is a risky proposition, but I've seen how that translates for most kids. Those strokes don't translate well to being hit while scrambling around the court after random balls that may be hard-hit, sliced, or bounced off the frame. It takes juniors with much better fundamentals than the OP to beat decent adult players. A lot of it is just because they are juniors. Their serves haven't developed, they aren't yet good at returning serve, the ability to play in the mid-court and come in to volley is weak. If the game were all groundstrokes, yes the OP might easily win a match against a 3.5 player, but it isn't and I don't think the OP realizes that. He would win few if any games against a good 4.0 player and would likely lose to the best 3.5s. To top it off, his groundstrokes are really quite poor. I'm hard on the OP because like many kids, he doesn't realize how far down the ladder he is at tennis.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
    #57
  8. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,112
    ??

    A lot of open level tournaments are won by Division I college players, so I don't know what you are referring to. Maybe there are different levels of players playing in open tournaments around there - there are pretty few open tournaments around here so the best players tend to play them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
    #58
  9. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,112
    Yes, you are correct about that, but topspin groundstrokes are not very important. Consistency, placement, ability to mix up speeds, depth, and spins, ability to take advantage of balls that bounce mid-court, ability to volley, strength of first and especially second serve, and serve return capability are far more important than hitting 5/6 decent topspin shots in a row. For a junior to beat a good 4.0 guy, he needs to have significantly better groundstrokes than the 4.0 to offset the typically weaker aspects of a junior's game. He does not have them.
    I'm just trying to get the OP to understand that. There has been a lot of good advice about staying steady, hitting through the ball, adjusting his backswing, etc. It does no favors to the kid for someone to say he is at a level where he, in reality, would have little shot of even winning a game.
     
    #59
  10. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    1) Im 6ft hardly small.
    2) That was over a month ago, after playing no tennis for a year apart from an hour a week.
    3)We were going for a 100 shot rally there.
    4) Your wish is my command seem like people really want a matchplay video..
    5) Ill crush any 3.5 4.0 and 4.5 by the looks of youtube.

    6) anyone from England will know what this means but I am a 5.2 LTA rating, that will hopefully give someone sense of how good i am in a match.
    7) I dont think i am better than what i actually am, i am very modest, but when someone tells me i cant deal with power deep grounds and spins i get angry because how on earth can they assume that.. Lets seem them post a video.
     
    #60
  11. josofo

    josofo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    570
    If he can do 100 shot rally's with full strokes I'd say he is atleast 4.0
     
    #61
  12. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,112
    Supposedly an LTA 5.2 is a lower-level 4.5 here in the U.S. http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_3274_original.PDF
    However, league players are generally ranked lower than they theoretically should be (see lots of sandbagger threads) and the USTA has generally driven people down in the ratings over the years, so the level that was a 4.5 is now a 4.0. There are very few 5.0's around - your instructor would probably play in a 5.0 league (perhaps as a 5.5, you can do that in some situations) if he had an ATP ranking a while ago. On YouTube videos, people often inflate their claimed rating, so I can't blame you for a misapprehension on that.
    Unless you are crushing 5.1s and 4.2s, you wouldn't be crushing USTA 4.5s.

    A match play video would be cool. I can better tell how far off my guesses were.
     
    #62
  13. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    Fair enough, I dont care about USTA or what ever they are though, that wasnt my initial opinion. but 4.5 sounds about right what ever.. BUT Youtube make them about to be really ****!! Excuse my language!

    Anyways here is a small clip of me in a practice match http://www.ubersense.com/video/view/vi2WP1KB
     
    #63
  14. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    The next vids are on a another thread!
     
    #64
  15. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,112
    Short clip, but good. Technique on serve is better than that on groundstrokes - rare for kids these days. Might be a couple things to pick on there, but can't see enough to tell for sure. Since I don't want to say anything wrong about a serve that is pretty good, I'll leave it be. A good serve like that definitely bumps you up in the ratings higher than I guessed.
    Basically, just take the good advice given here about hitting through the ball and being stable. Those are pretty ugly groundstrokes. A lot of it is just letting the racket flow through low to high instead of forcing it up by yanking the racket and jumping. You'll get the hang of it if you let yourself relax. That will help your movement, also.
    Learn to take the ball on the rise so you don't have to move back like you did on that backhand. Another thing adults generally do better than juniors. If you get that far back in the court, you would be a dead duck in 4.0 singles (the opponent would be sitting on the net) unless you can pinpoint a lob right on the baseline - which many adult 4.0 players can do.
    These are all things that develop gradually as you get experience.
    One thing I've learned through the years is to always respect your opponent no matter what they look like. There are lots of guys who, when you see them, you would say they couldn't play tennis at all who would crush you like a bug.
    It's happened to me even back when I used to be a very good player, and it will happen to you.
     
    #65
  16. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    I hit the ball more on the rise than moving back, but that was a big point. so i opted to move back
     
    #66
  17. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,112
    Then it is just a matter of doing it enough so that you are comfortable with it even on a big point.
    (Of course, playing conservative or aggressive on a big point is situation dependent)
     
    #67
  18. fruitytennis1

    fruitytennis1 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,092
    Location:
    I wish i knew
    I am playing at one of those top schools
    Anyways, my point was proved in the other thread
     
    #68
  19. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,898
    Location:
    A green and pleasant land
    So are Gulbis's - but they are also very effective. Are the OP's strokes effective? We don't know yet - he's a 5.2 ranking over here (a ranking which you have to earn, you can't self rate) and you don't see tons of div 5 rankings and higher, but we haven't seen enough yet to judge the effectiveness of his strokes.

    I'm on a campaign to stop people (coaches included) judging tennis aesthetically when they should be judging shots on safety (biomec efficiency) and effectiveness!
     
    #69
  20. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,667
    Location:
    Here and There
    I had a quick view of the video, I gotta leave but I'll add more later. The thing that stood out for me thats inefficient is your take back on the backhand. On the forehand you go racket head up right away, then drop nicely which is great and you keep the racket moving. On the backhand from that angle it looks like you go down first, then up and back down again, stopping and starting your swing back up again.
     
    #70
  21. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    I agree. And yet, any one-hander would rather have Gasquet's slingshot of a BH rather than the classic looking one of Federer...

    I just think here the jumping is unnecessary and consumes too much energy for what it's worth, but that's all.
     
    #71
  22. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    Hey i posted a two more recent videos on my other thread which are much better, me returning and serving if you want to take a look?

    Also i have been told that (back hand thing) working on it.
    BTW you're forehand looks like Stanislas Wawrinka haha.
     
    #72
  23. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    Do you want to look at my other thread?
     
    #73
  24. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    3,667
    Location:
    Here and There
    I'll check out your other thread later on tonight, I gotta go coach. Wawrinka? Never heard that before, though I wouldn't mind having his backhand....and bank account :)
     
    #74
  25. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    Well I didn't see by the time I posted. Much cleaner. Too bad the videos are a bit short. I had though you'd continue posting in the same thread instead of starting another one, but now I saw it.
     
    #75
  26. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    more the forehand than the backhand ballA haha
     
    #76
  27. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    ill notify everyone on this thread and thread no 2 if i start another one. im playing tonight(many people are from usa aNd the time difference is confusing) but expect a vid thats longer!
     
    #77
  28. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    ^Just keep it in the same thread, it will be easier to find.
     
    #78
  29. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,898
    Location:
    A green and pleasant land
    Topspinner - exactly what is it you are looking for in these threads? If you are working with a good coach (and you have some good coaches at exeter) then you really don't want to be listening to views of an internet message board. Sure, there are some really god coaches here, but they get hidden amongst the weekend warriors who love to spout off!

    If you just want people to tell you you look good etc (ego massage) then you're probably out of luck there too as this is one of the only places where you'll find a touring pro told he is "at best a 3.5 NTRP"!

    So, exactly what are you looking to hear?
     
    #79
  30. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    like i explained earlier another perspective on my tennis. i got a few good tips anyways!
     
    #80
  31. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,076
    If you don't mind me asking, which one? I know some of the guys at those schools; I'm playing for Haverford this coming fall.
     
    #81
  32. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    What's Haverford?
     
    #82
  33. max pl

    max pl Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    334
    yo topspinner, you're right. you're mad good and could probably play on the pro tour in another year or two.

    you're movement especially is excellent and shows that youve been playing tennis, and sports as a whole, for a long time.
     
    #83
  34. lightthestorm

    lightthestorm Rookie

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    314
    He's great, but kind of overrating him now lol. He's probably top 120 in the class (if he was in the USA), but not good enough to be pro. He would get a scholarship to a D1 school though.

    He probably can't beat me yet (although it might be close)... only 8th grader/rising 9th that's ever beaten me is a guy named Spencer Brown. Frustrating.
     
    #84
  35. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,076
    Haverford is a college just outside Philly. We play in the Centennial Conference (D3); we just finished in 2nd place, behind Johns Hopkins and ahead of Franklin and Marshall and Swarthmore.
     
    #85
  36. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,504
    Location:
    The Peak of Good Living
    Hehe, get used to explaining this, unless you're talking to someone from PA/NJ... I'm an alum and it's rare that I encounter someone who's heard of it around here.

    Have fun at the 'Ford, it's a nice place to spend 4 years!
     
    #86
  37. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,076
    Serendipity! Did you play there?
     
    #87
  38. max pl

    max pl Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    334
    yeh i feel the same way.

    he's got a nice topspin forehand, but as good as he is, he probably couldnt beat my little sister. she plays 2nd doubles on her high school team. she beat a kid twice her size though once... his name was Jonah Smitz.

    but i still stand by my earlier statement, what 5.1 with that incredible footwork couldnt be a pro in a few years?
     
    #88
  39. lightthestorm

    lightthestorm Rookie

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    314
    Now you are underrating him... 2nd doubles in high school? A girl? That's like 6th or 7th on varsity, and opposite gender.

    Anyone who's been playing for 2-3 years can easily make top 7 on a good high school team. He would crush your sister in under 30 minutes, sorry to say.
     
    #89
  40. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,504
    Location:
    The Peak of Good Living
    Nope, unfortunately that was many years before I got interested in tennis (I'm an aging rec hacker). Kind of galling to think that I spent all that time living two minutes walk from the courts and never used them...
     
    #90
  41. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,112
    Ash, I was commenting on him unnecessarily jumping (and not in rhythm with the shot) and yanking the racket upward out of its natural swing path. Both are biomechanically poor. Gulbis' stretch of his front arm serves a biomechanic purpose of not pulling his front arm in and around too soon. I was calling the stroke ugly to get the OP's attention since he seemed to be ignoring the good advice of others who had advised him to be more stable and fluid and he was acting like he thought his strokes were perfect (as kids are wont to do).

    I will have players do seemingly odd things on order to fix flaws by getting the player to get the proper feeling of a portion of a stroke.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2013
    #91
  42. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    So basically what i gathered is:
    1) hit through the ball and not yank upwards
    2) dont jump on forehand
    3) set outside foot before prepairing for the stroke
    4) stay loose and more fluid
    5) dont stop on serve

    thats all i got yeah?
     
    #92
  43. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    Yeah. And fix your toss. Personally, to hit more in front (even on serves), I tell myself: try to watch the ball through the strings. It does wonders. It's so effortless, you're only moving the arm like a whip, fully extended at contact. I sometimes wonder why I try so hard to hit hard. It almost feels like you're gaining time by hitting so much in front.
    http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/federervisiontechnique.html

    That study is splitting the hairs for nothing, like fixing balls to an item to correct the vision. Don't take it too literally. But the idea is there: trying to look to the ball through the strings. You're never going to see the ball through the strings because the ball is too fast and too close to you, but that's what it feels like. The body is stable, almost like it's not moving, the head still, so still it almost leans back a bit. Since the body moves less and only the arm goes forward, you gain stability. You're also forced to prepare earlier.

    Now, if I could do it consistently and not forgetting it all the time, it would be perfect. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
    #93
  44. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    So toss consistency. And trying to watch the ball through the strings on groundstrokes?
     
    #94
  45. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    Yeah. You cannot actually see the ball through the strings. But it's what it feels like since you hit so much in front. If you read the article in my link, I think you can understand.
     
    #95
  46. rafafan20

    rafafan20 Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    964
    Location:
    USA
    whats up with the hopping on the forehand? robbing yourself of power
     
    #96
  47. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    Delete post.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
    #97
  48. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    Delete post.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
    #98
  49. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,515
    Location:
    France
    Delete post.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
    #99
  50. Topspinner271

    Topspinner271 New User

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages:
    68
    I sort of improved on that, if you want to see my other thread, it has two videos..
     

Share This Page