The AO should be played on Har Tru

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by VOLLEY KING, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    There should be four distinct surfaces.

    The world plays on four Surfaces and they should all be represented at grand slams.

    Hartru is not as slow as you think.....the USO was held on Hartru for a period and Connors actually beat Borg on Hartru .
     
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  2. formula16

    formula16 Rookie

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    why dont USO play on Har Tru then?
     
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  3. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Because its been hard court for longer. The AO can't seem to get it right.

    When rebound ace failed they just copied the USA....even used the same company.
     
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  4. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    har-tru is still clay. might as well play the AO on carpet, no carpet tournaments are left now.
     
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  5. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Carpet Can be made to be extremely slow.

    The grandslam should represent surfaces people actually play on. Very few play on carpet .
     
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  6. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    it can be faster than hardcourt. I didn't think har Tru was used that much these days either. Carpet was totally removed from tour a few years back, but it has a fairly rich history within the game and a lot of fans were angry carpet was fazed out.

    I mean I don't see the need for a change, but I rather carpet than Har tru. Just my opinion.
     
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  7. gavna

    gavna Hall of Fame

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    Well for decades we only had two surfaces - grass and clay - so the USO should go back to grass as thats what it was for the longest. How many Har Tru courts are there in Oz?????? The world also plays on a lot more than 4 surfaces - you have TennisQuick, the Syn Grass/sand stuff you see in the UK and Oz, Slate courts in the UK, pure Cement.......on and on.
     
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  8. syke

    syke Professional

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    Carpet or Astro Turf for AO...
    There's no need for 2 GS hard courts.

    I much prefer variety of surfaces..
     
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  9. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    I'm an Australian and I'd be more than happy for it to be changed ..... to a very fast hardcourt.
     
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  10. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Yeah.....but why copy the USA?

    Why not have your own individual surface?

    The FO is known for representing red clay

    Wimbledon is known for grass

    The USO is known for its harcourt

    And the AO after daily with rebound ace didnt know what to do so they just copied the USA?

    Why not have something that as unique as your Kangaroos or kowala bears??

    You may not want Har Tru but then why not something else? Something that is your own?

    As fan I would love to see a 4th unique surface. If you want fast then why not wood?

    Personally I dont think that would be fairness. For a while 3 grand slams were played on grass. That's three fast surfaces . There should be 4 different surfaces with four different speeds.

    Hartru is faster than red clay and grass is faster than HC. All
    Four surfaces have four different bounces.

    The AO is just to similar to the USO.
     
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  11. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    I'm not interested in copying the USO in the least - the USO surface is not fast these days.
    I'd like a fast surface - the USO, Wimbledon and the FO aren't fast - a fast court AO would be the point of difference you seek.
     
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  12. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    Also, as a matter of personal preference I much prefer hardcourt over clay, grass, or anything else one would care to mention with the possible exception of carpet.
     
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  13. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    It's not spelled phonetically.
     
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  14. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    I prefer hc over everything else as well.....but it's not about what I prefer but rather having four distinct surfaces that would truly represent the greatest player.

    Agassi was able to win on four distinct surfaces : rebound ace ,grass,HC, and red clay.

    Agassiz achievement may actually be only true career grand slam.....greater than Laver who only won on grass surfaces & clay.

    The AO needs to have it's own unique surface .
     
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  15. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Both the USO and the AO abandonned their only true tradition - grass.

    The AO is cushioned hardcourt and the US is hardcourt, so I think there's a small difference.

    In any event, the change accurately reflects the overall dominance of hardcourt.

    What's the point of playing on a surface that's rarer just to create a difference?
     
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  16. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    The AO is also played in indoor/outdoor stadia that serve other purposes, so its impossible for them to be dedicated clay courts.
     
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  17. sdont

    sdont Legend

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    Who still plays on HarTru these days?

    I bet most players these days actually played their last match on carpet more recently than their last match on HarTru.
     
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  18. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    I don't think your correct.....clay is played on by more people than grass is and I would say half the world plays on clay.

    Most of Europe with the exception of Engalnd plays on clay.
    South America mainly plays on clay. The USA plays on both hard and clay.

    I would guess that Canada also plays on both . I have no idea about Africa , Australia or the middle east .

    But I think clay is far from being "rare".

    Half the world plays on clay....in fact it may be the most popular surface in the world yet it's only repped in one GS.

    Rebound ace was rare.....and as unique as Australia.

    Australia is rare and that's what makes it cool. Simply copying the USA.....is not what Australia is all about.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
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  19. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    I would love the Australian Open to be on a really fast court. US Open is really a medium court these days.
     
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  20. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    In the USA it's very popular. It's played on equally as much as hardcourt actually.

    Carpet is rare
     
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  21. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    Clay is not big in Australia, and in some large population centres it is non-existent, but it is big in Europe and the Americas.

    Clay is very water-intensive so there's no possibility of the surface developing from its very small, and antiquated, base in Australia.



     
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  22. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    It's not about making tennis the best for your favorite player.

    Furthermore I don't believe the speed of the court would help serve and volley.

    Serve and volley ended before the courts were changed . Serve and volley ended with Luxilon strings.

    Yanick noah a serve and volleyer beat wilander on red clay . Pancetta another serve and volleyer beat Borg twice at the FO serving and volleying . McEnroe should have won the FO serve and volleying .

    So it's not the court but the strings. Get rid of poly and you will have serve and volley tennis back.
     
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  23. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Whoa!!! I don't agree at all. At least not in NYC.

    There are at least as many clay courts here if not more than hard court.....I'm talking about private clubs.

    Public parks are all hard court because they are cheaper that's true.

    Although in NYC we have plenty of parks with clay actually.
     
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  24. Murrayfan31

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    Not necessarily looking for serve and volley. I'm just tired of these players getting rewarded for heavy topspin. The courts in Cincinnati would be ideal speed for me.
     
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  25. sdont

    sdont Legend

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    I meant tour players. Most top players are European these days and I don't know how many of them play the odd 250 tournament on HarTru in the USA.

    Btw, the ATP reference it as a 'clay' tournament and doesn't make the difference with red clay.
     
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  26. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Djokovic and Federer are not heavy topspin.

    If you are referring to Nadal I don't really think that's the reason he won the USO or Wimbledon.

    On fast grass a guy by the name of Bjorn Borg I think won Wimbledon like 5 times? His game was similar to Nadal. And he also made the finals of the USO a billion times.

    Wilander actually won the USO on a fast hardcourt and so did Vilas.
    And others ......

    On the other hand Connors beat Borg at the USO on Hartru and Soderling beat Nadal on red clay.

    Pannetta beat Borg 2x on red clay......

    I don't think speeding up the surface would make a difference.....but taking away polyester from Nadal would be far more devastating than the surface.
     
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  27. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Trust me they are very different .

    In fact indoors Har Tru is actually pretty fast .....even possibly faster than some very slow hard courts.

    It's hard to compare.....the bounce on Har Tru is just unique. It's different than other surfaces .
     
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  28. phnx90

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  29. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    i agree. they should change AO to a surface that suits San Rafael better
     
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  30. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    I actually think Har Tru would benefit Federer the most .

    Hartru is unique .....it's somewhere I'm between hard and red clay .

    But it's not just the speed the bounce is different so it's hard to compare .

    Remember that Connors beat Borg on Hartru......

    Djokovics ground strokes would not be as big and Nadals topspin would not bounce as high as on red clay.

    Hartru for Federer would be like the porridge for goldilocks an the three bears ...... "just right"
     
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  31. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    #31
  32. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    I've never played on Har Tru, what is it like?

    If it plays like the AO surface as it is, but clay, then they might as well; if they're going to slow down the surface that much, they might as well help out the players by installing a more knee-friendly surface. My toes curl whenever Djokovic does one of those stretch-slide gets.

    Wow, so simple!
     
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  33. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Remember also that the FO clay is unique.....they have a formula for what they put in there and it's a secret. We know it's crushed brick but we don't know the exact mixture .

    The footing is difficult as well as the bounce. Fed beat Nadal on clay just not at the FO.

    Sampras won the Italian Open.

    Connors beat Borg on Har Tru.

    I'm telling you joker and Nadal would have a tough time .
     
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  34. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Hartru is unique . It's difficult to describe.

    It's not simply the speed....it bounces much lower than red clay.

    The ball also bounces differently than a hard court. In fact I would say that the ball bounces higher on a hard court than Hartru .

    That's why I say it would help Federer out.

    You also do not slide nearly as much as red clay .....but more than a HC obviously.

    It's unique
     
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  35. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    So what you're saying is that it's basically the clay version of Plexicushion, but lower bouncing and better for the knees?

    If that's so, I can kinda see where you're coming from...AO surface is just terrible.
     
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  36. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    I guess the best way to describe Hartru is
    "diet red clay"....lol.

    It's similar in that they are both clay but the bounce is not quite as high, the speed is not quite as slow and the footing is not quite as difficult

    Does that make sense?

    It would neutralize a lot of Nadals advantages.

    People tend to over simplify and say "fast court". I don't think that is the problem at all .

    It's also the bounce of the ball.....I think Har Tru is "just right" for fed ....bounce is right height and speed is fast enough to help him but not to slow to help Nadal.
     
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  37. sdont

    sdont Legend

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    I'm not saying it's the same surface. It's just a different variety of clay, just like the USO and the AO are played on different varieties of HC.
     
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  38. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Not all clay is created equal.

    Fed has beaten Nadal on clay just not at the FO.

    Not all grass is created equal either and neither is all hardcourts.

    I really think Federer has the advantage on Hartru over both Joker and Nadal.
     
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  39. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    So basically, fast, firm and slick clay, no?

    And probably most importantly, less of a health hazard than HC.
     
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  40. GS

    GS Professional

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    The Aussies should lay down a carpet of artificial grass in Melbourne---they could adjust its speed with sand. Then they'd have a nice 4th surface. Rod Laver himself might even approve of this.
    But, will this ever happen? Nope.
     
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  41. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    Basically what Wimbledon is now since 2006. ;)
     
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  42. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    LOL.....not quite.

    Hartru is just different . For example Feds slice backhand is far more devastating on Har Tru than grass. His spin would just die on Nadal who's biggest weakness is the drop shot.
     
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  43. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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  44. BevelDevil

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    They can copy the Philippines and play on crushed shells.
     
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  45. Timbo's hopeless slice

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    I have never played on HAr-Tru in my life, lol. Never even seen it. I do, however, play on the AO surface every day and love it. Thing is, the AO organisers redo it every year, and specify teh slowest version of plexicushion. Our club has a much faster grade and it's a fantastic surface.

    However, I actually feel the AO version is distinctly different from the other three slams, and therefore no bad thing.
     
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  46. jackson vile

    jackson vile Legend

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    Wow, I wonder what that would be like. Any photos?
     
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  47. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    I'd love to see them accidentally get the fast stuff and have something similar to Paris in 2010.
     
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  48. OrangePower

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    Agreed. AO should be completely indoor, court surface similar to WTF. Many parts of the world play exclusively indoor during winter on similar surface (Canada, USA NE and other parts, northern Europe, etc). AO is played during northern hemi winter, so would be easy for viewers to identify with. Plus, would solve the Australian summer heat problem.

    I'm sure you agree. Unless of course you're a Rafa fan just looking to add another clay major for your boy.
     
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  49. VOLLEY KING

    VOLLEY KING Banned

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    Actually I completely agree.

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
    #49
  50. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    Artificial grass is a dreadful surface.
    Nice for the elderly perhaps but there's a reason it's not used in pro tennis - it's rubbish.
     
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