Tension loss - am I stringing wrong?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by xeropwnage, Jul 11, 2013.

  1. xeropwnage

    xeropwnage New User

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    • I've only been stringing for about a month. Last week I used my dropweight (Gamma Progression 200) and strung my frame (Angell TC100) with syngut (Volkl Classic) at 55 lbs.
    • Immediately after I finished, I used racquetTune and measured tension at 53.1 lbs, which I figured was a pretty decent reading.
    • About 10 mins later, I measured again for the heck of it and it read about 51 lbs. So there was a little tension loss right away, which I assume is normal?
    • The next day, I went out to the courts to practice serves for about an hour. I haven't touched the frame since.
    • One week later (today), I measured tension again out of curiosity and it read 47.3 lbs, which is about 10.8% tension loss from the initial reading, according to racquetTune.
    1. Is this kind of tension loss normal with syngut?
      • I barely played with it - one session of serve practice, the rest of the time in my bag.
    2. I think I read somewhere that once all the knots are tied, the strings will compensate for uneven tension by equalizing themselves to a common tension.
      • Is this true or did I just make this up?
      • Maybe this is why there was tension loss in the few minutes following the initial reading?
    3. Is it because I might be tying my knots wrong?
      • I've been using Parnell knots exactly as YULitle's video instructs.
      • I use a starting clamp to start my crosses, so as far as I know it's okay to use a Parnell knot for everything.
    4. Any tips to help preserve tension longer?
      • Can you pre-stretch syngut?
      • Will it make a difference?
    5. Will the strings reach a point where it will just maintain the tension until they break, or will they continue to lose tension until they break?
    Thanks.
     
    #1
  2. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    how does it FEEL?

    perhaps, as a new stringer, you may have abit more tension loss
    but i wouldn't suspect much if you feel confident.

    I think the tension loss you are seeing is normal and what we ALL play with is a tension much lower than what it was strung at, pending the string of course (may vary).

    they will settle at a fairly constant tension which is what most of is are after,.........kinda.......
     
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  3. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    I recently strung one of my rackets with Solinco Tour Bite Soft (poly).

    Strung at 50lbs on a drop weight machine
    Came off the stringer at 50.2lbs
    After one use it had dropped to mid 40s (I think it was 46.5)
    and after a couple more uses it had dropped to about 40lbs.


    Tension loss is completely normal.


    (measurements taken with rackettune)
     
    #3
  4. xeropwnage

    xeropwnage New User

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    I guess I was being paranoid then. Thanks, guys.
     
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  5. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

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    Totally normal. It will probably lose more tension before it stabilizes. The best ones (synthetic nylons, not poly) will be at under 13% loss at the 3 hour mark and stay almost level after that. The bad ones will continue to lose tension and by the time they break they will be over 20%. Poly will be much worse.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2013
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  6. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Totally agree with the 13% number. This seems to be around the average for nylon multifilament strings. I have not used monofilament "synthetic gut" nylon strings in ages but I'd assume it is about the same.
     
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  7. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    This is about normal depending on what type of string you're using. When I strung at 54 I would get about a drop to 52ish a day later and after a few hitting sessions it would settle down to 47ish or so. That's when it would begin to feel good. Eventually I went down to string at 44 and now I string at 40. It doesn't lose as much now, so it's the string and how much it loses based on how much tension you pull on it.
     
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  8. bigheadzjr

    bigheadzjr New User

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    have you consider the temperature effect as well? I know hotter temp loosen tension as well. just in my opinion it has happen
     
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  9. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    Tension loss is normal, as others have said. However, the 10 minute tension loss you measured strikes me as a little odd. It's possible that it was an outlier reading -- I have racquetTune too and it's pretty good -- but that there could very well be a margin of error with every reading, and your 10 minute reading was an outlier on the loose side.

    The other possibility is knot related, but perhaps not in the way you've raised: you may not be tightening them enough.

    In case you haven't already seen this, here's a link to imo the best video on that.

    Imo there really is no substitute for using a starting clamp for this.

    Good luck!
     
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  10. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    #10
  11. Smasher08

    Smasher08 Hall of Fame

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    I've been doing that for well over a year now and have yet to break anything -- including 17g gut. All in all, I'm happy with the tension maintenance I've been getting . . . although I recognize it could be correlation rather than causation.

    Are you concerned about greater tension loss when doing it by hand? And are you bumping up the tension on your last strings higher than +5 lbs to compensate??
     
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  12. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I use a starting clamp but don't pull too tight, my concern is sliding the knot up the anchor string. I do not bump up the tension on the last string.
     
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    It could be how you string or the PE of stringer you're using.

    On a lockout stringer the tensioned string is held at the point of stretch when the tensioner locks out and from that point on loses tension (more dramatically at first.)

    On a constant pull tension the string is held at the point of stretch when the tensioner reaches reference tension (excluding any overshoot.) while you are moving the clamps the tensioner continues to sample the tension on the string and when it falls enough the tensioner stretches the string more until reference tension is reached again (again excluding overshoot.)

    So it stands to reason a lockout will produce a softer string bed when compared to a constant pull if both are set to the same tension. But if you allow the string to relax and pull again you can get a stiffer string bed with a lockout.

    On the other hand the longer you allow the CP machine to pull the stiffer the string bed will be and the less tension loss you will have. Stringing too fast will produce a stiff string bed at first but over time you will lose more tension.

    Nothing is wring really with either machine or method and long as you're consistent and produce a feel you like.
     
    #13
  14. BabolatTennis9

    BabolatTennis9 New User

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    rackettune judges the tension by the sound so you need to hit the string dead center or it wont work well
     
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  15. Bdole

    Bdole New User

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    I'm having trouble seeing what Richard is doing in the video since his hands are out of the frame.

    YULitle's method appears to entail grabbing the back end of the loop and pulling forward, parallel to the anchor string, then up and back in an arc. The tail end is then pulled up to finish the knot. I like how the first step also tightens the string's slack on the outside of the frame at the grommet.

    Is Richard pulling up on the front end of the loop, then pulling the tail up to finish the knot? Does this also remove the slack outside the frame, or does that need to be manually pushed through and held with the thumb while tightening the knot?
     
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  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I think Richard just gives a quick firm pull on the string and does not rock it back and forth like YULitle suggested and I used to do. When you tighten the second look make sure you hold the loop with one hand and pull on the tag end so the string does not kink on top of the first knot especially with poly that makes for an ugly loose knot. With a textured string just a little twist in the second loop on top of the first makes it look bad.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
    #16
  17. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    Racquet can lost 6-12% tension in 24 hours just sitting. So could be perfectly normal. And, I would not gauge tension loss with just the racquet tune app. There are much better ways to do it, but of course we can only use what we have access to.
     
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  18. Bdole

    Bdole New User

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    Thanks, will give that a try next racquet.
     
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  19. Wes

    Wes Rookie

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    Parnell knot clarification

    Bdole, or any others who may have trouble seeing, may benefit from these two videos that offer a different view/perspective of the Parnell knot.

    One is a bit out of focus, but shot from behind (stringer's perspective).
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqE1xYrZLCs

    The other is shot from the front, but has better focus.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99HmWW5lu1E
     
    #19
  20. osutennis24

    osutennis24 Rookie

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    ummm, what I thought was the parnell knot, maybe I was wrong, it's still a good looking knot i'm putting out, but looks different that what he's doing.

    I've been going O-U-T, then O-U and through the loop I just created like he did, what made his different was and it was hard to tell, looks like he goes through the 2nd loop that is created, where as I don't go through the 2nd loop

    Like I said though, the knots look good and have gotten compliments on it
     
    #20
  21. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    You're tying a VS Starting knot. The Parnell, wilson and VS Starting knot are all similar but different. All three are great knots though.
     
    #21
  22. bluegrass_stringer

    bluegrass_stringer Semi-Pro

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    As long as you tie a good knot that works and looks professional, all is good. And yes, getting out the slack from the frame before tying the knot is a good idea. You don't need to be obsessed with it, but just pull it as tight as you can, and then cinch up the knot. In the grand scheme of things, the string before the knot will lose tension anyway, so even if the "slack" is not super tight against the frame, its probably in the noise.
     
    #22
  23. Wes

    Wes Rookie

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    Noise? What does that mean? Made perfect sense up until that last word.
     
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